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4-A and Captain's Key Revision (Granblue Fantasy)

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ShiroyashaGinSan

VS Battles
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Granjeeta's Tiers

So currently, the reason why Danchou doesn't have High 6-A key and whatnot is because the side stories, events, showdown, etc's placement in time is inconsistent, thus the keys won't work because Djeeta can be 4-A there, 5-B there and so on. And this, I would say, shouldn't be the case, or at least should be ignored.

Events that have vague time placement should be independent from the main story's scaling other than High 6-A from Ifrit and Tiamat, because of normal Primal scaling. This unless something happens in the event that makes them scale to other tiers, example being the entirety of What Makes the Sky Blue because of Archangels being superior basically every Primals, Thousand Reasons when Row 4 Class Captain fought against Ghandagoza, and Second Advent when Automagod Versatile grappled against Proto Bahamut.

This way we can have reliable scaling while not having to worry about the timeline and Danchou's tier. Danchou is High 6-A by default, but can be proven to be higher with reliable evidence.

Not like there's vague scaling that pull us back from making tiers either. Danchou's growth is pretty simple.

Base key is High 6-A. This is straightforward scaling from Tiamat with planetary weather control and Ifrit with surface wipe. Ifrit is basically just special quest at this point.

Chapter 40+ should be 5-B. This is the point when Captain started to show that he's 5-B with aiding awakened Lecia from stalemating Gandharva who even in Chapter 50+ with the crew's fight against Yggdrasil Malice and Rose Queen, didn't found them strong except for these two. This is also the point when he fought Fenrir and also got a payback against Yggdrasil Malice and also fought against Rose Queen.

What Makes the Sky Blue I key should be At least 5-B, likely 4-A. This is scaling from Sandalphon. I explain it below.

Post-Arcarum key should be 4-A. You know, scaling from Inchoate World.

So the Danchou's key should be:

High 6-A | 5-B | At least 5-B, likely 4-A | 4-A

Base
| Chapter 40+ | What Makes the Sky Blue I | Arcarum

4-A Feats and Scaling
First of all, Evokers. Their feat is basically this. And the more I look at it, the more I think that this is 4-A. Just look, almost countless stars and nebula. Nebula alone is high-end 4-B, add countless stars to that is almost guaranteed 4-A. No, this isn't inconsistent, basically every Arcanas can create this.

Okay, for more complicated scaling, Archangels and characters like Cagliostro. In lore, Archangels are one of the first Primals ever made, but was too strong for Astrals to control, thus the later Primals are much more weaker than Archangels. Note this, weaker. One of the Primals out there is Inchoate World, one of the Primals made by Astrals and only was able to rebel after the war was settled down and Astrals are in hiding. By the lore and logic, Inchoate World should be inferior to Archangels, by the fact that Primals after Archangels are inferior to Archangels. Hell, Inchoate World stated it himself, he's never be comparable to the Astrals during Arcarum prologue, that compared to him, Astrals are perfect. And Archangels are stronger than Astrals out there.

This isn't just pure scaling from Arcarum either. Europa, who is comparable to Gabriel, has likely 4-A feat as well. She can create countless stars with Taurus Blight and her main schtick is to control stars. This should further cement 4-A scaling of Archangels.

There are other characters that are not Archangels that should get 4-A too. Avatar is obvious, comparable to Belial and all. Europa is stated to be directly comparable to Gabriel, Grimnir's test is taken directly after Raphael's. Cagliostro forced Astrals to run away when World said that he is not comparable to them. Danchou scales, obviously. So does the crew in either What Makes the Sky Blue or Paradise Lost, and completely scales in 000.

I suggest At least 5-B, likely 4-A for most people to be completely fair. There are 5-B guys that seems to be able to keep up with them anyway, casual it may be, like Ladiva to Cag. For the profiles we currently have, this scales to these people:

For the ones we currently do not have profile yet, those are:

  • Astrals like Loki and Beel, possibly even Mikaboshi
  • Archangels and most Fallen Angels
  • Metatron, Europa and Grimnir
  • Evokers
 
wasn't The world comparing himself to Astral about how they are created flawless and perfect unlike him who is not and is raw and capable of evolving.

