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Possible Fire Emblem 6/7 revisions

TheGatememer

TheGatememer

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So the FE characters from 6 and 7 got downgraded from high 6-A to around 8-C/Unknow. This was due to the fact that the Ending Winter was caused by both the Legendary weapons AND the dragons.

And according to the FE Wiki, "The Eight Legends used the newly-crafted Legendary Weapons during the Scouring, only to find that the power of the weapons clashing against the dragons was so great that the laws of physics were horribly distorted."

And according to another quote from the wiki: "Fearing that the weapons' power may inadvertently trigger the apocalypse, the Eight Legends hid the legendary weapons in secret locations after the Scouring, where they were magically sealed by Bramimond."

This implies that the power of the weapons clashing AGAINST the dragons caused the Ending Winter. It shouldn't be Unknown, since this also implies that the two are basically either equivalent, or canceling eachother out. So the Legendary Weapons should be around half the power of the Ending Winter.

According to Jahn, "The laws of nature started to collapse. Snow began to fall in summer. Stars shone in the middle of day."

This probably means that the stars were warped close enough so that they become visible, but far away enough so that the solar systems don't collide.

So to summarize all this, shouldn't this mean that the characters should be around. 4-A?
 
Sounds logical enough forme,but it might just be a illumination feat.

I think calcing just how strong the Fire Dragons from FE7 are by reducing Elibe to ash over time is and then using that to calc the Sword of seals, which was stated to be stronger than all 8 divine weapons.
 
If the stars brighting up can be calced or confrimed with clear scans i am all for it.


And reducing a multi-continental sized place like Elibe to ashes should still be around that level or in the high end of continent level.
 
I was hoping for some statements from Yahn or other wise characters from the games that stated this as fact.

Regardless, another thing you might want to look into is Aureola. Which is a beam of light that is shot from the sun to earth in 10 seconds, that should also be MFTL+.

Aside of that, i think you need to take some screencaps of when that is stated in FE6
 
I'll come back with more elaborate stuff, but we don't consider other wikis to be reliable sources of information. But, Aureola is not Massively FTL+. It's shown speed of light properties, but no one actually dodges the beam of light in the animation; when dodging animation shows, they simply step out of the light before the intensity grows too much. And the "Stars showing midday" was passed as a bad translation and flowery language.

Although, I would like Tier 6 to come back, JSW debunked the Ending Winter stuff. And the Fire Dragons burning the Continent to ashes in a month is not a Tier 6 feat. It's not implied to oneshot, and burning to ashes can be done through chain reactions overtime.
 
Dark649 said something about that here, and also using Google Translate is unreliable. Everything about the Ending Winter was also discussed here. The actual game and a wise character such as Jahn would also take more priority than the FE wiki.
 
I think the star thing was actually shown in the fan translation and the thread show that google translate was used to prove that the fan translattion was valid and accurate enough.
 
It doesn't change the fact that it was a metaphor for victory was coming as said by Dark649. Still, the 4-A proposal is still whacky.
 
That still sounds rather hyperbolic. Also, he still outright said on the other thread that the Ending Winter was caused by the Divine Weapons and the Dragons clashing. It was also implied to be a chain reaction, and the blizzards were causing devestations on both sides. And besides, making stars shine midday is no where near 4-A. But I doubt even that happened. The Divine Weapons were also stated to have grown weaker over time.
 
JSW explained it here using the in game scripts. It's still implied the combined might of the 8 divine weapons and the entire race of dragons are what caused the Ending Winter. This quote is also important Do not worry. The weapons do not seem to have as much power as they did in the past. They are unable to bring about such a disaster agai.
 
I think you are just confused of the actual feat being discussed here.

Yahn said that the SoS is steonger than the Holy Weapons. Making the Sos at least 2 timws stronger than a hlly weapon.(if we assume that Yahn only meant it to be stronger than one of the divinde weapons on their peak, since he only had experience of the peak holy weapons's powers)

The actual multi continental feat is the Sword of Seals being 2x-8x stronger than Durandal (which was weaker than in its Ending Winter Prime), who one shotted Ninian, who one shotted 2 fire dragons, who could destroy Elibe into ashes over time.

And all dragons are comparable to their durability
 
Ending Winter Durandal (The one Yahn is scalling the current SoS to) > FE7 Durandal (which one shotted Ninian who one shotted two fire dragons) >= FE6 Durandal.

Also, there is no statement that the SoS has gotten any weaker, since it is not considered one of the 8 holy weapons.

