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Kaguya Otsutsuki vs Darth Vader

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Sirius_The_EM_Troll

Sirius_The_EM_Troll

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The Progenitor of Chakra vs The Chosen One of The Force

It appears the Black Hole of The Force (Count Dooku noted Sidious to be as such) would defeat Kaguya handily, now she faces his apprentice

Darth vader wip by lochapowa-d4mh3u8
Join the dark side

Kaguya Ootsutsukifsfs
Fight takes place on Planet Namek, the fighters are approximately 1 kilometer apart and are aware of the others presence.

Who wins? The Exterminator of the Jedi, or she who became Jubi?

Vader: 8

Kaguya: 5
 
EU Vader? Mmm... unless Vader can capture her forever in Telepathy which should be possible, because Vader is 80% of Sidious' power, meaning that Sidious can TP mindrape several billion people, then Vader should be able to do at least several hundred million...

However, there's no telling how effective it would be...

Vader has SAMM, but Kaguya can regenerate...

Hmm, Kaguya 6/10, unless Vader has shown Force Drain.
 
Wait, if Vader is 80% of Sidious, shouldn't be be Low 5-B, or at least 5-C?

Anyway, I'm voting for Vader because Hax and Speed > AP and Dura, and really the difference isn't too wide if Vader is 8/10's of Sidious, who is only marginally below Kaguya in AP and Dura

Vader 7/10 for me.
 
Sirius The EM Troll said:
I know this is off-topic, but if Vader is 80% of Sidious, doesn't that make him Low 5-B or 5-C?
Click to expand...
It needs to be addressed to the admins and it'll take more than Author statement to upgrade him.
 
Kaguya can regenrate from practically nothing, shown after sliding out of the Expansive truth seeking orb

I'm gonna give this to Kaguya for her dimension warping hax, and her regen. Vader's range w/ the force might be far but he's never been shown battling against morphing terrain which will keep him busy as Kaguya throws over tons of ash killing bones


+ Kaguya is immortal and Vader has almost no way of sealing her out
 
But how fast is her regen? Vader could figure it out.

The terrain won't warp very fast to Vader, due to the ungodly speed difference, and there is literally 0-chance of the ash bones hitting him.
 
But Vader doesn't have fast running speed, only fast reaction speed. If he does has fast running speed please provide a scan of him running around at lightspeed, not just dodging by stepping over or moving his head/ reacting with his hand.


The speed of Kaguya's regen is aat her own will. Shown coming out of the Expansive Truth Seeker Orb she appeared fine

Also theres something else Vader will have to deal with, Kaguya's reality warping. She can become the landscape and poke around with control of all the landscape, I dont think in that form Vader can even do anything to her
 
Kaguya warps the ground to be lava and nothing else. Vader gets PTSD and is killed while distracted by flashbacks.

More realistically he just falls into the lava and burns to death, seeing as how lava was 100% capable of massively injuring him in his battle with obi wan and he relies on his suit to keep him alive which I doubt would survive lava either.
 
Kaguya's lightning manipulation has great range:
Kaguya's_Might.png


And I dont know if its confirmed in this wiki yet but Kaguya IS the ten tails AND the shinju tree so this should count as well:

http://img.***********.com/m/49/52003841/d846290fc519771613f591dcff2bb42d.png
 
Why is any of this relevant when Vader's substantial speed advantage means that he can just use durability-negating force powers like mind hax and sub-atomic manipulation from the get-go?
 
Because Kaguya has counters to mind hax and has immortality regen

Vader will be wasting his energy trying to mind hax her

Her counters to mind hax:

Kaguya IS the Ten tails AND the Shinju tree

Rinne-Sharingan has mind hax itself

Genjutsu didn't work on Tailed Beasts (Which is what Kaguya is herself).
 
Kaguya's mind hax resistance is nothing compared to Vader's output, so to say.

