Fixing ALTTP!Link's page

Link (A Link to the Past), for reference.

First thing, we need to separate the Oracle incarnation from this page, as it has been retconnected in Hyrule Encyclopedia.

Secondly, even if we're not going to separate the two pages, we still need to separate the abilities in different keys. Because I haven't played the Oracle games, I need help for this. I know that ALTTP has

"Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Enhanced Senses, Magic, Master Swordsman and expert archer, Transmutation, Regenerationn (Low-Mid), Can see and attack ghosts, Weather Manipulation, Portal Creation, Power Nullification (Of magic), Elemental Manipulation (Can cause earthquakes with the Quake Medallion, create huge fire pillars with the Bombos Medallion, and summon wind cold enough to instantly freeze enemies solid with the Ether Medallion), Intangibility, Invisibility, Dimensional Travel, Attack Reflection, Energy Projection, Resistance to Mind Manipulation, Transmutation, Magic (With the Master Sword), BFR" plus some abilities that aren't currently on his profile, like "Immortality (type 4 for reincarnation (Which every Link should have but I'll do that later)), Resurrection (fairies), Fire Manipulation (Fire Rod), Ice Manipulation (Ice Rod), Forcefield Creation (Cane of Byrna), Creation of blocks (Cane of Somaria), Regenerationn Negation (Up to Low-Godly with Master Sword and Silver Arrows), Resistance to the powers of the Triforce with the Master Sword (From alttp manual)"

Link's Awakening Link has:

"Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Enhanced Senses, Magic, Master Swordsman and expert archer, Transmutation, Regenerationn (Low-Mid), Can resurrect the dead, Can see and attack ghosts, Attack Reflection, Energy Projection, Extrasensory Perception, Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Existence Erasure" plus "Immortality (Type 4), Resurrection (Fairies and secret medicine), Fire Manipulation (Magical Rod), Can awaken people cursed to sleep (Instruments of the sirens), Telekinesis (Played all of those eight instruments together), Resistance to Air and Light Manipulation (Mirror Shield, Light is referring to lasers btw)"

Now I need help for the Oracle keys. What I know is:

"Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Enhanced Senses, Master Swordsman, Extrasensory Perception, Can see and attack ghosts, Weather Manipulation, Time Manipulation and Time Travel, Portal Creation, Age Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Transformation, Resistance to Electricity Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Absorption, Power Nullification, Sand Manipulation, Minor Resistance to Vector Manipulation" plus "Immortality (Type 4), Fire Manipulation (Ember seeds), Speed Amplification (Pegasus seeds), BFR (Gale seeds), Magnetism Manipulation (with Magnetic Gloves), Creation of blocks (Cane of Somaria), Statistics amplification (Several rings do that), Regenerationn (Mid-Low) (Heart Ring), Resistance to Earth Manipulation (Red Holy Ring), Explosion Manipulation (Bombproof Ring), Self-Sustenance (Type 1; Zora Ring)"

There are also some other ring which are a bit more controversial, like "Probability Manipulation (Can raise his chances of meeting Maple with the Maple Ring)" or some rings that can halve the damage taken from traps, falls and spikes, or that prevents cracked floors from crumbling, making enemies drop double rupees or hearts, or the protection ring that minimizes all damage to one heart. Basically, I have no idea on how to consider these ones.

Ehh...I don't feel like helping.

That last paragraph sounds like it could be Supernatural Luck or Probability Manipulation; but I think the former might make sense.

Make sure to explai how good the luck is, what it can do, what the luck cant do and its limitations. If so it should be fine, it clearly does something at least and one of those fit it.

