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A Battle Between Monkeys - Mori Jin vs Monkey D. Luffy

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I suppose this is Ch. 3 Jin.

Well, he scales to someone who scales to something that can shake the Earth by flying, so 1.06 Teratons, while Luffy backscales to 2.5 Teratons, so Luffy might have a slight advantage over here.

I know speed is equalized, but I see that Jin has 3 keys on his speed section and 6 keys in total so... what happens with that? Is the MHS+ rating from the first 3 chapters or what? I ask this because if speed is equalized Luffy could use speed amps but if he blitzes a MFTL+ in speed equal this won't be added since it's unfair against Jin who'd be naturally faster.

His Lifting Strength section is more of the same. What's up with that? Is the 3 keys division because the second key ratings goes to his Monkey King Mode? If so, then Luffy'd have no problem considering the vast difference between his stats and Jin's first key stats in speed and LS.

Okay, time to compare them. If Jin has only his first key abilities available, then the match should easily go to Luffy. Since Jin's style is mostly physical, Luffy's body will prevent him from getting a lot of harm. Things like Blood Manipulation wouldn't work since Luffy's veins are made of rubber as shown when he uses Gear Second. In fact, Bongchym Nah Style does the same thing Luffy no-sells when doing it on his own, so it's a non-factor. Pressure Points might or might not work. Luffy's body is rubber in its entirety, making his bones, muscles and as above mentioned veins, rubber, so it's highly possible that his pressure points are also made of rubber, and as such would bounce the strike back. But take it with a grain of salt.

Jin's best bet seems to be his Dura Negation and possibly his Spatial Manipulation (if this one serves any combative purpose outside of being a side-effect), but Luffy can counter this with his own Dura Negation and his Future Sight, allowing him to comfortably dodge any attack and cripple Jin with Goken if for some reason he doesn't just punch him into submission.

Note that Luffy seems to have more stamina as well. That and more range since Jin's continental range comes from a weapon used in Monkey King Mode which is restricted here.

Both are comparable in skill (tho I could argue that while Jin's adaptation is better, Luffy's unpredictability counters that a bit) but Jin holds the experience advantage. Though he's reckless while Luffy's brute but not completely idiot so he'd get the mindset advantage over here.

In Jin's section it's noticed that his acupuncture techniques don't work against reinforced skin, armor or something like that. Luffy has Armament Haki to block piercing damage and if similar abilities are Jin's weakness, then it won't do any harm.

Well, Luffy takes this. He seems to be physically better, more tougher, has the correct set of abilities to keep Jin at bay and could take advantage of his resiliency to win this.
 
@The Calaca

The dragons Jin scale to who "shake the earth by flying" are fodder in the GoH High 6-C, Low 6-B hierarchy and this Jin is far superior in scaling to that by a hefty amount, not counting his stat boosting or anything.I think the AP here is at the very least equal if not far in Jin's favor with .

Chapter 3 base Jin is MHS+.

Chapter 3 base Jin has Class E lifting strength I believe

I'm not sure Luffy's body being rubber would matter here.Jin's accupuncture and Bong chim stuff are simply activated by punching by this point and I don't think Luffy's body being rubberlike would grant it special properties against this stuff naturally unless he has no blood or veins whatsoever. But either way he has other uses for it like Stat Amping, Pain removal or some sort of pain head touch thing.

I don't think Luffy's Dura Negation would do anything to Jin that he hasn't already experienced by this time who survived multiple explosions and dura negation attacks plus they would have to hit Jin in the first place.Future Sight could probably be a threat but a far weaker Jin was able to counter pure precognition as well with technique so it probably wouldn't work for long.

I highly doubt Luffy has more stamina but they seem to be comparable.Jin's pain negation and healing are a bonus here but Jin is pretty crazy in the stamina department by himself.He survived rebounds that were meant to kill him, uses a martial art that puts a strain on his body and causes self destruction, survived eating a divine pellet which can kill even people at the peak of martial arts, was capable of fighting with severe impalements and these were all examples from the top of my head and non of these involved healing or pain negation.Luffy does have better range tho.

I would say Jin is far superior in the skill department personally but Ikki made me hate comparing skills in vs match ups so lets say their equal for now.Chapter 3 Jin is far less reckless than his Chapter 1 and 2 self due to having some of his old memories, and he is more serious and doesn't detract from a mission.Hell even Chapter 1 and 2 Jin weren't really reckless either unless getting disqualified for protecting others is considered reckless.

This weakness comes from Jin's fight with Ardun who was a High 4-C made out of Barbadium which is the strongest metal in Heaven. Jin bypassed that by hitting harder at the same spot them putting Yeoui in the crack and expanding it.Don't worry that was Monkey King Jin but Jin has accupuncture attacks that doesn't need to penetrate so that wouldn't be a problem, plus lifting strength and stat amps should help that.

