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Son Goku (Cell Saga) vs Post Crisis Wonder Woman

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To @Yojimbo, she probably has access to the godforce. Also, Goku's adaptability isn't anything special. Most fighters have that if they have above average fighting abilities. Heck, most boxers can adapt in combat. It's not reactive evolution like Doomsday or 682.

To @AF, Goku definitely doesn't have more experience than WW. She's been in more wars and serious battles than even present Goku. Also, just like Goku, she was bred for combat and trained since she was a kid. The only difference is that she was made by gods and had formal training.

That being said, as you can tell, giving this to WW as the only advantage Goku has over her is instant transmission. Ki blasts will be reflected by her bracelets, which reflected even Omega Beams, her atom splitting sword would let her defeat even SPC if she used it, the godforce is basically her super Saiyan, her magic tiara slit Supes' throat, and her lasso is indestructible iirc. So yeah, the Amazon wins.
 
Wonder woman takes this she has too much experience in combat compared to goku, has all the equipment to take him down and will most likely figure out how instant transmission works and make sure he can't use it.
 
I'll go with Goku, due to Instantaneous Mouvement and his unnatural adapting capabilities, he's not an above average fighter and has at the very least better training than her(trained by king kai who's thousands of years old, kami who's also hundreds of years old and master roshi), and due to his sayian genes he can addapt to her style and over come it withing the first moves she make.

And the Range advantage he have on her due to Ki blasts, which even if they are deflected Goku can use them as distraction.
 
For Goku, he might spam Shunkan Ido for either evasive or to get in close combat with Wonder Woman. And was Goku going to fight her normally or with his transformation?
 
The real cal howard said:
To @Yojimbo, she probably has access to the godforce. Also, Goku's adaptability isn't anything special. Most fighters have that if they have above average fighting abilities. Heck, most boxers can adapt in combat. It's not reactive evolution like Doomsday or 682.

To @AF, Goku definitely doesn't have more experience than WW. She's been in more wars and serious battles than even present Goku. Also, just like Goku, she was bred for combat and trained since she was a kid. The only difference is that she was made by gods and had formal training.

That being said, as you can tell, giving this to WW as the only advantage Goku has over her is instant transmission. Ki blasts will be reflected by her bracelets, which reflected even Omega Beams, her atom splitting sword would let her defeat even SPC if she used it, the godforce is basically her super Saiyan, her magic tiara slit Supes' throat, and her lasso is indestructible iirc. So yeah, the Amazon wins.
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Well she can deflect ki blast with her bracelets, but can whe deflect a kamahameha with them? Not to mention goku can go super saiyan at any time in this fight.
 
I'm going to respond to the last three people. Can't quote all at once

  • To @Superkryptonian, Yes. Any Kamehameha<Omega Beams in every way. Plus, SSJ is canceled out or even surpassed by the Godwave.
  • Goku hasn't been shown capable of spamming IT yet. And it's not like WW hasn't dealt with teleporters before. It's not even that good of a teleporting technique in the first place. Goku is the only person I've seen that people argue that teleportation is the deciding factor. Besides Sans.
  • Wonder Woman still has better training. She's trained with warrior people from the times of Greek Mythology and the gods of Greek mythology until she was an adult. Goku only trained with Kami for 3 years, and King Kai for eight. Not to mention that age doesn't always translate to skill. Amazons and Greek Gods are ancient and made for fighting. Kami was beaten by Piccolo who was only 3 at the time, and King Kai is good for training because of the gravity on his planet, along with the spirit bomb and kaioken.
  • His adapting isn't a special ability. He's just a great fighter. I'll bet that Wonder Woman does just as good of a job at adapting.
 
@Real Cal Howard

-Evidence?

-Actually he kinda did (cough cough IT Kamehameha)

-Training with people from the times of greek mythology is pretty good yeah, except Goku has trained with people who have been dead and training in the Otherwrold their entire post-mortem "life" when he died for the second time and Kami was beaten because he was much weaker, (having hosted a human body and not using his real body)

-He also has higher ap and dura, being Large Star+ rather than Large Star, a range advanatage, and Godwave can make her go insane, making her experience go to boot. Also, she needs to mediate to use Godwave, no?

-Also she doesn't always have her sword, the op should specify if she has that
 
The real cal howard said:
I'm going to respond to the last three people. Can't quote all at once
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Well both of them are born from a warrior race, so having experience in fighting is kind of cancelled since goku's only desire in life is to train and fight.
 
Also, as a side note, goku has also adapted when it came to his fights, like when he exploited frieza's inability to sense energy, or when he got through hit's time skip for some time, or when he fooled cell to think he was firing a regular kamehameha, but it became the IT kamehameha, and also wearing out golden frieza when he was getting overpowered.
 
@Data. First, I'm glad to have you respond to me.