For Oracles:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Season Manipulation (With the rod of seasons Link can change the seasons at will.), Time Travel (With the Harp of Ages Link can travel through time.), Minor Flight (With Roc's Cape Link can glide for a short period.), Fire Manipulation (With ember seeds & slingshot.), Movement Negation (Can steal speed with pegasus seeds), BFR (Can remove enemies from the battlefield with the gale seeds), Explosion Inducement (With bombs), Magnetism Manipulation (With the magnet gloves.), Statistics Amplification (With pegasus seeds, Link can amp his own speed), Paralysis (With the boomerang), Teleportation (With gale seeds), Has seeds that give off a smell that attracts enemies away from Link, Incorporeal Bypassing (Can kill ghost), Resistance to Electricity Manipulation (With Green Holy Ring), Fire Manipulation (With Blue Holy Ring), and Energy Attacks (With blue luck ring), Minor Resistance to Vector Manipulation (With quicksand ring, makes Link unaffected by moving conveyor belts), Resistance to Magic (With the Master Sword)

Oracles should also be given this for speed: "higher with pegasus seeds (Function just like the peagusus boots)"

Also Immortality Type 4 should be expanded upon since it's not explained why he has it.

Link's Awakening:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Fire Manipulation (Can set some enemies on fire with magic powder.), Teleportation (Via playing Mumbo's song), Energy Projection (Shoots beams of energy out of the lvl 2 sword), Can take items outside of his dream, Statistics Amplification (Can increase Attack & Speed or Defense with the Red or Blue tunic), Invisibility Negation (Can see invisible enemies with the lens), Minor Soul Manipulation/Life Manipulation (Can live up the soul and bring fossils to life), Resistance to Existence Erasure (Stated that once the wind fish wakes everything will be gone, including Link however, Link was still around when the wind fish woke up), Incorporeal Bypassing (Can kill ghost)

Giver and DDM's suggestions seem fine to me.

"or some rings that can halve the damage taken from traps, falls and spikes"

• Damage Reduction

"or that prevents cracked floors from crumbling"

• Destruction Negation

"making enemies drop double rupees or hearts"

• Not particularly sure, what's the item?

"or the protection ring that minimizes all damage to one heart"

• Likely more Damage Reduction

I def feel like they should be split up - that was the only big change from the HE that I actually agree with, since the Oracle games always felt like their own thing, and Link seemed too young to be the older more mature Hero of Legend.

As for abilities, IDK - I never played the games, so I can't help you.

I think that last one stays fine as self-Pain Manipulation. Just means Link is manipulating all damage into 1 heart.

The Master Sword in the oracle games is not the real one, though it is stated to have similar powers

"In Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages, connecting Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages upgrades the Noble Sword, giving it power akin to the Master Sword." (Encyclopedia (Dark Horse Books), pg. 83)

Aside from that, hitting ghosts is Non-Physical Interaction while immortality type 4 comes from the whole reincarnation thing literally every Link should have.

"Giving it power akin to the master sword"

K so it can still have Resistance to Magic

Incorporeality Bypassing is another way of saying that, so doesn't matter either way.

Should be explained on each Link profile.

Should the damage to 1 heart be Pain Manipulation or Damage Reduction?

The latter.

Doesn't matter either one but if Damage Reduction is the wanted one then sure.

Well, from my understanding Pain simply reduces the sensation itself, but the damage is left intact, Damage Reduction diminishes how much Link is hurt altogether. It's pretty important given how much Link uses it and the edge it can give him against opponents with higher AP.

Bump.

I agree with this.

I've made these two sandboxes so we could hurry along with this.

Bump.

I'll quickly ask Cal if he's willing to make the changes, as he's the most experienced at editing pages here.

Are the two sandboxes good for the pages?

The summary is overly long and there are some typos here and there, as well as sentences that could have been simplified.

The summary comes from the original ALTTP Link page, I can shorten it if needed, which sentences specifically and where are the typos?

Bump.

Bump.

Bump.

Given the Remake of A Link's Awakening confirmed the Wind Fish created a starry sky dimension, Awakening Link's tier could be something like At least High 6-A, likely 4-A

Wind Fish isn't assumed to have 4-A durability and iirc it's not assumed the nightmares scale.

I see, my bad.