And again, the dragons are all comparable tl their durability as seen with Athos and the raw gameplay itself
 
None of the War Dragons are anywhere near as powerful as the three that came out of the Dragon's Gate. And this can be easily proven if you look at the plot. First of all, even Nergal considered those three Dragons to be more dangerous than he was, which is interesting considering that Athos' Forblaze didn't do much except damage his eye. Not only that, after Nergal was defeated, the heroes were considered unable to stand a chance against those three Dragons despite having 4 Divine Weapons.

Ninian has destroyed two Dragons and weakened the third, but she appears to be an obvious glass cannon. She collapsed when she used her blizzard technique, and even the weakened 3rd Dragon was once again a challenge for the combined might of Eliwood, Hector, Lyn, and Athos. Before you say "Game mechanics", the narratives also implied that the Dragon was tough, plus Athos even died during the battle. The Dragons being able to burn the continent within a month would be no where near High 6-A since Ifrit (Final Fantasy XV) got his High 6-A rating via burning the surface of the Earth to ashes within seconds. If it required an entire month for three dragons to do the same thing to just one continent; I'm pretty sure that's millions of times weaker.

Also, the idea that "Sword of Seals is stronger than the Divine Weapons." it's true that Sword of Seals is stronger than them, but there's no proof that it's stronger than the combined might of two Divine weapons let alone all 8 of them. It's safest to only say it's stronger than them individually. Another reason to suggest that SoS isn't really all that much stronger than the Divine Weapons, there's the fact that Roy with SoS was not that much stronger than Zephiel using Exaccus. It could be argued that Base Zephiel is technically much stronger and than Roy, and/or that he's simply a much better swordsman and that having a Sword that's X times stronger was the only reason he won.

Furthermore, if we're going to assume that the SoS is stronger than the combined might of the 8 Divine Weapons, it only further invalidates the potency of the Divine Weapons. Because the Sword of Seals was also used alongside the Divine Weapons; Hartmut dual wielded the SoS and Exaccus against the dragons remember. So Ending Winter was caused by the combined might of the 8 Divine Weapons, the Sword of Seals, and the entire race of Dragons. And much like the Dragon Balls or Chaos Emeralds, the Divine Weapons could be argued to have nowhere near as much power unless all 8 of them are united.

Also, I see way too much Deja Vu on this thread.
 
There's no reason to assume the entire land mass; only the surface. That's the same thing as assuming Ifrit burned the entire planet literally all the way down to the core.
 
That is confirmation bias.

Regardless, since the dragons scale to their durability as seen with Athos surviving two attacks from them before passing away instead of just dying instantly, and all the encounters with manaketes in FE6, the scaling is valid. Even if you consider turning a continent into ash to be lower than High 6-A in the long run.

The SoS should at least be 2x stronger than any of the holy weapons because of Yahn's statement.

Regardless, here is a playthru of FE7 in japanese, at 14:38, Athos states that the dragon gate does indeed connect other "worlds", so that might be interesting to discuss further in another thread, but regardless, instead of using the word of surface, the kanji used there imply the raw landmass of the continent is going to be "turned into ashes", also he actually said it wont even ttake one month for the dragon to destroy the continent, so the timeframe, while still over time, it is implied to be much shorter than a whole month.


https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35...=6&ss_id=426a1d5e-ad52-4546-ac23-b5a5f50f143f
 
No need to get so hostile or accusative.

We're well aware that Athos can take hits from the Dragon's Gate Fire Dragons; but those same Dragons don't have any concrete feats to begin with. It's far too assumptive to assume the dig to the bottom of the ocean to burn the entire landmass. Also, burning to ashes =/= vaporization. Plus, fires often naturally spread via a chain reaction. Google Translate is also not reliable.

Yahn's statement doesn't specify that, only individually. Connecting worlds isn't an attack potency feat at all, but simply a dimensional portal. Also, most people use the world Continent to simply refer to the parts that are above sea level, and burning something to ashes has zero implication that anything below sea level was getting burned.

Also, I could use a timeframe divider to calculate the feat, but the result probably won't even exceed Island level.
 
No, no. the whole connecting worlds thing might be interesting for another thread Not this one.


---

Regardless, the kanji used implies Athos meant to say that the continent itself (landmass) would be destroyed, and he is a pretty wise guy all things considered.

And we do have feats in this wiki that are done over time/potential , like the god tiers from paper mario.

Regardless, assuming the original script's wording, id say a simple 6-A would be the most reasonable for the FE7 cast based on the statements.

And Yahn is never implied to be 1.-refereing to the weakened current holy weapons instead of the prime ones that caused the ending winter 2.-or that the SoS is just stronger than one of them, when he already said it was the holy weapons (plural) fighting the dragons that caused the ending winter itself.


So, i still push for a at least 6-A for SoS.
 