She has blocked Omega Beams before in canon. Omega beams are not only haxxer, but stronger.

The warp Kamehameha wasn't a spam. Goku teleported near Cell while everyone was freaking out thinking Goku would destroy the planet.

Other than the kais, who else did he train with in the afterlife. Even then, the kais specialize in creation. Not destruction and war. Don't get me wrong though. They're powerful. Besides I doubt they have been dead as long as the gods have been alive. Also, that still didn't stop Kami from stomping Yamcha.

Point taken, although isn't the Magesson feat on the higher end? However, range is reflected, so Goku would have to get close, in which WW has superior range due to lasso and tiara.

Don't we always use them at their strongest?
 
And I only mentioned the IT kamehameha caus3 he tricked cell, who's an intelligent being mind you. So in a way, goku can fool wonder woman with this like how he did with cell.
 
I'm aware. Shooting them from far away gives Wonder Woman time to either dodge or even better, reflect. In order for Goku to do any serious damage, he'd have to get up close, where Wonder Woman should have the advantage due to h2h vs weapons.

Threatening to destroy the planet and then not doing it would trick anybody. And competent yes, intelligent no for Cell. Most of the admins here are probably smarter than Cell. Cell's intelligence wouldn't affect much regardless of the winner anyway. WW probably has the same level. Any hero on Goku's strength would've went to him to stop him, which WW would do. IT wouldn't be as effective on a moving opponent. And again, Goku (and Sans) is the only opponent I see having teleportation being the deciding factor. If teleportation isn't the deciding factor for all those other opponents, why for Goku?

On a side note, noticed that you made this thread and are heavily debating for Goku. Why'd you make it if you already have a decided victor?
 
@Howard thanks,

They are haxier, (Greatly haxier), but the AP of the beams should be about that of Darkseid's right? In his profile he doesn't have the + at the end like SSJ Goku

hmmm, true, although it does show that he would use them when he needs them most and its really hard to say that he wouldn't know when not to spam it, espically since at the Cell Games he had mastered SSJ to the point of almost wasting no ki in that form, making the IT much less of a probelm for Goku.

Well in canon we really don't know, we just know the metamorans (Creators of the fusion dance), that said, while they were individually weak, Goku comments that their strength and skills as fusions is pretty high. As for the kais, in canon he only trained with King Kai I think, that said, while he is primaryily a creation kai, he also has been watching his sector since thousands of years, and is recognized by even the guardians of multiple planets who have existed for quite a while, as a tutor of grand power.

Well, yeah, but wasn't he defeated because he hold back way too much, thinking that kami was just a normal human?

hmmm true, although Goku can get extremely close using his short burst speed advantage (Assuming that at that point, Wonderwoman still needed her jet to get to places, so I may be wrong) and even if he can't use superior short burst speed, IT could help.

Yes, but we generally only use standard equipment
 
@Super generally speaking, the OP should probably only talk for the side with less votes, not really a rule, but just to seem less bias
 
@Allan he meant that Goku hasn't developed his fighting style to spam IT at the Cell Saga yet I believe.
 
SomebodyData said:
@Allan he meant that Goku hasn't developed his fighting style to spam IT at the Cell Saga yet I believe.
Click to expand...

This is what happens when your tired and don't read properly lol sigh.
 
The real cal howard said:
I'm aware. Shooting them from far away gives Wonder Woman time to either dodge or even better, reflect. In order for Goku to do any serious damage, he'd have to get up close, where Wonder Woman should have the advantage due to h2h vs weapons.

Threatening to destroy the planet and then not doing it would trick anybody. And competent yes, intelligent no for Cell. Most of the admins here are probably smarter than Cell. Cell's intelligence wouldn't affect much regardless of the winner anyway. WW probably has the same level. Any hero on Goku's strength would've went to him to stop him, which WW would do. IT wouldn't be as effective on a moving opponent. And again, Goku (and Sans) is the only opponent I see having teleportation being the deciding factor. If teleportation isn't the deciding factor for all those other opponents, why for Goku?

On a side note, noticed that you made this thread and are heavily debating for Goku. Why'd you make it if you already have a decided victor?
Click to expand...
I'm only debating with you because you're claiming that wonder woman is the only person out of these 2 that has combat experience even though the same can be said for goku.
 
Hax resistance =\= durability at all. Wonder Woman's bracelets resisting the Omega Beams doesn't matter in this case unless they have the same or greater AP as Kamehamehas do. And going by the profiles they do not.

Wonder Woman being a creature bred and made for war may make her an amazing fighter, but Goku has an identicle background as a saiyan. On top of the fact that he has been trained by gods who have experienced almost every war and struggle of combat in the history of the earth or even galaxy or universe. Also Goku clearly is more dedicated to martial arts than Wonder Woman, given that is all he really cares about and what he dedicates his life to. Being good at nearly nothing else. So I am pretty sure he is a better fighter all around.