Sooo.... my two cents on ALttP

A detail that could be considered, when linking to the explanation on how Link accesses an abilitiy, you could put the link within a single work or few words instead of the whole sentence. That way it's easier for the eye to navigate and find the abilities within the paragraph.

I wouldn't put the halved Magic cost from ALttP as an ability, it's more of a stamina deal or a simple efficient use of his magic. It's not a passive ability that affects the foe or something that he needs to trigger or has conditions to access, it's pretty much a part of his stats.

In his Ice Manipulation the first explanation doesn't specify you are talking about the medallion, you begin the sentence about to mention it but don't in the end before talking abou the rod.

I don't think it's his shield per se what's lighting the room, I believe it's just how much his actual vision can manage to see in the darkness.

Alongside Healing you can add something like Magic Restoratio to and specify he can use some potions can restore his magic. I'd also move his Resurrection next to Healing just to organize it a bit more.

You don't elaborate on how he obtains Power Nullification and Transmutation (the Magic Dust for Transmutation, but I can't remember the Power Null, if you mean the Master Sword you should specify it is via that weapon, that it nullifies that sort of powers and Link to the image from the manual that explains this)

In Statistics Amplification I'd specify it is of his defenses, bith physical and magical. The Pegasus Boots could count as a boost to his movement speed, wouldn't they? Though with the drawback of making his speed harder to control.

How does the Flute grant Resurrection? I don't remember that ability >_>;

I wouldn't say the Boomerang Negates electric physiology. I could be wrong, but those monsters seem more like physical creatures that can produce electricity within their bodies and striking them with melee weapons make the shock be conducted to Link. Stunning them with the boomerang simply seems to left them helpless and unable to use their electricity. Not to mention, the only one of Aghanim spells you cannot stop are precisely his Lightning Bolts.

The Master Sword and the Silver Arrows have Holy Properties, right? They could count as Holy Manipulation.

I'd add links that explain how the Dark World affects the mind, cause madness or makes you lose consciousness, erases your existance and such.

His durability has three sections, but you're using two keys. You also call Ganon "Ganondorf" in the Durability section.

I'd add that the energy beams of the Master Sword have the caveat of not working if Link is hurt.

Given how much his arsenal plays in Link's adventures, I'd expand a lot more the equipment section: A suggestion I'd make sections for his sub-items, his equipped gear (swords, tunics, shields) and such.

Hope this helps.

I see, my bad.

Sooo.... my two cents on ALttP

"A detail that could be considered, when linking to the explanation on how Link accesses an abilitiy, you could put the link within a single work or few words instead of the whole sentence. That way it's easier for the eye to navigate and find the abilities within the paragraph."

>I don't see how that makes it easier to navigate exactly, if anything most people I've sent it to could navigate it just fine. Besides I doubt that's hurting anything, all it's doing is showing proof to all of the abilities.

"I wouldn't put the halved Magic cost from ALttP as an ability, it's more of a stamina deal or a simple efficient use of his magic. It's not a passive ability that affects the foe or something that he needs to trigger or has conditions to access, it's pretty much a part of his stats."

>But it is a passive ability tho. Hat Kid has a similar ability for being able to reduce cooldowns.

"In his Ice Manipulation the first explanation doesn't specify you are talking about the medallion, you begin the sentence about to mention it but don't in the end before talking abou the rod."

>The sentence was never supposed to mention it. It just brings up he can cause all enemies to be frozen solid.

"I don't think it's his shield per se what's lighting the room, I believe it's just how much his actual vision can manage to see in the darkness."

>Actually it shows two different light layers. The bigger layer is Link's sight, the smaller is the shields. So yes, the shield is lighting the room.

"Alongside Healing you can add something like Magic Restoratio to and specify he can use some potions can restore his magic. I'd also move his Resurrection next to Healing just to organize it a bit more."

>Resurrection doesn't coincide with his healing. The fairy revives him.

"You don't elaborate on how he obtains Power Nullification and Transmutation (the Magic Dust for Transmutation, but I can't remember the Power Null, if you mean the Master Sword you should specify it is via that weapon, that it nullifies that sort of powers and Link to the image from the manual that explains this)"

>Cause the original page didn't elaborate. So that's moreso the reason it wasn't brought up.

