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One Piece - Whitebeard 6-B Calc

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Damage3245

Damage3245

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A couple months ago a calc was created and accepted regarding Whitebeard's feat of creating tsunami through his Earthquake Devil Fruit.

The result of the calc (which can be found here) is 7.558 Teratons (Country level) which is a substantial tier jump from Whitebeard's current scaling of 27.9 Gigatons (Island level) which is gained through powerscaling to Kaido.

This thread is to cover whether the calc is applicable or not and the implications around it. Just want to open this up by saying I have reservations about it and that it does not fit the current powerscaling of One Piece well at all.
 
For applicable you mean if this feat should be considered valid and not an outlier, or in the sense if this feat should scale to his Attack Potency and not be treated as Enviromental Destruction?
 
@Stefano; basically whether or not it is an outlier for him and/or for the scaling it implies for other characters.

Because right now, if Calaca's latest version of the Zeus calc is accepted, we'll have a couple calcs pretty close together for the top tiers (Zunisha's P.E. and the enhanced Zeus lightning strike).

Whitebeard's calc sticks out heavily from the portrayal of the rest of the top tiers.
 
Damage3245 said:
Whitebeard's calc sticks out heavily from the portrayal of the rest of the top tiers.
Click to expand...
Well there were also several statements from various characters about Oars be a "Continent Puller", a title which is taken quite seriously and not as an exaggeration, and his Vivre Card even stated that Oars made Wano.

So if we assume those statements are indeed correct a feat of such level could potentially be 6-B, which could prove that Country level isn't as much of a stretch and maybe we are going to get more 6-B statements and feats, i think its too soon to declair Whitebeard's tsunami as outlier.

It better wait for either more feats/statements or to wait for the series to end for a conclusion, but for now the feat can be treated an outlier.
 
In term of scaling, it decisively scale to all Yonkou and comparable characters, the same can be apply to all Admirals a and comparable characters although to a less degree.

Unsure in the case of Top Yonkou Commanders, at most they get a "likely far higher" for scaling from the Admirals.
 
I agree with waiting until we get more information / concrete statements.

If Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks got a 6-B feat in the current arc or upcoming arcs, it would provide a lot of support for it being legit.
 
Damage3245 said:
I agree with waiting until we get more information / concrete statements.
If Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks got a 6-B feat in the current arc or upcoming arcs, it would provide a lot of support for it being legit.
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Or Blackbeard may replicate the same feat by generating +1000 km's size tsunami, or causing a violent world wide earthquake (if trully the Gura Gura no Mi had the power to destroy/waste the world).
 
@VioleLFC: its a few steps up: Island -> Large Island -> Small Country > Country.

It's about 270 times higher than what he currently scales to.
 
Relatively speaking that's still small, an outlier is something so distant from the other feats that it's inconsistent. Island to country level is not a crazy jump and with the further context I gave it makes perfect sense and is logical.
 
The Island level feats are done by people clearly inferior to the Yonko, from attacks that don't hurt them or are casually done. Not a single one of them exert a notable effort.

For example, Zunisha's 27 Gigatons comes from just being stand still. That feat is also going to be revised if Captain Torch's words are correct, possibly increasing the result. That's just for existing.

Issho's 46 GT meteor is more of the same. He doesn't waste any energy to summon a meteor rain from the sky with meteors of similar proportions.

The jump isn't as absurd as you might want to make people think. This is baseline 6-B for characters who are stated to be much stronger than this and are currently far stronger than we're currently scaling them. We're currently lowballing lots of characters because of the lack of visuals of some feats that are most likely around these levels (Kuzan vs Sakazuki, Chinjao's splitting feat, Oars pulling continents, etc., etc., etc.).

This is the crystalization of a joke we made months ago and I can't believe it turned out real. When a decent calc for a God Tier appears it's suddenly considered an outlier.
 
Issho doesn't scale to the meteor calc.

Zunisha's calc as you've said comes from just standing, but Zunisha doesn't exactly use that amount of energy in attacks anyway.

The calc for Zeus is for an enhanced version of Zeus; comparing how Big Mom normally uses Zeus and how it was after it ate Nami's Weather Ball is pretty clear.

I don't recall any specific statements of the characters being a lot stronger than this. Unless you mean the obvious hyperbole like Whitebeard destroying the planet?

If we get more concrete information for the feats that you've listed, such as Akainu vs. Aokiji, and Oars' apparent feat, then it may become a lot more viable.

But right now it really doesn't fit into the verse.

I'm also not 100% certain of the method used to get that value. We're currently relying on the assumption for it that Whitebeard just raised the seafloor by a kilometer or so.
 
I agree with Damage and Stefano that this is an outlier for the moment. Not only is it unusually high for all of OP but it is also way higher than all of WB's other calcs

Even if applied it would at best apply to Kaido and maybe other Yonko. Going backwards scaling from that could lead to everyone getting this insane upgrade. Alternatively someone will apply scaling only to their favs and leave a huge gap betwen charaacters who have shown to be comparable on panel.
 