I am not quite sure what the exact requirement for being Large Star+, but since this is usually made to denote the higher ends of a particular tier, I think using 6 x 10^43 joules would be a rather fair guess contrast to the highest end being 2.24 x 10^45.

Using this likely lowball and the accepted value for Superman who Wonder Woman scales from, Goku would be twice as strong as she is.

So Goku having likely superior fighting skill, better range, usage of IT and being at least twice as strong, I think he'd take this.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
Wonder woman takes this she has too much experience in combat compared to goku, has all the equipment to take him down and will most likely figure out how instant transmission works and make sure he can't use it.
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Well like i said to howard, the combat experience can also be said for goku since it's in his blood to train and get stronger.
 
Howard presented some real good reasons for Wonder Woman. She just had the nastier hax. I don't see how Goku wins.
 
Superkryptonian said:
I'm only debating with you because you're claiming that wonder woman is the only person out of these 2 that has combat experience even though the same can be said for goku.
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I never stated that Goku has no combat experience. I just stated that he didn't have more experience.

@Ryu. I don't know if it was True Darkseids OB's or not. Also, caring more about fighting doesn't always mean more experience. WW has been in more crisises (crises?) than Goku. She also has formal warrior training, unlike Goku up until KK. He mostly just trains himself.

Regardless, I don't have much else to say, so I'll let this be
 
@Cal well if you do not know the context of the Omega Beam feat at all, I don't think you should be using it as an argument point. And caring about martial arts was not my only point. It was that he dedicates pretty much his entire life into training unlike WW. And he has been trained by people who undeniably have vastly more knowledge and experience than Wonder Woman.

Also I said we do not know the number on Goku. But since "+" is always used to denote the higher end of tier, 2x is at least a decent lowball.
 
I could turn that back around and say that the Greek Gods and Amazons have vastly more knowledge and experience than Goku. They probably have more knowledge and experience of Goku's trainers too. And WW has dedicated her entire pre-Justice-League life to fighting. She's basically a Spartan.

Speaking of which, why does he have the plus? Is it scaling from Frieza or Cell?

Also, just remembered this is Cell Saga. He isn't trained by the kais yet.
 
@Cal you can go on about fighting skill all you want. But not only is there still the issue of range and IT usage but the strength gap as well. And Goku was still trained by Popo, Kami and King Kai at that point. All of those having the level of experience I was referring to.
 
Only reason I brought up fighting skill is because other people gave their vote due to experience. Plus, all three except debatably king kai are neither as skilled or as strong as the greek gods, but i'll drop fighting skill entirely. I covered range already and IT, but you have me on the strength gap. The only thing that'll give her the win is her sword, which she should probably have to make this fair since her only other advantage (her speed) was taken away (not that I have a problem with that, as it makes it fair).
 
The real cal howard said:
I could turn that back around and say that the Greek Gods and Amazons have vastly more knowledge and experience than Goku. They probably have more knowledge and experience of Goku's trainers too. And WW has dedicated her entire pre-Justice-League life to fighting. She's basically a Spartan.

Speaking of which, why does he have the plus? Is it scaling from Frieza or Cell?

Also, just remembered this is Cell Saga. He isn't trained by the kais yet.
Click to expand...
Well that's just an assumption that the amazons have more combat experience than goku, also master roshi, mr. Popo, kami, and king kai had different types of training, and the + is scaling off of cell, i did put cell saga goku on the title.
 
It's not an assumption. They have literally dedicated their thousands of years of life to training, similar to Goku. Roshi has done the same but for lesser time and spent a good amout of time being a hermit, Mr. Popo and Kami are...iffy as we don't know if they trained. We just know that they are very competent in battle. Kami rarely came down from his lookout iirc. King Kai is a different story though. But I said to @Ryu that I won't bring up fighting skill again, so I won't.

By the scaling, I meant if he is + becuase he is >>>>>Frieza, or if he's just <Super Perfect Cell
 
The real cal howard said:
Only reason I brought up fighting skill is because other people gave their vote due to experience. Plus, all three except debatably king kai are neither as skilled or as strong as the greek gods, but i'll drop fighting skill entirely. I covered range already and IT, but you have me on the strength gap. The only thing that'll give her the win is her sword, which she should probably have to make this fair since her only other advantage (her speed) was taken away (not that I have a problem with that, as it makes it fair).
Click to expand...
Well that first part i can't argue. The sword would be considered useless since goku can block it with his ki-enhanced finger like he did with future trunks's sword.
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
Didn't batman once state that WonderWoman is the best melee fighter in the world?
Click to expand...
I think he only said, "who's faster, usain bolt or brice lee," when comparing superman and wonderwoman's speed.
 
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