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NOTE: I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CHECK ON THIS THREAD CONSTANTLY AND RESPOND TO ENORMOUS POSTS THAT TAKES HOURS TO FORM A REBUTTAL, I JUST CAN'T, AS I HAVE JUST STARTED COLLEGE - I'LL TRY TO GET BACK TO ANY AND EVERY RESPONSE, BUT IT JUST WON'T BE IMMEDIATE. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE I ALSO WILL BE GOING TO BED SHORTLY AFTER THIS POST
Introduction & Background
Hello.
I am here because I don't believe that Rosalina deserves her Low 2-C rating, and I am here to try and prove that point. Or at the very least, I believe the justification that she has on her profile isn't valid enough to prove that she has a Low 2-C tiering.
My sentiment on this topic was first born from this verses thread. In which I made the argument that Rosalina resetting the universe is a misinterpretation of the events that Rosalina isn't even the one to do it in the first place.
I had forgotten about this topic until a rematch of that thread was made here, and sparked my interest in the topic again, and so I am finally getting this out of my system.
So today, I am going to take you through every comment I have made on the matter in that previous thread and trying to debunk every part of Rosalina's Low 2-C justification in CRT fashion.
Said justification being, "Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Effortlessly recreated the universe and capable of warping and creating it. Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser)"
Ready? Good.
Lets-a-go!
Rosalina and Universal Reset
Let's tackle the first part of her AP definition, yeah?
The "Effortlessly recreated the universe" part. Well, I don't believe she did it, plain and simple. I first mentioned my disbelief with this ideal here.
The truth of the matter is, she didn't reset the universe.
As shown in the final cutscene, Bowser's Galaxy Reactor malfunctioned due to the Grand Star being removed and because of that, a black hole strong enough to suck up the whole universe was created.
As soon as all hope was seemingly lost, we see that all of the Lumas in Rosalina's care dive straight into the black hole, seemingly stabilizing it, and causing the universe to be properly born anew.
Then we see Rosalina creating a forcefield to shield the damage of the universe being reset, protecting Mario and herself, and while in the forcefield, Rosalina tells Mario about the Circle of Life and how everything came from stars and that old stars that will die will just be reborn again given the proper time - after this speech, she drops Mario onto his new home planet and Mario welcomes the birth of a new universe.
On the thread, I asked what proved that Rosalina reset the universe when the ending cutscene implied otherwise. The real cal howard responded by saying that Prima Guide, the link on the AP justification that I quoted, stated it - and that the feat wasn't vague.
I responded by saying he was wrong by explicitly quoting the whole page in the guide here.
I will copy that post here:
"No, it doesn't - it states that Rosalina had the power to block out the black hole with her forcefields, not that she was the one that reset the universe.
The guide states, and I quote completely:
'Bowser is left behind as Mario and Peach escape. He casts a pathetic shadow against the pulsing materials of his failed reactor. He slowly sinks into the lava, cursing Mario as the reactor finally explodes.'
'Mario and Peach manage to escape Bowser's immediate fate, but the reactor's force is too strong. Fortunately, Rosalina has the power to shield them from the blast that threatens the very fabric of the universe. In Rosalina's calming presence, Mario learns that the universe holds many mysteries about the great cycle of Life: Birth, Death, and Rebirth. Change is the only constant in the cosmos. Bowser tried to bend this force to his will, and in the end, he paid the price.'
'Rosalina sends Mario into a bright light, and the universe displays its awesome power. When Mario awakens, he is lying in a grassy field in the Mushroom Kingdom. A butterfly flits around his face. He opens his eyes to see Princess Peach and all the Toads in the kingdom. The castle is back in its original place. Even Bowser is there, shaken by his narrow escape from his horrible fate. Mario smiles at his friends and casts his eyes to the heavens, welcoming new life into existence. Somewhere, far from the Mushroom Kingdom, a young galaxy with its own stories yet to be told is shining brightly. And maybe, one day, Mario will get to see it.'
There is nothing saying that she herself reset the universe in that scan, and the cutscene shows and implies that it was the Lumas who did it - sacrificing their lives to 'start the universe anew'.
But you are right in one respect, the feat isn't vague - the feat is that, with her forcefields, Rosalina has the power to endure universal destruction rather easily."
So, taking all of that into account, I don't believe that Rosalina reset the universe, and thus I find that part of the AP justification to be invalid and thus, not usable.
Warping the Universe
The next part of the AP Justification, the "and capable of warping and creating it." part.
To be completely honest, this is the weakest part of my rebuttal because I don't even know where this scene is from, as I don't believe it is from the Galaxy games as I don't remember it, nor any context surrounding it.
So, for this part of the CRT, I am asking for context.
What proves that she was warping the whole universe and not just a portion of space? This feat looks 4-A at best for just the gif, tbh.
More context is needed for this justification to be valid, so that's what I am asking for.
Superiority to the Grand Stars
The third and final part of the AP justification is, "Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser"
Like with my last part, I feel the need to ask - but where was this stated? Where was it said that Rosalina was vastly superior to all of the Grand Stars and a Grand Star empowered Bowser?