Star Wars Mind Hax >>> Naruto Mind Hax. Perhaps someone could get The Everlasting into this thread?
 
I'm not sure being invulnerable to Genjutsu makes you immune to all mind hax, especially when Star Wars' mind hax allows you to influence the thoughts of trillions of people at once.
 
Maybe I'm just very unknowledgable about star wars, but I don't recall anyone having that kind of mind hax that would work in combat against an enemy with a strong will who is already fully focused and not caught by surprise.

Also, wouldn't slightly influencing the minds of a bunch of people be an aoe type of mind hax feat rather than speak to the direct 1v1 power of the mind hax? Especially if all those people were random civilins without significant power or the expectation that they might be under attack?
 
The Star Wars mind hax is just that it can control trillions of unaware people. Please inform me if if can be used in combat and if it has ever worked on higher beings, not just background characters.

And Infinite Tsukiyomi is like peak level mind hax, it makes you believe what ever the user wishes, by cannon Itachi used a weaker version (regular Tsukiyomi) to make his girlfriend start from the beggining of her life and believe that she had a family with Itachi all the way until death of old age all in just a few milliseconds.

Although not confirmed canon, Kaguya's backstory shows with ease before her power-upgrade she could erase memory from people(This can be confirmed throguh cannon seeing as how there must have been some way people came back from Infinite Tsukiyomi, and no one remembered so could have only been Kaguya's work)

And again, Kaguya is the ten tails and tailed beasts cannot be put under mind hax.
 
It seems like these threads are constantly made about naruto top tiers vs star wars top tiers and it always ends the same way.

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blo...-malaks-movement-and-force-drain-speed.19662/

This calc puts Malak, an inferior sith lord to Vader at 0.1562c, which translates to around mach 137,610 movement speed. This is roughly 46 times faster than Kaguya should be not taking into account his combat speed.

Using sub-atomic maniplutaion he can easily turn Kaguya's brain into a sponge and her Regenerationn has shown nothing capable from recovering from that. She isn't going to warp him into another dimension, as she can't even percieve his movements. The argument that a jinchuuriki cannot be put under mind hax is absurd, the bijuu can prevent genjutsu by realtering the flow of charkra, but no telekenetic in star wars has ever manipluated charka and instead directly affects the mind. This is going around in circles.
 
And yet every time I see a star wars thread people always talk about things that I've never seen happen in the movies or any other currently canon work. It's kind of silly that 'subatomic melting', 'mind hax', 'relativistic blitzing' etc is never the way any force user fight actually goes down.


They just end up swinging a saver around at what may be very high speeds but they do it while walking and leaping around at barely above peak human levels and straining to toss cars at each other. They don't see a bunch of normal people with laser guns and then instantly appear behind them in a bltiz that cuts everyone to pieces, or wave their hands and instantly evaporate or mind slave enemy combatants.


I must just be out of touch with the wierd shenanigans that goes on in the completely non canon EU.
 
Sirius The EM Troll said:
The underpowered movies are not to be used in Versus matches, dancer.
Click to expand...
Lol? Is that a site rule or something? Pretty sure that vader has a canon power key and that you didn't specify in your original post that this was EU vader.
 
Volundox said:
It seems like these threads are constantly made about naruto top tiers vs star wars top tiers and it always ends the same way.
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blo...-malaks-movement-and-force-drain-speed.19662/

This calc puts Malak, an inferior sith lord to Vader at 0.1562c, which translates to around mach 137,610 movement speed. This is roughly 46 times faster than Kaguya should be not taking into account his combat speed.

