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Let's destroy this universe (Vivec vs. Caine)

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Also from what I can see Caine does not have a way around Vivec's True Godly regen. This seems like a stomp for Vivec.

Also how strong is Vivec's Matra? Low 1-C? 1-A?
 
I believe its Low 1-C. He can swap to Chim instantly though. Caine can BFR Vivec to a 2-D being potentially to get around his regen. Although it will be hard to interact with him through dat type 5 acausality.
 
Yes he can. He can also completely fodderize Caine by manipulating his nymic like he did with Azura.
 
What's Vivec counter to getting High 1-C power null passivelly slammed on his face ?

BTW I am 100% sure Caine can affect type 5 Acausal
 
It being useless because Vivec can reset himself, go 1-A, manipulate his nymic turing him into fodder, it not even working beacuse type 5 acausality.
 
"As a God, Vivec exists simultaneously outside and within the bounds of Time. Lying "asleep" in the Timeless World of the Gods upon his destruction, and being capable of instantly returning to the world of Time by choosing to "wake up" and manifest once again."

And a nymic is kinda hard to explain. Think of how like platonic concepts exist for each "thing" as their true selves, a nymic is the "true" version of an individual that can be manipulated into quite literally anything, like how he turned Azura a Daedric Prince into a fodder.

But all of this is irrelevant as Caine can't even touch him.
 
I mean, I don't really know anything about World of Darkiness, but even if we say Caine can affect Vivec directly, what would even allow Caine to get around Vivec's true-godly Regenerationn? Also, I fail to see how the reducing three-dimensional beings to two-dimensional beings would really matter here, since the true-godly Regenerationn isn't really dependant on what level of dimensionality Vivec is, and Vivec is four-dimensional any which way. I do want to point out something though which I feel is being underlooked. I don't feel that Vivec would go for CHIM right away unless he was really certain he absolutely needed to. Abusing CHIM is a dangerous thing to do, and Vivec of all people knows this.
 
Even without CHIM i'm pretty sure Cain wouldn't be able to do a thing, even if he could he doesn't neg Vivec's regen, so he just get's donuted by Low 1-C Matra
 
AogiriKira said:
Even without CHIM i'm pretty sure Cain wouldn't be able to do a thing, even if he could he doesn't neg Vivec's regen, so he just get's donuted by Low 1-C Matra
Click to expand...
Caine has 9-11D power null so the spear won't work.
 
Setsuna tenma said:
AogiriKira said:
Even without CHIM i'm pretty sure Cain wouldn't be able to do a thing, even if he could he doesn't neg Vivec's regen, so he just get's donuted by Low 1-C Matra
Click to expand...
Caine has 9-11D power null so the spear won't work.
Click to expand...
Can he even use it, due to Acausality Type 5? I'm pretty sure if he tried it just wouldn't work due to that.
 
Caine has 9-11D power null so the spear won't work.
Can he even use it, due to Acausality Type 5? I'm pretty sure if he tried it just wouldn't work due to that.

yes he can.Mages can interact with demons who have type 5 acausality and Caine is stronger than them
 
Cain and Vivec have Acausality for the same reasons. Both existing outside of time. However Cain has Type 4 Acausality whilst Vivec has Type 5 Acausality? Why?
 
"Unbound by the flow of linear time across the Multiverse of Mundus. The nature of his Godhood makes it so that Vivec was simultaneously always a God, but also born a Mortal, giving him two contradictory, equally true pasts."

Time in The Elder Scrolls functions differently than most fictional verses.

Also Vivec is able to harm the Daedra who have Type 5 Acausality as well. For them it's described as "Gods and Daedra are eternal and immutable entities who only seem to be linear and bound by cause and consequence because they choose to appear as so." Basically saying Daedra and the Divines aren't bound by Cause and Effect.
 
I'm pretty time works the same way as usual as in progression of events it may be that there's a cosmology difference because TES has one of the most complex cosmologies.

It may be that he just lives in basically a constant dragonbreak where mortals and gods walk together and causality doesn't exist, all possibities occur. Still I think this would attribute to anyone who exists outside of time they would also exist outside causality.
 
Well time is pretty strange in Elder Scrolls Lore. See Aka's High 1-B reasoning that has to do with time.


(Created and embodies the concept of Time, which stabilized the entire Aurbis from the primordial Chaos and permeates as the blood that flows through the whole of existence. The Aurbis is an infinite construct which manifests all possibility as the Grey Maybe between the White IS of Anu and the Black IS-NOT of Padomay, containing infinite layers, with the Infinite-Dimensional Void of Oblivion which dwarfs the Multiverse of Mundus being encompassed by the larger Infinity of Aetherius, as well as endless unstructured realms beyond which form a single "Wheel" existing in parallel with other structures of similar nature and size, which are themselves part of a greater Wheel existing as the lowest level of a "Telescope stretching all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable among its infinite walls")
 
Yeah well the whole Aurbris was basically a huge dragonbreak until Aka did that. So he created time which created order and causality. It's High 1-B because it prevades throughtout the whole Aurbris which is massively into High 1-B. Existing throughout a hiearchy of realms beyond infinite dimensional would be High 1-B. It's just time shown on a huge cosmology it's not really acting different.
 
Creates time = Order and Causality, without it, everything is permanently on Dragonbreak.

Vivec Existing outside time = Existing outside all Causality and Order.

You kind of just proved my point
 
I didn't claim Vivec doesn't have it. I said Vivec and Caine have it for the same reasons yet have different types. No as a God he exists out of Mundus' time not the whole Aurbris.
 
I was correcting the mistake you made not refuting Type 5 Acausality. The point is time doesn't act differently it's just they mythology of time that's different from other verses, the deities and the scale of time being on the highest High 1-B we've came across. So this also would apply to Caine too who also exists outside of time.
 
Well Vivec also has Acausality Type 5 due to being able to interact with Azura, who exists unbound by cause and effect.

I don't believe Caine should have Acausality Type 5 due to just existing outside of time.
 
I'm pretty sure all the Gods are beyond cause and effect because they're beyond time. They can literally pop up anywhere and anytime in Mundus by "waking up".

It specifically says "outside of time". Time contains temporal sequence of phenomena, the connection between cause and effect takes place in time. outside of time means outside of that sequence of causality.
 
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