"In Statistics Amplification I'd specify it is of his defenses, bith physical and magical. The Pegasus Boots could count as a boost to his movement speed, wouldn't they? Though with the drawback of making his speed harder to control."

>The scan where he recieves it directly says what the red mail does. I agree with the peagsus boot counting tho.

"How does the Flute grant Resurrection? I don't remember that ability >_>;"

>Did you view the scan? He resurrects the bird from the stone.

"I wouldn't say the Boomerang Negates electric physiology. I could be wrong, but those monsters seem more like physical creatures that can produce electricity within their bodies and striking them with melee weapons make the shock be conducted to Link. Stunning them with the boomerang simply seems to left them helpless and unable to use their electricity. Not to mention, the only one of Aghanim spells you cannot stop are precisely his Lightning Bolts."

>Their bodies passively have an electrical phsyiology and making you only able to hit them with magic attacks or ranged attacks, yet with the boomerang not only can you hit them with the sword, but touching them doesn't eletrocute you. Idk where you got the latter idea of the monsters from. Are you seriously trying to compare Aghanim, a guy amped by the triforce's magic, to a random fodder enemy in Zelda? I think just from a narrative standpoint it makes sense why the boomerang can't stop it.

"The Master Sword and the Silver Arrows have Holy Properties, right? They could count as Holy Manipulation."

I agree with this.


"I'd add links that explain how the Dark World affects the mind, cause madness or makes you lose consciousness, erases your existance and such."

>I can grab it from Ganondorf's profile then.

"His durability has three sections, but you're using two keys. You also call Ganon "Ganondorf" in the Durability section."

>He's never fought Ganondorf in his human form. He's fought Ganon in his Pig Monster form. They give him a clear name distinction in-series. Pig Monster form = Ganon. Regular human/gerudian form = Ganondorf.

"I'd add that the energy beams of the Master Sword have the caveat of not working if Link is hurt."

>Never really saw the point of that but k.

"Given how much his arsenal plays in Link's adventures, I'd expand a lot more the equipment section: A suggestion I'd make sections for his sub-items, his equipped gear (swords, tunics, shields) and such."

>His composite already had that so didn't see a point.

What I mean it's that is easier to notice the links when the blue text contrasts with the regular color, not just a big blue wall of text.

His magic cost halving... this is hard to put into words, but it's not quite the same. Hat Kid needs to use certain badges to reduce cooldown, it would be similar if Link needed to use a certain item to reduce his magic usage, but after you get the half cost it's permanent and without requirements, conditions nor drawbacks, that's why I thought it's just part of him in itself rather than a proper ability.

My bad with the freezing. Would it be a good idea to put mention the Medallion alongside the Ice Rod?

Regarding the Shield, there is a way to find out well. There are these enemies that can steal your shield and leave Link only with a sword. It can be tried to let them take the shield and then go to a dark area to see if the vision changes. If you ask me, the darker area could simply be the distance Link's vision can no longer properly see. Though if there's an item description or such that says the shields reflect light it's a different matter entirely.

With Resurrection I simply meant to have similar abilities together, not that the fairy was part of the healing.

Regarding the Power Null, even if the original page doesn't elaborate doesn't mean you can't do it yourself. I think it's important to be clear to what the character can and cannot do and just mentioning the ability is too vague. The original page may also get updates or corrections down the line.

The video linked to the Red Mail rushes through the text describing it, it's awkward to try to read it that way. I am not saying it for myself, but rather thinking in any random reader browsing the page. It's just a small addition that specifies which statistic to make it more clear and use the links as backups to prove what the article says, not rely on them to actually explain the abilities.