Overall I say Jin should take this with some difficulty.His sheer power and ability to stat amp,(speed,durability and AP) accelerated development, pain negation and durability negation should bring him out on top.
 
The feat Jin's scaling to is baseline Low 6-B so the dragons that do that can't be fodder to High 6-Cs. It's plain wrong.

So Luffy can get speed amps and blitz Jin and it'd be added. Okay.

Does he? It seems like something the Monkey King Mode would grant considering the "stellar status" of it and the disposition of the speed section.

What stuff are you talking about? Luffy's almost invulnerable to blunt force against people comparable and even somewhat stronger than him. Damaging his inner organs is still a valid option since Rokuougan worked against him, but something like trying to make his veins to explode won't happen if it's just inflating or increasing the blood pressure to make it happen. He does that with Gear Second and I could even say that by using it he could try to regulate his own blood flow if it's interrupted.

Experiencing something doesn't mean you're unharmed by it. If Jin has faced people who can blow him up from the insides then he has experience, but not necessarily a resistance to it. He hasn't such thing so Luffy can use Goken just fine.

What kind of precognition? I mean how good was it.

I see nothing on Jin's profle that suggest he has stamina comparable to Luffy's. He has abilities to ignore pain and healing, but how good his healing is? Every feat you listed are things Luffy has done before in most of his fights. He has fought for 12 hours against someone who was basically stomping him, with 2/3 of those hours having a hole in his stomach. Has fought with severe impalementes, fought armies, people who can crush his organs or impale him with the fingers, and he scales to people who, in comparable terms (or even at natural disadvantage like Ace was against Jinbe) fought for 5 days straight.

But he'd look for emotion if Luffy shows to be a worthy fighter, right? I think Luffy's by far one of the most comparable fighters in the wiki he could find lol.

Luffy's style is still something Jin couldn't not only anticipate but replicate. His fighting style is completely improvised and he uses his physiology to be almost unpredictable (plus he can even bypass precognition by being actually unpredictable).

Luffy has his own stat amps as well, and he grows better at fighting as well. They seems to be even in most fields, but Luffy's Dura Negation doesn't need contact like Jin's apparently does, plus he can actually see the future and anticipate Jin's moves before he even thinks them or use a constant attack speed amp to overwhelm him on the spot.

Jin's prediction need to make contact with Luffy. If the contact is lost, then he won't predict the next movement. Plus, Luffy can notice that Jin's doing that since he'll see that Jin's predicting his move, so he'd aim for the side he dodges/attack to put Jin out of stance.

Not to forget that Luffy's precognition is what makes him able to react to attacks from people who's much faster than him.
 
@The Calaca

The feat is performed casually by dragons and dragons are fodder to above average Borrowed Power users who are fodder to Commissioners and Bishops which Jin scales to.That's what I mean.

Sure.

Base Jin is able to carry Yeoui so yes.It technically should be Class Y though but I'll bring that up some other time in the GoH discussion thread.

Jin doesn't inflate anything or increase blood flow with accupuncture to my knowledge.He seals blood paths, paralyze, block arteries or makes his opponent feel from the battle all at 1 time only few involve blood paths or veins. He also has an instant death technique as well.

True but resisting explosion manipulation is something difficult to determine already and 90% of the time is taken as durability.

Literal precognition from this guy who read the future but couldn't find anyways to counter/dodge or block Jin's attacks and techniques.

All the feats I listed are from Chapter 1 and 2 Jin with alot of them being on the brink of death before said feats. His healing can heal on a level nano technology can't and bypass regen negation.Luffy might have the stamina advantage time length wise (at least for this form of Jin) because he fought for long periods but I don't think damage wise he's superior here and as stated before all of those examples I listed didn't involve healing or pain negation which would naturally be another bonus here.

But he'd look for emotion if Luffy shows to be a worthy fighter, right? I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.Jin doesn't really care if his opponent is a worthy fighter in general and he definitely wouldn't care when he's willing to kill.I don't know how skilled Luffy is but Jin is considered one of the best of the best in the skill department on the wiki and even outside it.

That's exactly what Jin is capable and did (but he obviously can't copy Gomu Gomu shit).Jin was so unpredictable he himself was comepletely shocked by his own natural actions in combat.

I don't know Jin's amps are instant and all around and once again he countered precog with skill so I don't know if Luffy's precog would suffice here.

Jin has Instinctive Reaction, it just hasn't been added yet. Chapter 1 and 2 Jin is the one with Analytical Prediction via contact.