If my understanding is correct, as from what I stated from the comments of The real cal howard in this remake of the Rosalina vs. Alien X thread. Rosalina's superiority to the Grand Stars comes from her resetting them, along with everything else in the universe, if this statement, and this one too (also this one as well), from Cal is anything to go by.
Or in other words, the first part of her AP justification - which I have debunked earlier in this thread.
So seemingly this part of the justification seems to have been debunked as well - hitting two birds with one stone, as they say.
So once again, it isn't a usable justification.
Conclusion/TL
R
Rosalina didn't reset the universe. Bowser's reactor creating the black hole and the Lumas kamikaze-ing themselves did - so she shouldn't scale to that feat or above all (or any) of the Grand Stars. Her forcefields tanking the explosion should, however, scale.
Also, there is no context to prove that this gif of Rosalina, "capable of warping and creating it(the universe)." is a valid justification for Low 2-C AP. So I'd like some context, please - as the feat looks 4-A without context.
As for her tier, I recommend that Rosalina's AP tiering was changed from:
"Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Effortlessly recreated the universe and capable of warping and creating it. Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser)"
To:
"Attack Potency: At least Large Star level (Seemingly shown to be comparable in strength to Mario and his friends in Super Mario 3-D World), possibly Multi-Solar System level (Shown to manipulate reality to create a space that contains numerous stars )"
And her Durability should from:
"Durability: At least Universe level+ (Completely unaffected by the universe's utter destruction by a supermassive black hole)"
To:
"Durability: At least Large Star level (Should be comparable to Mario) naturally. Universe level+ with forcefields (Was able to create a forcefield that could tank the universe's utter destruction by a supermassive black hole)"
Note: The reason I scaled Rosalina to other Mario characters from SM3DW is because IIRC, all Mario games are canon - and thus she should likely scale to them because she fought along side them in that game.
If I am wrong about this, I apologize, we can discuss proper tiering once this CRT is completed.
Also, I didn't give Rosalina 4-A durability because Rosalina has never shown naturally tanking an attack on that level, and I don't believe that reality-warping scales to durability. Again, if I am wrong, I apologize.
Agree (With Downgrade): 9 (ZephyrosOmega, Eficiente, ShadowWarrior1999, Godhand1999, Oliver de jesus, Modernmyrmido, Emissary From Hell, Oblivion Lightning, Tony di bugalu)
Agree (With AP Justifcation Fixing): 4 (DarkDragonMedeus, TheArsenal1212, NotAMarioFan(lol), Antvasima)
Disagree Entirely:
3 (Dino Ranger Black, The real cal howard, Yobo Blue)
Ambivalent:
3 (Dust Collector, Maverick Zero X, Theuser789)
Introduction & Background
Hello.
I am here because I don't believe that Rosalina deserves her Low 2-C rating, and I am here to try and prove that point. Or at the very least, I believe the justification that she has on her profile isn't valid enough to prove that she has a Low 2-C tiering.
My sentiment on this topic was first born from this verses thread. In which I made the argument that Rosalina resetting the universe is a misinterpretation of the events that Rosalina isn't even the one to do it in the first place.
I had forgotten about this topic until a rematch of that thread was made here, and sparked my interest in the topic again, and so I am finally getting this out of my system.
So today, I am going to take you through every comment I have made on the matter in that previous thread and trying to debunk every part of Rosalina's Low 2-C justification in CRT fashion.
Said justification being, "Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Effortlessly recreated the universe and capable of warping and creating it. Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser)"
Ready? Good.
Lets-a-go!
Rosalina and Universal Reset
Let's tackle the first part of her AP definition, yeah?
The "Effortlessly recreated the universe" part. Well, I don't believe she did it, plain and simple. I first mentioned my disbelief with this ideal here.
The truth of the matter is, she didn't reset the universe.
As shown in the final cutscene, Bowser's Galaxy Reactor malfunctioned due to the Grand Star being removed and because of that, a black hole strong enough to suck up the whole universe was created.
As soon as all hope was seemingly lost, we see that all of the Lumas in Rosalina's care dive straight into the black hole, seemingly stabilizing it, and causing the universe to be properly born anew.
Then we see Rosalina creating a forcefield to shield the damage of the universe being reset, protecting Mario and herself, and while in the forcefield, Rosalina tells Mario about the Circle of Life and how everything came from stars and that old stars that will die will just be reborn again given the proper time - after this speech, she drops Mario onto his new home planet and Mario welcomes the birth of a new universe.
On the thread, I asked what proved that Rosalina reset the universe when the ending cutscene implied otherwise. The real cal howard responded by saying that Prima Guide, the link on the AP justification that I quoted, stated it - and that the feat wasn't vague.
I responded by saying he was wrong by explicitly quoting the whole page in the guide here.
I will copy that post here:
"No, it doesn't - it states that Rosalina had the power to block out the black hole with her forcefields, not that she was the one that reset the universe.
