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Son Goku (Cell Saga) vs Post Crisis Wonder Woman

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The real cal howard said:
It's not an assumption. They have literally dedicated their thousands of years of life to training, similar to Goku. Roshi has done the same but for lesser time and spent a good amout of time being a hermit, Mr. Popo and Kami are...iffy as we don't know if they trained. We just know that they are very competent in battle. Kami rarely came down from his lookout iirc. King Kai is a different story though. But I said to @Ryu that I won't bring up fighting skill again, so I won't.

By the scaling, I meant if he is + becuase he is >>>>>Frieza, or if he's just <Super Perfect Cell
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He's just below SPC
 
Oh, well i apologize for thinking that was an assumption, though you are right about popo and kami since we never seen them train. King kai is obviously another story since we don't know his age.
 
@Cal being the overseers of almost everything that has happened on earth, including all it's wars and combats, they should at least have somewhat comparable experience to the gods. King Kai as well being he does the same but for the North Quadrant. But once again this point isn't too relevant.

The only major thing you've brought up for range is a feat you admitted to not knowing the context of. Those attacks plus IT would still be advantages. Despite IT not being an absolute game changer.
 
I still have to go for Goku, his small but still superior ap and dura kinda give him the advantage here
 
First things first, we're still friends even when debating, right?

Now onto the big part. Darkseid's weakest is at worst barely < Goku and still casually blocked by WW. Regardless of not knowing the full context of it, it should be enough to reflect Kamehamehas.
 
In my opinion argueing who has a better battle experience is dumb because just as you can say "She trainedand fought with the best in DC"

I could just say "Well Gou trained and fought with the best in DB"

Thing is . . . WHAT DO ANY OF THESE THINGS MEAN TO THE OTHER PIECE OF FICTION

It is impossible to know how is a better fighter when everything they do is losely based on real life I mean one of Goku's "Notable Techniques" is THE FULL F**CKING NELSON

Nothing thats what so in my opinion it's semantics and could go one for literally eternity.

The best way to do this is look at all there Abilities and Teqniques aswell as equipment.

And in my opinion Goku has way more teqniques to use, one example is the after image technique which is similar to the plan Batman (The god himself) has come up with to beat Diana in a fight.Also Diana is extreamly pron to rage and this is a almost garanted way to piss her off and make her attacks more predictable(this is something thats has been proven time and time again) and even if Ki attacks are completely out (which I don't think the are) it's not that big a problem as proven by the original DB they don't need Ki attack to win a fight.

Also from what i've seen for Godforce to activate the braclets need to come off Goku will IT kamehameha if it needs to be done.

Sidenot which Goku is this because anything past Cell Saga is an easy victory in my opinion because the AP gap is Huge
 
The real cal howard said:
First things first, we're still friends even when debating, right?

Now onto the big part. Darkseid's weakest is at worst barely < Goku and still casually blocked by WW. Regardless of not knowing the full context of it, it should be enough to reflect Kamehamehas.
Click to expand...
Yeah were cool, sorry if i was being rude to in anyway shape or form.
 
RadicalMrR said:
In my opinion argueing who has a better battle experience is dumb because just as you can say "She trainedand fought with the best in DC"

I could just say "Well Gou trained and fought with the best in DB"

Thing is . . . WHAT DO ANY OF THESE THINGS MEAN TO THE OTHER PIECE OF FICTION

It is impossible to know how is a better fighter when everything they do is losely based on real life I mean one of Goku's "Notable Techniques" is THE FULL F**CKING NELSON

Nothing thats what so in my opinion it's semantics and could go one for literally eternity.

The best way to do this is look at all there Abilities and Teqniques aswell as equipment.

And in my opinion Goku has way more teqniques to use, one example is the after image technique which is similar to the plan Batman (The god himself) has come up with to beat Diana in a fight.Also Diana is extreamly pron to rage and this is a almost garanted way to piss her off and make her attacks more predictable(this is something thats has been proven time and time again) and even if Ki attacks are completely out (which I don't think the are) it's not that big a problem as proven by the original DB they don't need Ki attack to win a fight.

Also from what i've seen for Godforce to activate the braclets need to come off Goku will IT kamehameha if it needs to be done.

Sidenot which Goku is this because anything past Cell Saga is an easy victory in my opinion because the AP gap is Huge
Click to expand...
Is that your way of saying you vote for goku?
 
@Cal Debate is not immediately a negative thing. Someone can not agree with your thoughts on something yet still not have any problems with that person as a character. I only dislike people on this site who are rude, condescending, insulting and absolutely refuse to accept others' views. All of those things you are far from. So yes I at least still like you despite the debate.

Anyways (at least going by the profile) Darkseid is not as strong as Goku. 2x is really just a complete lowball. And going by what SD said about the small gap between between Goku and SPC Cell, it is most likely way higher. So WW reflecting Darkseid's beam does not automatically mean it'll reflect Goku's and it is most likely the opposite.
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
tbh, there is no real agrument on why goku wins besides "beter fightning experince" etc..
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That's not the only argument give tho. Another argument was the fact that Goku's AP > WW's AP
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
tbh, there is no real agrument on why goku wins besides "beter fightning experince" etc..
Click to expand...
Have you even read this thread? Not only have both Cal and I, currently the main ones debating this have both agreed that fighting skill is a rather moot point. However there is also the range advantage Goku has, IT and him being 2 times stronger than her at the very least, likely much more.
 
This topic is far from settled. Why do you guys rush so much? Let experienced people such as Cal and Ryu discuss some more.

As far as I see, WW's reflection, hax weaponry, etc. nullifies any of advantage Goku has, which gives her the win.
 