Chapter 1 and 2 Jin reacted and countered multiple opponents who blitzed him without analytical prediction but sadly that doesn't mean shit in VS matches or VS debating and I hate it
 
Just to clear a few things up,

GoH Low 6-Bs scale to fodder dragons. The scaling chain goes like this:

Fodder dragons << named dragons < Commissioners <= Mori Jin

As for the speed, they're divided into his chapter 1, chapter 2, and chapter 4 onwards. He's MHS+ in this key.

Mori's LS in this is is Class E for being able to hold Yeoui even in base form, Yeoui being his staff that can grow to the size of planets. However, he can't use Yeoui in base.

Mori's prediction isn't limited to body contact, that's just his most effective method. He can very well predict movements based on limited experience with the person he's fighting.

Also, Mori's acupuncture works on the cellular level, so Luffy's body being rubber means little in the grand scheme of things.
 
They are comparable then. The AP difference is hardly existent since Luffy backscales to a feat 2.5x stronger than that so that should make them comparable.

Such death technique isn't listed, or at least I can't find it as such. Luffy can increase his blood pressure at will. Jin can't exactly destroy his veins and blocking the path would only stop him until he pumps the blood to restart it.

Both are even in stats, so an internal explosion will do a terrible thing to Jin no matter what. It was revised that this kind of abilities don't ignore durability to the point where a 7-B can harm a 3-B with it, but these two are comparable with Jin being at best slightly stronger, so Goken will work just fine since Jin's not obsecenly above Luffy's power.

I don't get that part. Can you post the scans or something like that?

Jin can heal, yes, but you have listed nothing that exceeds Luffy's ballpark in the stamina department. He has been impaled, dried out and fought while losing lot of blood, while handicapped by a poison that would have kill him. Can fight back despite not only facing someone who's stronger than him but can crush his organs meanwhile he's suffering the strain from his own techniques to the point of being unable to move and still stand up and beat him with a barrage of punches.

I meant that Jin looks for good fights, well, Luffy is one of the characters that, the way I see it, is one of the most similar to him in the array of abilities and stats. I don't see anything really impressive on his skill section outside of copying fighting styles and combining them with Taekwondo, which is something a lot of characters can do. Luffy's style is something that he can only do because his powers are unique to him. Jin can't stretch his body or bounce physical strikes back like Luffy, so while he could copy the way Luffy punches, he couldn't use its full potential since Luffy uses the snap-back momentum to gain the peak potential of his fruit.

Being unpredictable would be enough to any Proficient Observation user, but since Advanced users are watching the future, Luffy will see Jin moving in an unpredictable way. He's not sensing his intent nor reading his mind now. He's actively watching what Jin will do few seconds before he even starts running at him.

Luffy has countered precognition before with unpredictability and while he had Precognition himself, he couldn't hold a candle to Katakuri who was stomping him, and he could keep up with him once he developed his own Precognition to the same level. Because that's something I didn't mentioned before, but Haki can grow stronger and better during a fight, and Luffy has shown to be able to do so during moments of stress.

Okay, but until it gets added, Jin doesn't have it. Which means the match will be soon outdated anyway (mostly because Luffy will eventually get upgrades as well :p).

@Sir Ovens

Well, such scaling chain doesn't seem that big to me, but okay. It just makes me think that both are comparable.

Then Luffy will definitely hold the speed advantage eventually. If you add that to precognition, Jin will have a bad time with it, even if he has faced people like that before. It's not like it makes you invulnerable against such circunstances.

Okay, so he holds LS.

Well, he'd need to face Luffy for some time to get experience since like I said, he improvises and adapts to the opponent while fighting.

Okay, then his acupuncture will be a problem.


Luffy can also use forcefields (which is what he uses to apply Goken) for offensive and defensive purposes. Since both are comparable, Luffy'd have less problems to defend from Jin, and if Jin gets close enough the forcefield will do the Goken job to blow part of his body up. IDK if his healing would heal a severed leg or arm.
 
Most of Mori's durability and stamina feats are on his page under feats. Even before remembering he was the Monkey King, Mori was able to defeat tons of opponents before passing out.

I'd list them out now but I'm kind of in a rush so you're gonna have to look through Mori's feat list on his page.
 
Because I'm reading it and I'm in the 3rd chapter and the 2nd chapter had nothing to do with Jin while the first one showed him as an average student.

I might be reading it wrong, IDK
 
Oh, I see the confusion.

Chapters are divided by arcs, with chapter 1 being the regional GoH tournament arc and so on and so forth. I should honestly rename the keys according to their arcs.
 
Oh, I see. I thought he growed that strong in three chapters only.

How many chapters are until the 3rd? Because now I don't feel like reading it :p.
 
Literally 2 arcs. About like 175 chapters.
 