The bird was actually dead, though? If it was then it should be mentioned where this is clarified. In the video it's easy to assume it could be just petrified, sealed or an inanimate statue brough to life without context (which is Animatio)

Regarding the Electric Monsters is an interpretation, though nothing else. Do side materials or manuals mention something about them? Their electricity being a passive ability is mentioned somewhere? Usually Zeldas have well detailed bestiaries and such. What does the description of the boomerang say about it? The red boomerang could mention having magic or special properties that could help to make a case for it. My issue is if it was a passive, then all ranged weapons would negate their electricity. Regarding Aghanim I mixed things up and made a mistake, thought the negation was meant to how you can hit them with the sword and confused it with how you can deflect the wizard's spells. My mistake.

Taking the explanations from Ganondorf's profile is a good idea, elaborating on how the Dark World affects others helps to understand things a lot better.

Dunno, but it fully explains the ability of the sword beams. And perhaps it might be important in a match where Link can one-shot with AP >_<

I think it would be better if you can see Link's stuff fully explained in a single page without haivng to navigate several profiles. Composite Link has the issue that he has so much stuff he has to Link the Zelda Wiki to explain what he carries around, something that can be avoided in a single incarnation's page. It also allows to fully explain about the items, their abilities and details to provide more info on Link himself and how they tie into his abilities.

What are the conclusions here in a TL;DR easily understood summary?

Also, isn't the Hyrule Encyclopaedia considered as unreliable?

"What I mean it's that is easier to notice the links when the blue text contrasts with the regular color, not just a big blue wall of text."

>I repeat what I said earlier.

"His magic cost halving... this is hard to put into words, but it's not quite the same. Hat Kid needs to use certain badges to reduce cooldown, it would be similar if Link needed to use a certain item to reduce his magic usage, but after you get the half cost it's permanent and without requirements, conditions nor drawbacks, that's why I thought it's just part of him in itself rather than a proper ability."

>All you've basically stated is because it's a certain badge of hatkid, despite the fact that the badge is a passive effect, just like this. Even if we assumed it was apart of him why would it not be considered a proper ability? It still halves his magic.

"My bad with the freezing. Would it be a good idea to put mention the Medallion alongside the Ice Rod?"

>I can put it in somewhere, but I think the explanation alone suffices.

"Regarding the Shield, there is a way to find out well. There are these enemies that can steal your shield and leave Link only with a sword. It can be tried to let them take the shield and then go to a dark area to see if the vision changes. If you ask me, the darker area could simply be the distance Link's vision can no longer properly see. Though if there's an item description or such that says the shields reflect light it's a different matter entirely."

>Idk where you got that conclusion from, the darker area forms around Link and the lighter layer forms around the shield.

"With Resurrection I simply meant to have similar abilities together, not that the fairy was part of the healing."
>The flute isn't healing of himself and a resurrection of another, hence why I didn't put them together.

"Regarding the Power Null, even if the original page doesn't elaborate doesn't mean you can't do it yourself. I think it's important to be clear to what the character can and cannot do and just mentioning the ability is too vague. The original page may also get updates or corrections down the line."

>Ok Tarta. I don't think you understand what I mean. I c+p'd the ability from the page itself, hence why I didn't add a description. All the hax that has links and stuff to it is stuff I added either from my page here or I put myself.

"The video linked to the Red Mail rushes through the text describing it, it's awkward to try to read it that way. I am not saying it for myself, but rather thinking in any random reader browsing the page. It's just a small addition that specifies which statistic to make it more clear and use the links as backups to prove what the article says, not rely on them to actually explain the abilities."

>Even if it speeds through the text the LPers say right after what it does, I don't see the need.

"The bird was actually dead, though? If it was then it should be mentioned where this is clarified. In the video it's easy to assume it could be just petrified, sealed or an inanimate statue brough to life without context (which is Animatio)"

>A lot of random assumptions and iirc there's a part where they mention that's the grave stone for the bird. Don't remember for sure, regardless, I can put "Resurrection/Animation if that's really needed. They both work the same regardless since neither is self-resurection.