The guide states, and I quote completely:
'Bowser is left behind as Mario and Peach escape. He casts a pathetic shadow against the pulsing materials of his failed reactor. He slowly sinks into the lava, cursing Mario as the reactor finally explodes.'
'Mario and Peach manage to escape Bowser's immediate fate, but the reactor's force is too strong. Fortunately, Rosalina has the power to shield them from the blast that threatens the very fabric of the universe. In Rosalina's calming presence, Mario learns that the universe holds many mysteries about the great cycle of Life: Birth, Death, and Rebirth. Change is the only constant in the cosmos. Bowser tried to bend this force to his will, and in the end, he paid the price.'
'Rosalina sends Mario into a bright light, and the universe displays its awesome power. When Mario awakens, he is lying in a grassy field in the Mushroom Kingdom. A butterfly flits around his face. He opens his eyes to see Princess Peach and all the Toads in the kingdom. The castle is back in its original place. Even Bowser is there, shaken by his narrow escape from his horrible fate. Mario smiles at his friends and casts his eyes to the heavens, welcoming new life into existence. Somewhere, far from the Mushroom Kingdom, a young galaxy with its own stories yet to be told is shining brightly. And maybe, one day, Mario will get to see it.'
There is nothing saying that she herself reset the universe in that scan, and the cutscene shows and implies that it was the Lumas who did it - sacrificing their lives to 'start the universe anew'.
But you are right in one respect, the feat isn't vague - the feat is that, with her forcefields, Rosalina has the power to endure universal destruction rather easily."
So, taking all of that into account, I don't believe that Rosalina reset the universe, and thus I find that part of the AP justification to be invalid and thus, not usable.
Warping the Universe
The next part of the AP Justification, the "and capable of warping and creating it." part.
To be completely honest, this is the weakest part of my rebuttal because I don't even know where this scene is from, as I don't believe it is from the Galaxy games as I don't remember it, nor any context surrounding it.
So, for this part of the CRT, I am asking for context.
What proves that she was warping the whole universe and not just a portion of space? This feat looks 4-A at best for just the gif, tbh.
More context is needed for this justification to be valid, so that's what I am asking for.
Superiority to the Grand Stars
The third and final part of the AP justification is, "Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser"
Like with my last part, I feel the need to ask - but where was this stated? Where was it said that Rosalina was vastly superior to all of the Grand Stars and a Grand Star empowered Bowser?
If my understanding is correct, as from what I stated from the comments of The real cal howard in this remake of the Rosalina vs. Alien X thread. Rosalina's superiority to the Grand Stars comes from her resetting them, along with everything else in the universe, if this statement, and this one too (also this one as well), from Cal is anything to go by.
Or in other words, the first part of her AP justification - which I have debunked earlier in this thread.
So seemingly this part of the justification seems to have been debunked as well - hitting two birds with one stone, as they say.
So once again, it isn't a usable justification.
Conclusion/TL
RRosalina didn't reset the universe. Bowser's reactor creating the black hole and the Lumas kamikaze-ing themselves did - so she shouldn't scale to that feat or above all (or any) of the Grand Stars. Her forcefields tanking the explosion should, however, scale.
Also, there is no context to prove that this gif of Rosalina, "capable of warping and creating it(the universe)." is a valid justification for Low 2-C AP. So I'd like some context, please - as the feat looks 4-A without context.
As for her tier, I recommend that Rosalina's AP tiering was changed from:
"Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Effortlessly recreated the universe and capable of warping and creating it. Vastly superior to the power of all of the Grand Stars as well as a Grand Star empowered Bowser)"
To:
"Attack Potency: At least Large Star level (Seemingly shown to be comparable in strength to Mario and his friends in Super Mario 3-D World), possibly Multi-Solar System level (Shown to manipulate reality to create a space that contains numerous stars )"
And her Durability should from:
"Durability: At least Universe level+ (Completely unaffected by the universe's utter destruction by a supermassive black hole)"
To:
"Durability: At least Large Star level (Should be comparable to Mario) naturally. Universe level+ with forcefields (Was able to create a forcefield that could tank the universe's utter destruction by a supermassive black hole)"
Note: The reason I scaled Rosalina to other Mario characters from SM3DW is because IIRC, all Mario games are canon - and thus she should likely scale to them because she fought along side them in that game.
If I am wrong about this, I apologize, we can discuss proper tiering once this CRT is completed.
Also, I didn't give Rosalina 4-A durability because Rosalina has never shown naturally tanking an attack on that level, and I don't believe that reality-warping scales to durability. Again, if I am wrong, I apologize.
Agree (With Downgrade): 9 (ZephyrosOmega, Eficiente, ShadowWarrior1999, Godhand1999, Oliver de jesus, Modernmyrmido, Emissary From Hell, Oblivion Lightning, Tony di bugalu)
Agree (With AP Justifcation Fixing): 4 (DarkDragonMedeus, TheArsenal1212, NotAMarioFan(lol), Antvasima)
Disagree Entirely:
3 (Dino Ranger Black, The real cal howard, Yobo Blue)
Ambivalent:
3 (Dust Collector, Maverick Zero X, Theuser789)
