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Battle for the 3rd Strongest 6-C: Mami Tomoe vs The Heavenly Record Eater

An avatar huh? For some reason these "avatars who are powered down 4D existences" really annoy me recently. But I guess this one is alright, since it's not TOO haxed.

Anyway, can the fish deal with abstracts of type 1? What does the fish's Reality Warping look like? What does it do?
 
The avatar looks like a person iirc

He leads with mindhax in the millions. His reality warp can supposedly make him use powers from his true form (physical strength too)

And Mami is type 2 (type 1 is a possibility)
 
Actually his mindhax should considerably upscale from Yuuki Tachibana's who could control the entire world with his mindhax but given its limited range range it is limited to be overtime.
 
Wasn't there some rule that said transformations/amps that increase AP of any kind require the boosted state to be its own key or something? I remember a discussion like that recently but I am not sure about the details. Since it appearently also increases physical strength to (low) multiversal levels...

EDIT: Regarding Mami's Abstract Existence, no, in a previous discussion we concluded that anything with a "maybe" applies unless specifically said to be not applying in the OP. Actually her current ranking is based on that being the case.
 
I mean:

  • Key 1: unamplified avatar (6-C)
  • Key 2: amplified avatar (2-C and higher)
  • Key 3: true self (2-C and higher)
That said, the second key would probably be redundant. And this is also why avatar profiles like these are annoying. Most of the time it's an excuse to have a lower 3D character with various 4D hax by having just the base AP be low enough to justify it.
 
It isn't an amp or a transformation. While on its avatar it simply enforces some of its athorithy of its true body that is outside of the universe to get a smurf ability. So basically what bothers you I suppose.
 
I don't really recall the HRE boosting his Avatar's strength to the same level as its True Form just to the current level that is listed on the profile. When its avatar couldn't handle someone it went to its true form and tried to kill them with its true form's power given that its time space Hax didn't work.
 
Its still an avatar tho. He is still nowhere compared to the true form even with 2-B AP

AP is not a state of a being (and his durability stays the same)
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
Its still an avatar tho. He is still nowhere compared to the true form even with 2-B AP

AP is not a state of a being (and his durability stays the same)
Click to expand...
You say that, but this is a 6-C ranking match, you know...

BTW, can it use its true self's conceptual manipulation when going all-out (as an avatar) too?
 
Well I am not entirely sure one way or another. Do you know which admins/discmods would likely be knowledgable on this aspect of the rules? Because I don't think this will advance any further otherwise.
 
So if physical strength upgrade doesn't go all the way up to 4D-potency, then how much DOES it actually increase? Is there any time limit or other limitation on how much of the available strength can be used at once in the "avatar amped by true self"-mode?
 
<No resistance to mind manipulation

Mami Thinks, and if it doesn't work on defeating the Avatar, repeatedly.

If it's immortality only helps when it's dead, then Mami wins, if not, then it can continue.
 
Is a key that got immortality type 9 with no limitations (i.e. only solution is to attack the main body) even valid? I thought there is a consensus that incap of an avatar always leads to win for the enemy, if the true self has higher AP, exactly to prevent the situation where the only way to win is for the true self to be killed/incapped.
 
Because not all immortality encompasses this.

Done only make a new avatar when one is dead, others do it all the time

So, what's the Fish?
 
It's not a 2B mind unless its profile is really that bad that it can't even state something as basic as mind resistance.

You do not have to mindhax a true form to mindhax the Avatar unless shown.
 
Schnee One said:
Because not all immortality encompasses this.

Done only make a new avatar when one is dead, others do it all the time

So, what's the Fish?
Click to expand...
The problem is exactly the "do it all the time" cases though. Like, can you list a victory condition for such cases that doesn't require either killing the main body, or some sort of dimensional lockdown that needs to be casted on at least Low 2-C level to win? At that point you no longer fight against the avatar, but rather against the main body.

Not sure which is the case for the Fish though.
 
There are many reason why an avatar doesn't neccessarily hold the true body's mind (e.g. "too powerful" for the body to handle, etc.) so there may be cases where the avatar get it's own "artificial mind" that serves as a connection hub for the true self, but is in itself limited to the avatar's level.

Which case is it here? Are there any feats for it being direct control?
 
Then I am not sure if anything would work... Can the amped up version's reality warping/spacetimehax destroy the entire universe? Not sure if it's valid but lack of void manipulation resistance might possibly kill her, once the universe is destroyed?
 
The heavenly record eater is in direct control; he inserts his mind into his avatar directly due to the boredom that is the Sea outside of the heavenly records, but he finds the actual heavenly records entertaining. Even when Yogiri used his instant death and it escaped it was described as returning its mind into its real body. There's other instances on the series where avatar do not actually harbor the mind of the true form like Lain B and Vahanato and in both cases the narration tells us that they are just connected to the true mind instead of actually harboring it.

It should probably be taken into account that the possession could affect conceptual beings due to that being a thing that the true body does by inserting its information into the vessel and its true form can interact with conceptual things.
 
Sorry but to which part are you referring to? The conceptual interaction?
 
I mean, not really? I do not see that much of a differnce given that he inserts his information into the conceptual thing that is the heavenly record to begin with when he normally does it. It is not based on putting two of his abilities together that have not been used simultaneously.
 
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