"Regarding the Electric Monsters is an interpretation, though nothing else. Do side materials or manuals mention something about them? Their electricity being a passive ability is mentioned somewhere? Usually Zeldas have well detailed bestiaries and such. What does the description of the boomerang say about it? The red boomerang could mention having magic or special properties that could help to make a case for it. My issue is if it was a passive, then all ranged weapons would negate their electricity. Regarding Aghanim I mixed things up and made a mistake, thought the negation was meant to how you can hit them with the sword and confused it with how you can deflect the wizard's spells. My mistake."

>An interpretation would be me explaining the meaning of their ability, which it's not, it's clearly shown to you how their electricity works, nothing needs to be mentioned in seperate mediums or enemy databases because it's clearly shown their electricity is always active no matter what because that's literally their physiology. If you hit them without them noticing you or when they notice you accept for specifically whent he boomerang hits you. Actually no, all ranged weapons do not negate their electricity, because they still have electricity, the ranged weapons just kill them, the only weapon that negates their electricity is the boomerang because it allows you to hit them with your sword without being eletrocuted.

https://youtu.be/HRvJ6ZasXeU?t=159

"You got the magical boomerang"

"I think it would be better if you can see Link's stuff fully explained in a single page without having to navigate several profiles. Composite Link has the issue that he has so much stuff he has to Link the Zelda Wiki to explain what he carries around, something that can be avoided in a single incarnation's page. It also allows to fully explain about the items, their abilities and details to provide more info on Link himself and how they tie into his abilities."

>What the zelda wiki link is specifically for BoTW weapons, not ALTTP. Also what do you mean navigating severla profiles? The only profile you'd navigate is composite Link's.

When I am talking about interpretations I meant that what I was saying are my simple intertrepetations, as I haven't really researched Zelda outside playing the games when trying to provide feedback. I apologize if it came as dismissive of your own analysis on the game, I never meant something like that.

IIRC freezing them also allows you to slash them without getting electrocuted, then again freezing in itself affects energy so that may be another matter entirely. And I kinda suck at physics

The magic halving... Yeah, I guess I am overthinking it. After a bit more thought I did realize you have a point: spells or magical items do have a natural cost and Link can use them for half of it, it IS an ability in the end or at least a natural skill Link acquired.

Regarding the Flute Bird, that's what I was trying to say; without the context one can make many mistaken assumptions about what happened, but if it's explained that the bird was dead it can be quickly understood it was brought to life.

My bad regarding the Master Sword, I indeed got it wrong. Do you plan to detail it or it's going to be left as it is?

I meant having to navigate several profiles in general, I guess it's more of a personal stance on it, but I think each profile should do its best to provide all the info needed by itself and needing to look further should be entirely to look into related topics but not look for information missing (unless it's a whole background, lore or backstory that would clutter the profile too much. In that case, the jump to another page or section is needed).

Come to think of it, I can make an Equipment section for ALttP Link and give it to you later. You can add it if you think it's useful or take whatever may be helpful and use it.

Freezing itself would be affecting another energy like you said, the boomerang directly negates their electricity.

Looking into it this was the following descriptions I found for the bird:

"He had a pet bird that went with him everywhere, but he went to the mountain and never returned." — Innkeeper (A Link to the Past)"

So if anything it can just be a secondary reasoning for resurrection and a possibly at that idk for sure what it'd fall under. Also he can summon the bird in the dark world so range upgrade for summoning possibly.

Which part for the Master Sword? The energy beams?

If someone wants to add that in they could, I've been working on all Link profiles in my sandboxes so I have less time to do that.

Bump.

Antvasima said:

What are the conclusions here in a TL;DR easily understood summary?

Also, isn't the Hyrule Encyclopaedia considered as unreliable?

Click to expand...

^

Even without the Hyrule Encyclopedia the official site confirming the timeline has Oracles takes place after Link's Awakening and treats him as a different Link:

https://www.zelda.com/about/

Actually, there was a discussion that the Hyrule Encyclopedia was considered more up to date and reliable than Hyrule Historia and that Nintendo approved it as canon.