VioIeLFC said:
Relatively speaking that's still small, an outlier is something so distant from the other feats that it's inconsistent. Island to country level is not a crazy jump and with the further context I gave it makes perfect sense and is logical.
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You're not wrong either, considering how characters like Ichigo and Naruto had massive jump of tier and nobody had a problem with that.

Ichigo from 6-B to 5-B (589,244,758 times minimum), and Naruto from High 6-A to 5-B (2002.94 times minimum).

And don't get me started with Goku, Sailor Moon, Toriko, Dark Schneider or Seiya where their jumps of power are even more ridiculous.

But again, i think its better wait for more feats/statements before decide.
 
I agree with Calaca here, I dont think this could be labeled as an outlier whenever it's coming from a god tier character. At this point this method of scaling isn't using any direct feats from any of the Yonko and the Yonko are stronger than the characters who have the current calcs by a substantial number. The outlier argument doesn't quite work here especially whenever theres other verses that get away with much more. ****, Fairy Tail went from High 7-A to Low 6-B in a chapter ( which isn't exactly consistent but whatever. ) I argued it was an outlier and it didn't pass. So I totally get where you come from Damage with that argument. Also at first glance the calc seems relatively fine and straightforward, I dont see what's wrong with Whitebeard raising the seafloor whenever he's already been shown to mess with them, such as Marineford where he tilted and island and a large amount of the ocean ( I.E he effected the sea floor unless the ocean is just somehow floating on nothing without any land. )
 
@Stefano; to be fair those jumps usually come from the characters receiving incredible upgrades that few people scale to.

Upgrading Whitebeard would set the standard for the entire verse, and with our currently method of scaling we'd probably end up upgrading every Yonkou, Admiral, Yonkou Commander and several Warlords / other characters to Country level based off this single calc.

So I personally consider the standard of evidence to be a bit higher in cases like this.
 
Why would Yonko Commanders scale??? That's makes no sense. At best only Yonko and Possibly the Admirals would scale and its even iffy for the Admirals. There's a clear difference between the Yonko and Yonko Commanders, and the Seven Warlords baring Mihawk.
 
@The Prince of Counters; Whitebeard hit Akainu directly with one of his quakes, and Akainu survived it with heavy injuries (but still in fighting condition). Later it's implied he would have taken damage from the likes of Marco and Vista if he had not dodged their attacks.
 
The only one with this huge a difference is Kaido who's stats are so high by comparison he seems invincible. The other Yonko have anti-feats that this much difference would be too much to get away with.
 
I agree with the others. There's no reason for this to be considered an outlier coming from one of the most powerful characters in entire verse.
 
Rei Rubro said:
I agree with the others. There's no reason for this to be considered an outlier coming from one of the most powerful characters in entire verse.
Click to expand...
Context is important. Whitebeard as he was in Marineford was a lot weaker than his prime; he isn't tiers above the rest of the top tier characters.

Simply being extremely powerful doesn't make one immune from having outliers.

Important part of the Outliers page is this: "An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a […] series' normal displayed level of power."

The way that the scaling and the feats of the series currently works out, the Whitebeard feat doesn't fit.

What we should do is hold on to it, and if the scaling of the verse later on makes it more acceptable we should implement it then.
 
@Damage

Issho doesn't, other characters do.

Zunisha doesn't, Kaido does.

Perospero and Katakuri saw the lightningbolt and the former said "oh, Mama used Zeus". She can use this power by herself. This is something Nami can only apply with a Weather Egg, while Big Mom can use Zeus easier.

Funny, I deliberately avoided the hyperbole myself and used other examples. On top of that, you don't recall that? You don't recall the difference between Yonko and Yonko Commanders?

The method is for earthquakes. It fits as we have seen Whitebeard doing so, and the other methods don't fit in the slightest.

This jump comes from the strongest man in the world and yet it's considered an outlier. Why? What's the reasoning behind that? Jesus, this is the same reasoning as always, if there's not like 10 feats from each tier the scaling is bad and outlierish. We have to go through a hell to revise a single tier and at this point this sounds more like being conservative on the job already done just to satisfy a PoV.

The only people who should scale to this are the Yonko and the original Admirals. People who, mind you, are depicted far above the rest of the verse. The only person who actually dealt damage to a God Tier outside of the God Tier is Jozu and we dismissed his feat for being a surprise attack making slight damage only. Whitebeard is a case on his own, but he was severely weakened at the time.

On top of that, this makes me think that if for some reason a YC character gets a 6-C or High 6-C feat it'll be considered an outlier because it's better if we go by scaling than actual feats. I don't know, the first joke happened. I wouldn't be surprised if this one turns out real as well.
 