Using sub-atomic maniplutaion he can easily turn Kaguya's brain into a sponge and her Regenerationn has shown nothing capable from recovering from that. She isn't going to warp him into another dimension, as she can't even percieve his movements. The argument that a jinchuuriki cannot be put under mind hax is absurd, the bijuu can prevent genjutsu by realtering the flow of charkra, but no telekenetic in star wars has ever manipluated charka and instead directly affects the mind. This is going around in circles.
Click to expand...
"Her Regenerationn has shown nothing capable from recovering from that"

http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_689_6#gohere

"She isn't going to warp him into another dimension, as she can't even percieve his movements"

She doesnt have to lock on.

http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_679_16#gohere

http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_679_17#gohere

http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_680_3#gohere

"The argument that a jinchuuriki cannot be put under mind hax is absurd, the bijuu can prevent genjutsu by realtering the flow of charkra, but no telekenetic in star wars has ever manipluated charka and instead directly affects the mind. This is going around in circles."

1) She's not a jinchuuriki, she herself IS the ten tailed beast

2) Genjutsu uses chakra to affect the mind, might not be a one way ticket but its going to the same place. Naruto mind hax has shown to be rather impressive, please provide some notable mind hax feats other than quantity over quality.
 
1. Regenerating from matter which is destroyed is not the same from regenerating from matter which had been transmutated. This does not prove that kaguya can regenerate from being turned into sand or a brick.

2. I concede but he still dwarfs her in speed and she cannot possibly hope to percieve him or his attacks

3. Regardless of whether or not she is a tailed beast this does not mean she is immune to mind hax

4. Naruto's genjustu pales in comparrison to Star War's in every aspect and has not shown to be particularly impressive. Sidious can mind wipe trillions at once while it required Madara an entire series to mind slave millions, this is a show of quality and quantity. It dwarfs any naruto mind feats. Sidious was also able to subjugate 20 billion sentient life forms whilst also leeching off their life energy, and manipulating the minds of millions of seasoned fleet officers and soldiers. Darth Bane a weaker Sith Lord was also able to mentally overpower the mind of a seasoned healing jedi and this is a comparitively very weak feat.
 
Volundox said:
Darth Bane a weaker Sith Lord was also able to mentally overpower the mind of a seasoned healing jedi and this is a comparitively very weak feat.
Click to expand...
Bane also created the Thought Bomb, which used psychic energy to wipe out an entire planet's worth of people.
 
Kaguya being a tailed beast means she will always come back since she her self is chakra.

+ She can regenerate torn limbs: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...17-naruto-687-naruto-cuts-kaguyas-arm-off.png

And it's been shown that Ten tailed jinchuuriki can regenerate tons of destroyed body parts:

http://www5.narutoget.io/manga/read/naruto/640/8

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111115829/4341519-2798649761-sasuk.jpg

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/49/2335/14.png

I'll take back on whether Kaguya has immunity to mind hax but she surely does have high resistance to it. Rinne-sharingan has that perk of breaking out of one of the strongest types of mindhax, and either way many ninjas have basic methods to break out of mind hax.

Is Starwars mind hax even helpful in battle? That would be an evident difference between the mind hax of both universes. If a Star Wars character has to stop and focus to hold someone's mind then it's not really helpful in combat ( 1 v 1), especially when the opponent has high mind hax resistance. Again, mind wiping trillions is just quantity. Infinite Tsukiyomi's range is planetary, so it would catch EVERYTHING on the planet that doesnt have a legit rinnegan to catch it. What it does is powerful, hold people against their own will to even think for themselves. Infinite Tsukiyomi leeches energy off people without suspervision of the user as a plus.

And the weak feat you mentioned can just be that. A weak feat. If the jedi had no experience to counter mind hax that its a useless thing to bring up
 
The first point about Kaguya regenrating torn limbs is completely irrelevant unless it proves she can regenerate from being turned into an inamimate object. Unless you can prove she can regenerate from being turned into a loaf of bread, the Regenerationn feats you show are useless.

Rinne-sharingan can break out of Genjutsu, not force mindhax but genjutsu. They work completely differently so comparing the two is pointless and it is massive NLF to assume breaking out of the 'strongest types of mindhax' which is in reality only infinite tsukuyomi, which i have shown through star wars feats that infinite tsukuyomi is utterly incomparable to the mind hax of force users as sidious is capable of using his mind hax on trillions at a time and Vader is 80% of sidious per word of God.