Athos is wise yes, but I doubt he's concerned about the body of land underseas getting burned let alone "Vaporized". The Paper Mario example is false equivalency and would be 2-B regardless of time-frame. It's done via a Void that expands endless and is stated to have enough power to "Destroy all existence". Which the entirely cosmology of the Mario Multiverse is vast in which it grows endlessly and entire Universes are being born every time a person, animal, alien, deity, or afterlife resident goes to sleep. Which it would have to destroy the multiverse faster than it grows which would already be massive degrees of 2-B either way.

This does not quite to a finite sized landmass with a fairly static size and shape. And rather than a void that expands, it's just three dragons roaming the continent and burning the Continent forest by forest and village by village by breathing fire everywhere it goes. If you'd like a proper calculation, I could back scale from standard surface busting.

183.24 Petatons to one-shot all continents. I'll high ball it by assuming Elibe is the size of Asia which has 1/11.4410226612 times the surface area of Earth. Time frame is a month or 2592000 seconds. And it took 3 dragons so I should also divine that by 3. 183.24 Petatons/11.4410226612/2592000/3 = 2.05967731318 Gigatons or High 7-A. Still iffy on this method since spreading fires is much lower than nuking the Continent and is prone to being considered chain reactions.

The Divine Weapons were literally at their peak when they caused the Ending Winter alongside the other aforementioned stuff. Yes, it's stronger than the Divine Weapons, but no proof that it's superior to them combined. Only that between each of the Divine Weapons and Sealed Sword, the Sealed Sword is the strongest of the 9. But, being the strongest =/= 2 times stronger than the rest. There's also still no Tier 6 feat performed by a single divine weapon that has yet to be proven.
 
Celestial Towers do legit have a demonstration of moving the moon closer to the earth which was actually seen. Here, it's just a vague statement. Yes, there are thousands of stars in the sky, but there's no proof of the sun or moon being effected; or literally anything outside the planet's atmosphere for that matter. Hylian Knights are High 7-A individually because their physically comparable to Gerudos and Iron Knuckles who can survive these bombs at point blank range. Not their combined might.
 
Well, do post a scan of that.

Or if you find some japanese script for FE6, we could have slmeone translate ot for us. (Because it is super convenient that they NOW thing google translate is not good enough but say the translations might be faulty. Funny.)
 
He truly is not. He is saying that google translate is ***** aand will ignore all evidence that uses it.
 
Well, Google translate is far less reliable than human translators who are well-versed in the language.
 
The reason Google translate is unreliable is that sometimes they're used and we can try translating something from English to Japanese and then translate the same text back to English, we get entirely different sentences. Another common issue is that different languages have different standards for what words are considered literal or figurative. And they have different word definitions and different words are synonyms to other words in some languages but not in other languages in which said language also has other synonyms. For example, the Japanese word "Hoshi" which is the Japanese word for star is also frequently used as a synonym for planet.

Also, I recall ProtoDude/Vivi Orniator; the same person who made the calculation here said that "Stars showing in the middle of the day" was a mistranslation. And he also said there was no proof that the Divine Weapons effected anything that was beyond the planet's atmosphere. And I heard he was generally good with translations and he's definitely knowledgeable with calculations, so I do trust him with stuff like this.
 
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm34...=2&ss_id=4d1ce042-a99c-4188-8de3-692be2bfaa15


rtx. I found a nico link of the chapter Jahn appears at. Maybe you can find the quotes you need here.

And, one thing a lot of people havre ignored for the Scouring/Ending winter, is that the dragons were STOMPED by the Holy weapons, to the point they had to create stones and turn into manaketes to survive. They did not put any equivalent comeback against the weapons and were driven to almost extinction.
 
I mean, there was a whole society of dragons (as seeen in FE6) against 8 people.

It is fair to say that it this advaantage was indeed significant. It is just unrealistic to give the dragons equal merit to the holy weapons in creating the ending winter
 
Before the Divine weapons were made, the Dragons were the once stomping the humans. And I'm not against bringing the Ending Winter calculation back, but we're going to need JustSomeWeirdo's and/or Dark649's approval first. I do agree the Ending Winter alone was the primary reason Dragons started losing and that Divine Weapons do legit oneshot War Dragons weakened or not.

Also, it might enable Roy, Idenn, and Zephiel be back to Tier 6 since Sealed Sword was never implied to be weakened, but unsure about anyone else. The others might stay Unknow unless JSW or Dark have anything to say. But we'd also need input from them before we do anything.
 
Even semi-weakened Durandal in FE7 was able to one shot Ninian, who one shotted the fire dragons (who no one knows what their ******* tiering is at this point). So, this scale chain could be used to get them (FE7 cast) a tiering
 
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