Well Jozu could make Aokiji bleed slightly and Ace slightly burned Whitebeard in his novel, and Marco could survive hits from Akainu, Kizaru and Garp without massive injuries (with some help from his Regen)

At best I can see YC tiers getting a possibly much higher but they clearly don't fully scale to Admirals.
 
> Jesus, this is the same reasoning as always, if there's not like 10 feats from each tier the scaling is bad and outlierish.

Bit of a strawman argument; all I'm pointing out is that it is more consistent for the Top Tiers to be Island level and not Country level.

We're currently in an arc with two Yonko characters. We're bound to get more feats. I believe we should wait before applying the calc as it is the safest approach.
 
The problem with this thread is that everyone in favour of the outlier has the same argument. This is a God-tier, so it is okay. They have to establish their rationale for WB and others being 1000 tiems stronger, not just state God tier like they don't need a reason. Furthermore address the length of evidence against it.

Solution

Step 1) Keep this on the back burner for now

Step 2) Work on scaling descriptions

Step 3) Wait for more feats (its not like OP is over or in any danger of us not commenting in the future).
 
It's the other way around, very little reasoning for it being an outlier and a lot of basis for it not being one.
 
Strawman, indeed. But not far from the truth. If the scaling jumps tiers out of the league of people weaker than the strongest characters in verse it's somehow considered an outlier. I still can't believe this was predicted.

Considering this an outlier just because people massively below the characters that would scale are in inferior tiers it's dismissing the difference between them.

Yonko crews are considered a joke without the Yonko. This was shown when Shirohige died. People didn't care about Marco and the others at all, while even half-dead Shirohige was able to put such authority in the seas.

Nerfed Yonkos can take out of their way characters in the YC tier without much problems. There's anti-feats, but for instances where they can't use their full power or simply PIS to help the plot.
 
If this scales to literally anyone else, I can understand this being an outlier

Considering this is done by who is basically the god tier of the series, I don't see it chief.
 
> If the scaling jumps tiers out of the league of people weaker than the strongest characters in verse it's somehow considered an outlier.

We've seen feats and calcs from the "strongest characters in the verse". It just happens that most of them tend to be unimpressive by our expectations of the characters.

I don't disagree there is a difference between the Emperors and the crew of the Emperors, but I think the difference is being overblown a bit, especially by this proposed alteration to the scaling.
 
Schnee One said:
If this scales to literally anyone else, I can understand this being an outlier

Considering this is fine by who is basically the god tier of the series, I don't see it chief.
Click to expand...
Just off the top of my head I can see this scaling to Whitebeard, Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks, Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Gol D. Roger, Monkey D. Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh, Mihawk, and Blackbeard.

Thinking that it only applies to the original Yonkou and Admirals is wrong.

Being "more powerful than other characters in the verse" isn't a reason to justify upgrading these characters by several tiers based on a one-off feat.

The tsunami that Whitebeard creates are tall, but are pretty small otherwise if you look at the size of them compared to Marineford which is only several hundred meters wide.
 
I don't know if this scales to every Yonko if I'm honest, I partially feel like the only ones characters should scale are those who directly fought Whitebeard and those who are comparable to said characters.
 
I guess the current scaling is bad because Sakazuki has a Low 7-B feat and anything above that should be deemed as outlier because they ain't God Tiers.

I'd get the argument if this were done by someone like Franky or a pirate below Yonko Commander tier in general, but this is the Yonko we're talking about. The outlier argument doesn't hold up in this case.

The proposed "alteration" of the scaling is simply moving the God Tier to 6-B instead of 6-C, with the rest of the characters getting a "possibly higher" at best. Not even Marco should scale to them since he didn't do jack to none of them, and the Sakazuki scene only shows that Haki can hurt a Logia. But there's no evidence that Marco and Vista'd have severely injured a Sakazuki who, mind you, was already pretty messed up after his fight with Shirohige.
 
> I guess the current scaling is bad because Sakazuki has a Low 7-B feat and anything above that should be deemed as outlier because they ain't God Tiers.

Calaca, you've already acknowledged you made a strawman argument earlier. You don't need to keep making them.
 
The Calaca said:
I'm sorry, but I'm really tired of the same arguments as always.
Click to expand...
I make the same argument because I believe in the consistency of Island level top tiers for the series.

As Dr. Fix and Stefano have mentioned earlier, I think the best course of action is to hold on to the Whitebeard calc and wait until we get a clearer picture of the top tiers of the verse before applying it.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Queen quite literally proved the difference between Yonko and Yonko Commanders. As did Kaido via one shotting Luffy with one hand.
Click to expand...
The former is actually an anti-feat for Yonko being that much stronger than YC.
 
Queen got one shot by Big Mom, what are you talking about? Lmao if you wanna use Queen knocking Big Mom out that doesn't count as the shaking of the brain can be done by people who are much weaker.
 
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