WW's bracelet won't deflect a kamehameha wave. Second we already said goku's higher AP, durability and instant transmission, not to mention wider range gives him the win.
 
Wonder Woman. Goku's only edge is a slight AP/dura, and Wonder Woman trumps everything else and has dealt with people comparable to Goku before and had hax Goku doesn't have nor does Goku have any hax resistance like Doomsday. Not to mention nobody in DBZ has a Large Star Level+ feat to begin with, while DC Post-Crisis characters have several.


Plus the godwave would take a total crap on Goku.
 
@Sirius

1. It isn't a slight edge Goku has. It is 2 times at the very least and 37 and a half times at most.

2. The Large Star Level+ for DB rating comes from powerscaling (the thing that gave Wonder Woman her rating in the first place lol)

3. Wonder Woman does not trump in range either. Or arguably fighting skill (but this point isn't that important.

4. Could you please specify some of the Large Star Level+ feats (cause an upgrade may be in order)

5. How does a state that temporalily gives an unspecified boost that eventually makes her go insane make her stomp Goku?
 
How, we already disussed that Goku has higher AP, Durability, and Range, not to mention Instant transmission as a trump card, since speed is equalized.
 
Ryukama said:
@Sirius
1. It isn't a slight edge Goku has. It is 2 times at the very least and 37 and a half times at most.

2. The Star Level+ rating comes from powerscaling (the thing that gave Wonder Woman her rating in the first place lol)

3. Wonder Woman does not trump in range either

4. Could you please specify some of the Large Star Level+ feats (cause an upgrade may be in order)

5. How does a state that temporalily gives an unspecified boost that eventually makes her go insane make her stomp Goku?
Click to expand...
1) Hax > Stats

2) Power scaling for feats that never happened. Wonder Woman gets her scaling and I'm fine with that because Superman and her are generally considered nigh-even, and Superman has star level feats. There are no Star or SS level feats aside from a statement and outliers from Broly and Kid Buu, so there you go.

3) Goku doesn't abuse range.

4) Can you please stat some for Goku

5) The fight would be over so quickly that Wonder Woman's sanity wouldn't be affected by a short burst.
 
I mean just because it has reached 7 votes doesn't mean it's too late to still debate over it.
 
@Ryu, to be fair, she only goes insane if she uses it for more than a few minutes, and for two FTL+ beings, that's more than enough time. But no. It won't make her stomp Goku. If she wins, it'll be with incredibly high difficulty.

Also, WW's scaling is a bit easier (she's equal to Superman. The end.) while Goku's is a bit wonky (Goku is an unspecified amout weaker than the Solar System SPC and he's stronger than Vegeta who's stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell who's stronger than the androids who's stronger than Frieza who's stronger than first form Frieza)

Also @Ryu, how would the atom-splitting sword come into play in your opinion?
 
@Sirius

1. What hax does Wonder Woman have that would really help this fight? Most of the ones her profile lists are resistances to abilities Goku does not have.

2. Are you aware of the calc that put DB within the Stellar Range in the first place? That is where the powerscaling comes from.

3. That does not mean he doesn't use range or that it wouldn't benefiet him.

4. Appealing to hypocrisy does not negate your burden of proof (and it isn't even hypocrisy as I listed what made DB Stellar) Your claims of Large Star+ feats will not be taken seriously if you do not show them.

5. Once again we don't know how much stronger her godwave is. Or at least it isn't specified on the profile.
 
@Sirius don't lie,. X had less than 10, even counting the ones without reasoning (like yours)
 
@Cal like I said, standard equipment (in refrence to atom spliting sword)

Also, theres the other reason why hes Large Star+, because (Lowball ver) SSJ2 Gohan= SPCand SSJ2 Gohan is just 2x SSJ. SSJ gohan ~ SSJ Goku.

@Sirius galatic threats? If it was, it would be spite, just saying. Also, state said useable hax
 
@Ryukama

1) Atom-splitting is hax, isn't it?

2) Small-star level yes, but it doesn't change that nobody in DBZ other than Kid Buu who is leagues above the Goku used here has done star level feats.

3) He fights up close as he's primarily a h2h fighter..

4) Superman's page has a large star level feat.

5) Fair enough.


@SomebodyData

No but you get the point. Samus had far less votes than X but the fight was still rendered inconclusive, and I went with Reppu's reasoning for the most part, and all your reasoning was something that Samus rarely uses and X could probably dodge anyway given it's only somewhat stronger than a black hole (all white holes are multi-galaxy, but one is only multi-ss. doesn't matter tho).


Let's get back on topic
 
@SD. The sword is under standard equipment, but listed under sometimes, so I'm not entirely certain if it would be used or not. Also, power levels are not linear. SSJ2 would've had to boost him more than two to go from being stomped by a weaker form to being semi-equivalent to a stronger form, especially since the boost had him creaming the weaker form.
 
Well you did bring it up, and technically 7-5 (counting the votes with no reasonings or crap reasoning) isn't that far. As for my reasoning, the reason she rarely uses it is because she had it one time? and abused of it that one time just saying. If you wanna continue this, do it on my wall ig. But yeah, I digress lets get back on topic
 
@SD

At the time I was going off memory I remembered it was 7-3, which is fairly far.


Anyway, my vote goes to Wonder Woman due to more experience, skill, and hax due to the sword, which is in her standard equipment anyway so I assume she has it for this fight. It's like giving Goku the power pole.
 
2) Small-star level yes, but it doesn't change that nobody in DBZ other than Kid Buu who is leagues above the Goku used here has done star level feats. Super perfect cell was capable of destroying the solar system. Goku was able to go toe to toe with perfect cell, who was large star level +. All the main cast in the buu saga except for piccolo and the humans are stronger than SPC. So by that logic, buu is easily solar system level.
 
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