@The Calaca It isn't labeled on his profile like most of Jin's techniques, you can see that when compared to his profile on the GoH wiki.And the attack isn't related to blood, it's a pierce to the heart on a nano level or he can alternatively leave his opponent in a suspended state if he wants.

What's Goken?

Sorry, Jin countered this guy's precog after evolving his martial arts mid battle and he tried to use precognition but the future only showed Jin destroying him with any action he would take.

No, joke that's Jin performed nearly all of that besides being handicapped by poison since he's already resistant to the stuff naturally.

Luffy making the best out his DF is tight and all but that doesn't mean much regarding sheer skill since it's still ultimately relying on an ability.Jin's skill is recognized because of what he's done with them such as evolving his fighting still against Park Ilpyo who uses a martial art that was Mori Jin's martial art but better but Jin evolved his techniques mid fight while stealing Park Ilpyo's and using other martial arts to utimately almost win...until Park ilpyo went 9 tailed fox mode which turned him from a tier 8 to a tier 6.Or Jin being able to spot weak points of his enemies, countering precognition with sheer skill, instantly copying and evolving other martial arts, copy weapon based attacks and could use theme without a weapon at all etc..I can't do it justice just how skilled Jin actually is but he is considered comparable to Ikki in the skill department.

That's what Dean does and Jin dealt with him.

I mean it's accepted so why not debate it? I could see if it wasn't accepted and I try to make a CRT for it but that's not the case here, it's only not on the profile.
 
I conceded that the acupuncture will work above.

Goken is aura that destroys the body from the inside.

But... that doesn't count for this version of Jin. Dean made his debut on the chapter 346 and the third key takes things up to the 175, so that feat doesn't count.

Again, that's something Luffy can take as well. So Jin can heal and Luffy can last way more time.

Now I'm not sure how many of those things actually happened in the three first arcs, to be honest.

If it's accepted then that's okay.
 
Is it something Luffy uses in character?

This Jin has the same skill as the Jin who countered precognition because Jin stagnated in his training.The only difference between Jin here and Jin in his Dean fight is tiering which was irrelevent, that's why I said earlier Luffy's precog wouldn't work for long meaning this Jin wouldn't have adapted to it yet.Jin should be able to perform the same skill feat here.

ok.

All of those examples were from Chapter 1 and 2 besides the precog one.
 
He would use it if Jin's too troublesome. He recently mastered to fight against people stronger than him, so he'd use it.

Tier difference or not it doesn't matter. If he hasn't show such skill, you can't assume he'd do the same. Especially since there are 150+ chapters in between. It's like me saying that Luffy'd counter Katakuri's Precog in his second key because he doesn't increase his skill despite being a clear difference between both versions of the character. Or Goku using his paralysis technique in the ToP because he uses it in the same tier he was at the time.
 
It was outright stated that Mori got weaker post time-skip. He didn't train for 17 years and was much weaker martially. Mori pre timeskip will always be more skilled than his post timeskip self, that's why the precog argument was made.
 
I find it wrong anyway. If he hasn't done it before then there's no reason to believe he could do the same. Experience is a thing, and even if he was a better martial artist before, he'd need such feat on his younger version to even grant such thing here.
 
@The Calaca

Ok

This isn't anything like those cases, Jin was outright stated to be weaker than his pre timeskip self and this is something Jin naturally would've evolved into.Him himself acknowledges the difference between his pretimeskip and posttimeskip self and seen how he relied to much on power of the Monkey form.
 
It's weird. I can't find a single reference on the GoH wikia about the fight between Mori and Dean.
 
This seems interesting match-up. Also, when against a strong opponent, Luffy can push and advance his Haki further than it was before. Going from being unable to keep up with Katakuri's advanced precognition to reaching that same level and seeing the same future as Katakuri does in one fight. So, if push against the wall, Luffy can develop his Haki further to keep up.

And if Luffy has problem nailing Mori due to him adapting to his Precognition in the beginning, he probably might try another option which is to transform into Snake-Man, which is helpful against highly agile characters due to his fists not only being able to change directions but also accelerate each and every time it does.
 
There's also the issue of Jeahbongchim acupuncture, which is a direct amp to Mori's speed and AP. He can go up to 8x his base AP before succumbing to the rebound that happens after the time limit is up.

This not counting the fact that Mori can paralyse Luffy or cause him to experience immense pain with acupuncture.
 
He is. If you look at his earlier key, you can see the tiers his amps put him in. I really really need to clean up Mori's profile to make it easier to read.
 
He should still be allowed to amp 2x, which he's known to do. The 8x is the absolute limit and he will pass out after doing so. But I'll restrict the amps that put him above Low 6-B.
 
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