wouldn't this also put Akasha on a higher scale since the Astral also wasn't able to control it nor implement it on war
 
i kinda disagree with Astral being 4-A from that but for archangels or any relevant stuffs linked to them they seems ok

because if i remember right The world told his story of him escaping his fate of being manipulated because of his ability to evolve that not even Astral cannot forsee it and then compared how he is raw and is capable of evolving unlike his creators who are created flawless.

seeing how Astral were studying Evolution even before arcarum The World was created i would assume his kind of evolution is on a higher scale for the astral to not able to forsee it.

i would agree for some astral being 4-A like beel for the sole reason of him beating Belial casually. Loki for achieving innermost teaching which the Astral in Edgeland can't even compare to him and how the edgeland also contained heroes of war that even Loki casually stomped.

cagliostro also was seen to be only able to seal Beelzebub with Astral magic so that can be accepted as enough reason for her to be 4-A but on a lower scale than Beelzebub because thats the best she can do and commented how taxing it was even for her.

Also i was planning to create a thread regarding akasha tiering since akasha seems to bring the crew on a dimension that it keeps shattering each transformation until you reach exosphere and in its ancient flare special attack it can be seen in the background that it also consisted multiple stars but somewhat on a lower scale on what arcarums can achieve.
 
wait, so the quests's time placements arre inconsistent ? I alway though the characters post chapter 44 could scales to the Arcarum characters since after chapter 44, Arcarum is totally accessible for everyone to play.
 
Then okay, some Astrals won't scale.

Also yeah, some error, Evokers are straight up 4-A because they don't have 5-Bs to scale to.
 
@magi

Main timeline tells us that we basically marathoning the story basically. There's barely any time when it's been said that the event took place before any quest, only time I remember is Selfira and Elsa, with their Together in Song being later than their storyline in Nahlgrande.
 
Messenger Archangel could be 5-B with their limiters on but seeing how they can break it if they are desparate they are prolly 4-A as well without it since they managed to hold off Beelzebub without their limiters while he's injured

That seems good enough for the rest. Timelines are a mess because of the inconsistencies of the situation you see them in the start of event and the situation in main story.
 
Akasha is also fine as it is the best asset Astrals had in the war, making it likely superior to Europa and Grimnir. This won't scale to crew in chapter 60+ though, it's weakened significantly by Vyrn.

Also btw, I forgot, I also think Ferry should get a seperate key for her Grand Version for fighting Otherworldly Being. Otherworldly Beings can keep up with Katalina and Rackam at chapter 120+, and Ferry managed to kill one of them in Fate Episode. Likely 5-B.

I also think Between Frost and Flames Dragon Knights should scale? Key to the Otherworld seems to be Otherworldly Being by itself and Dragon Knights kept up with it. At least High 6-A, possibly 5-B I guess.
 
seems fine. the scale of some otherworld vary since their commander are far superior compare to the mobs ones. but they should be at least high 6-A even for mobs because they managed to seal Echidna from Bestia to their world and defeat her.
 
Well, i still dont understand why the Primarchs are 5-B not straight up High 4-A from your reasons (Or why Arcarum is placed after the WMTSB). But other than that, i think everything is fine. You got 1 vote from me.
 
Well, 5-B is kinda consistent with some people that should scale. Like Akasha was kept up with crew in chapter 60+, albeit it's weakened by Vyrn. Proto Bahamut seems to be comparable at surface but it breaks the scaling, especially in Second Advent. Europa and Grimnir should be inferior to Akasha but was again, kept up with the crew and Gabriel scales to Europa period. It's more of showing the consistency of both tiers.

I put Arcarum there because it has higher tier placement. We can switch it if you want.
 
Because Primarchs run on another scaling chain and dont scale to the Arcanums. Primarchs in fact, have are far below the likes of 8 Wing Belial, 12 Wing Sandal and Lucilius.

Arcanums are way more selfcentered their strength is explained by the fact that they can evolve past what the Astrals intended for them. Primarchs are bound by their current strength, they can put down their power but not gain more. Its tough to even talk about the Arcanums as Primal Beasts because they are that self centered.

Im not a fan of doing arc based keys like that, but we lack better alternatives so i guess i will roll with it too.

The desciples are not remotly compareable to the Primarchs. Alexiel got her ass handed to Uriel, so no, Europa is not compareable to Gabriel.
 