You still haven't proven that Kaguya has any resistance to mind hax, but Revan, a comparable force user to Vader has been able to use mind hax on a Hutt, a species renown in star wars for their massive resistance to force based mind hax. You keep saying that using mind hax on trillions is just 'quantity' when it in of itself is a gargantuam feat, and sing the praises of infinite tsukuyomi, which is by far a weaker showing of 'quantity'. The mind hax of trillions was of a planet far far larger and with a far higher populace than the naruto world, its more impressive in every aspect. Sidious was also able to subjicate 20 billion people and then drain their energy, thats far more potent that making them have a few nice dreams.

The feat is a weak feat by star wars standards. The Jedi had an extremely large amount of experience and is impressive in its own right, its just weak in the grand scope of other more powerful sith lords mindraping billions at a time. As Aparajita mentioned before, the same sith lord i addressed in this point, wiped out the population of a planet in a single psychic attack called the mindbomb.
 
"The first point about Kaguya regenrating torn limbs is completely irrelevant unless it proves she can regenerate from being turned into an inamimate object. Unless you can prove she can regenerate from being turned into a loaf of bread, the Regenerationn feats you show are useless."

Since she can be in a form of chakra, backed-up by the fact that tailed beasts never die, that enough should be proof that she can come back from being turned into an "inanimate object". A truth seeking ball can also be counted as one, seeing as how its not a living organism and is stated to be created from nothing

+ Genjutsu is just a technique in which chakra is used to mess with mind hax, so he resistance to mind hax is still apparent.

Again, quantity. Sure, the feat might be TONS of people, but that doesnt even matter if the mind hax was weak. Infinite Tsukiyomi a striking resemblance to what you say the mind hax feat has. On a planetary range of all living things. It drains their energy,renders them immobilized, sucks out their personality and transforms them into White Zetsu. if Naruto earth is scaled to real earth, that'd be more than a trillion organisms taken under the genjutsu. I dont want to nitpick on exactly how many things Infinite Tsukiyomi can do but I must state again, quality over quantity.

Moving on, I completely acknowledge the feat of mindbomb but there's some info you're not telling me. Is it useful in a one on one battle? Wouldn't the usage of such a powerful attack leave the user weaping from lack of energy? Vader is calced at multi-continential so I'll just point again that his usage of the force on someone w/ mind-hax resistance AND far higher durability probably wont go his way.

It's just a NLF to say that the force can deal on someone with much higher durability.
 
JingleFloor said:
It's just a NLF to say that the force can deal on someone with much higher durability.
Click to expand...
She has no resistence to two very common of his techniques; Mind Hax (on a massive scale compared to her) and Subatomic Matter Maniuplation.

With those two things + the insane speed difference, Kaguya would become a brick before her mind had even registered the battle starting.
 
Whats to say subatmoic matter manipulation usage can make a user go above their AP? Vader's AP is much lower than Kaguya's durability. If the force ignores that its some NLF otherwise he should be at a much higher AP level.

2) The speed difference is quiet notable but it wont help out Vader if his force is too weak to match Kaguya's durability.

3) On the mind hax again, I've shown you guys multiple things showing she has high resistance to mind hax, if not total immunity.

There needs to be either some serious upgrades for the StarWars universe since their hax is wanked out of the sky or some serious debunking on their limits cause its NLF world over there.
 
Subatomic matter manipulation negates durability. It's not NLF. That's just how it works, like other hax.

This isn't wanking at all.
 
Might as well have Darth Vader's AP just be unknown if subatomic matter manipulation negates durability. With that power consider this match a mismatch stomp and keep it out of Kaguya's losses since its an unfair win.
 
There are plenty of characters who negate durability who aren't rated as Unknown because of it. Vader is rated as High 6-A through sheer power alone.
 
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