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Arjunalter/Super Karna Ability Addition and 2-C Downgrade

ShiroyashaGinSan

VS Battles
Retired
7,165
1,066
Abilities

Arjuna Alter

Weather Manipulation and Fragrance Manipulation - Created massive shift of weather in a single day, robbing water from the ground to turn it into a desert and changed even the smell of the environment.

Aura - His mere presence caused Jinako and Rama to feel uneasiness.

Regenerationn (Mid-High) - It is stated that Ashwattahama can regenerate even after turned into fine dust due to having his divine power of Shiva and Yama.

Disease Manipulation and Pain Manipulation - Gave Ashwattahama a curse that gives him "painful diseases and suffering" for eternity. Rama felt extreme pain just after he got the curse.

Possible Biological Manipulation - Ganesha stated that Shiva was able to replace his head with an elephant's after he cut it off with him saying "sorry can you forgive with this after I cut off your head?"

Avatar Creation - Scaling from Gods such as Shiva and Shita who can create avatars for themselves.

Statistics Amplification - Gave his servants parts of his divine authorities which they can use to greatly enhance their power.

Necromancy - With Yama's Authority, he can raise the dead.

Healing - One of his authorities was used to heal divine enemies and increase their strength like dopamine.

Resistance to Void Manipulation - Was completely fine within nonexistence before the world existed.

Super Karna
Before moving to Super form, this should be included to his normal key.

Absorption: Absorbed Ashwattahama's spiritual core to himself.

He should get all of Ashwattahama's abilities due to absorbing him. He should get Vishnu and Shiva's abilities as well, as he got it after his reappearance. This includes the likes of:

Conceptual Erasure: Due to Shiva erasing Kama on a conceptual level with his fire.

Death Manipulation: Should be able to utilize Pashupata, a weapon that delivers Moksha and instantly kills targets that fail one of two checks.

Space-Time Manipulation: Even with inferior power of Ashwattahama can interfere with time itself. Has power of Vishnu who has control over space-time.

Creation: Scaling from Vishnu who can create other Gods.

Avatar Creation: Same reason as Arjuna.

BFR and Possible Time Travel: Ashwattahama used Shiva's power to send his allies to the past and possibly able to do it to himself as well.

Curse Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Statistics Reduction and Disease Manipulation: Due to having Vishnu's power, which should include the power to curse.

Regenerationn (Mid-High) - Scaling from Ashwattahama who can regenerate after being turned into fine dust.

Possible Biological Manipulation - Same reason as Arjuna.

Resistance to Void Manipulation - For the same reason as Arjuna.

2-C AP problem
Arjuna is currently 2-C because of him recreating the universe many times in a row. But there's a problem. He doesn't do that at the same time. He does that one at the time with Mahapralaya.

This is like saying character A who only ever destroyed universe one at the time can destroy multiple of them because they destroyed two or three over time. It's obviously flawed.

So I propose his downgrade to just similar to other God tiers.
 
I am very skeptical about the Regenerationn as I don't remember that being mentioned at all during the Arjuna/Karna battle.

So either they also have Regen negation or is something that must be 'turned on'. Should be pointed out in the profile to avoid confusion.

Agree with the rest.
 
It scales from Ashwattahama who said that he can do it. It doesn't need to be turned on, so they should get Regenerationn Negation.
 
Yet it is in no way at all hinted on their battle, so we'd just give them Regenerationn negation for no reason with basis. That treads too close to "why don't we give these dudes that win against these guys resistance to this hax? Otherwise it makes no sense that they can win."
 
That Ashwattahama has that Regen because of given power from them doesn't matter, especially when it was meant to be as a curse. We have no reason to assume just because they have the authority that Regen is always turned on.

Again, does the battle that Arjuna and Karna ACTUALLY have implies this Regenerationn in anyway?

@ Iapitus Perhaps if that's what they used in the battle, yes.
 
No, it's not a curse, who said that? He has it from birth, the suffering is the curse. It's not from Authority, it's just an ability from just having the power of Gods.

You can scale it to other people without them showing it if they logically able to. It's always been the case, Gears from Guilty Gear has Low-Mid regen and Sol Badguy has Mid-High Regen for years now from complete scaling and so does BlazBlue characters with Mid-Godly Regen and Regen Negation. If they should be able to, they should be able to.
 
Gonna agree with all of it including regen because i trust Gin explanation more due of being native Japan so he know more than us.
 
Yeah, except none of the cases you are mentioning have anything to contradict them.

Yet we have fights against Arjuna and we even use Super Karna but you are gonna tell me at no point, nowhere, is this super Regenerationn pointed out at all? If you don't find the issue with this I don't know how to explain we have no reason to assume it's just a passive thing that is on always.
 
The power of Arjuna was actually broken because of time travel shenanigans. It was needed to broke the authority of Arjuna's rule. I think that's one of the reason Arjuna's power not working properly.
 
They have "contradictions". Sol never regenerated on that scale on all of his fights, so does Gears. Observers who has Mid-Godly can be killed by normal ass fireball and sword cuts and gun wounds.

Yeah, because they're focused on talking about Gods and shit. It's not needed to constantly brag about it, they have means to negate it after all, like Karna having flames and Arjuna having Authority. Yes, it's passive because Ashwattahama wanted to kill himself but can't because of his regen, constantly regenerating every time he takes fatal hit.
 
John985 said:
The power of Arjuna was actually broken because of time travel shenanigans. It was needed to broke the authority of Arjuna's rule. I think that's one of the reason Arjuna's power not working properly.
Yeah, it's been said that his divinity and his position as a God were significantly weakened by Rakhshmi and Ganesha, even more so with his absorption of energy from multiple galaxies within the tree.
 
Karna wasted so much energy on that fight that his energy was reduced to nothing so it wouldn't make sense that he can regenerate at that state anyway. If he's not burnt by training and forcibly adding Gods Authority to his saint graph he should have regenerated fine. Also Sol is more immortal than Raven which is more evidence of it plus he's only truely hurt by either people from the Backyard or Sacred Treasures, latter which created to kill specifically for creatures just like him. The sword and guns that can kill Observers are usually with Ars Magus which is created to specifically kill self-observing Observers but let's not talk about that.
 
Is it really Absorption? I did remember Karna return the body of Ashwattahama to him again after the fight with Arjuna. So I think it's possession.
 
Was the effect of VS retcon? He did use VS on Ashwattahama then he got KK again when he defend the attack of Arjuna.
 
Yeah I know it happen at early part of the story, it's just that when we fought Ashwattahama Karna use VS just to stop him and he lost his KK. Then when Arjuna attack Chaldea, Karna block it with KK. So how did that happen? Or he didnt use the full power of VS like in extella?
 
He didn't lost his KK during the fight. In the last part of the fight Karna used 100% VS to him which damaged him greatly but he was like "b!tch I can regenerate get that shit outta here" so they escaped, later then he used full power of KK to block Mahapralaya for few seconds.
 
Everything seems good except the resistance to void manipulation.

Clarification on if this void is stated to erase things within it, or if it is simply the nothingness before the universe please.
 
So that means even if Karna use VS, KK can still be use later on. Just that if he use VS it would remove KK momentarily.
 
@Monarch

It's only stated to a nothingness where only him and people who is at side of him can exist, implying that other people who ended up getting in it has some bad effects upon entering. Ashwattahama also stated that the things were stripped of their forms and only exist as concepts, in fact it's a concept garbage bin.
 
That's how he calls himself and his official name. I personally don't like it, he sounds like a super Saiyan.

Also I think we can add Super Karna's key after this is agreed to be added. Everyone is kinda cool with it after all.
 
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