She directly stated that when it comes to power, Europa is comparable to Gabriel by Gabriel herself in her Fate Episode. Grimnir has fought Captain directly after he fought Raphael, it's literally stated that he has his stuff from the raid. Plus Taurus Blight is also possible 4-A feat too.
 
Gabriel is the nicest Primarch of the bunch and isn't a character who would flaunt with her strength. It isn't unusual for mentor characters to say nice things to their deciple, just to dunk them later. And even if we take her statement at face value, this would clash with something that actually happend, namely Uriel roflstomping Alexiel. So either Europa is >>> Alexiel without basis or Gabriel is <<< Uriel without basis.

Grimnir fighting Danchou directly dosnt discredit my point. The difference between stronger Primal beasts and Primarchs isnt the same as stronger Primal beasts and weaker one. And i disagree with the notion of Primarchs being 4A in the first place, as they are individualy barely strong enough. It tooked Sandalphon his own and the power of all 4 Primarchs to be able to even fight Lucifer.
 
Fine. Grimnir and Europa won't scale. So does Akasha because who does he scale to without these two.
 
4A for now should only scale to the god tiers of the verse, so no Primal Beast should scale to it.

UBahamut, the Arcanums, the strongest Astrals and Captain. No one else. We can consider Cagliostro and 5 star Eternals with a possible 4A.
 
Wont zooey at least scale with lucifer as she rekt the eldrich monster thingy.Correct me if i am wrong though
 
It was stated that the eldritch abomination had enough power to the point where every astrals(lucilius,loki,beelzebub etc) and skydwellers would be destroyed instantly had it arrive.Basically this "thing" is on a completely different level
 
Zooey's true form had enough power to obliterate this eldritch abomination in 1 slash if i remember correctly.I do think lucilius with all 12 wings would destroy it since it was stated his blows cannot be countered by anything in creation.
 
Well Zooey can go in. She's also supposed to be able to protect threats to Astral Realm anyway.

Also if Zooey can go in, so can Akasha cuz I believe she said that she's not sure she can stop it.
 
She was quite sure she can stop it, she was just super scared on abandoning the crew but im not sure what would happen if akasha fought this eldritch abomination thingy.This "thing" is something that can make the entire world go insane with presence alone
 
Zel97 said:
It was stated that the eldritch abomination had enough power to the point where every astrals(lucilius,loki,beelzebub etc) and skydwellers would be destroyed instantly had it arrive.Basically this "thing" is on a completely different level
This statement should be examined carefully. Loki would be the only valid reason for scaling, as Lucilius and Belial got stronger throughout the event. Base Belial and Lucilius are for example not scaling to 4A, only 8 Wing and 12 Wing respectivly.
 
Can somebody provide an easy to understand summary of the consensus here, so I or other staff members might be able to help?
 
Accepted is the notion of giving Captain arc based keys due to lack of better alternatives, as the Granblue Fantasy chronology is really chaotic.

Still looked after is the scaling of characters to the 4A feats that are linked in Captains pages. My stance is that only god tiers should scale, as every character we can safely say can scale to that tier, is massivly above the rest of the verse.
 
Okay. That seems to make sense.
 
The reason I agreed is because of Beelzebub. Loki ain't 4-A as Jedi said. Though he's High Astral if I remember correctly, so he may not the ones the monster is threatening.

Probably At least 5-B, possibly much higher for Zooey?
 
Zooey is At least 5-B yeah.Im very certain she's higher though just because of the reason of her existence
 
So basically, final tally of the scaling:

4-A: Lucilius, Peak Sandalphon, 000 Crew, Arcarum, Arcarum Captain

At least 5-B, likely 4-A: WMTSB Captain, Archangels, Cagliostro, Fallen Angels, Beelzebub, Avatar, Metatron

Is this okay?
 
Everything sans the crew. Crew were all oneshotted by Lucilius and were not able to fight against 8 Wing Belial alone
 
So should these changes be applied now?
 
Lucifer is 4-A obviously, so does Helel. Zooey is iffy because the only Astral that can be scaled to her by that feat is Beelzebub and Beel is not just an Astral. Plus why does he do shit about it, he helped Lucilius.
 
Yh scaling zooey is hard man.Unless we know exactly how strong that eldritch abomination is scaling her wouldnt be ez.It would be easier had she came out in WMTSB events but she didnt.For some ungodly reason the guardian of balance thinks lucilius with 12 wings isnt a threat to balance itself
 
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