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Naruto Calcs (Calc Group members only)

Damage3245

Damage3245

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A number of Naruto calcs have been remade recently, some of them with multiple versions, and a lot of these calcs are very important for the verse. We need to determine which of these calcs are the most appropriate / fitting for use before any Content Revision Threads can be made for them.

The purpose of this thread is for calc group members to discuss the calcs and verify which ones are preferable.

Antvasima has made it clear to me that this thread is for calc group members only. Debating who the calcs scale to and what the new ratings would be will be handled on a separate thread, and posts from ordinary users will be removed.

If you have some input for the thread that you think needs to be address, you can leave it on my message wall.

All of these have been evaluated with the exception of the new version of Jiraiya's calc.

Calc 1: Sasuke's Fireball Jutsu

Calc 2: Jiraiya's Rasenga

Calc 3: Pain's Storm Jutsu

Calc 4: Pain's Chibaku Tensei

Calc 5: Biju Bombs

Calc 6: Combined Biju Bomb

Calc 7: Six-Tailed Biju Bomb

Calc 8: Prime Kurama Biju Bomb

  • Current Version - Adam of Darkness's Versio: 3.768 Teratons [Small Country level]
  • New Version 1 - Damage3245's Versio: 55.005 Gigatons [Island level+] - ACCEPTED
  • New Version 2 - Jvando's Versio: 3.143 Teratons [Small Country level] or 6.36 Teratons [Small Country level] or 13.04 Teratons [Country level]
 
I think that what is required is "simply" to look at which of the calculations that are most reliably calculated. If you need specific clarifications, you can ask reliable members who know about Naruto to provide further information here.
 
Calc 1: I'm fine with your or the narutoforums version

calc 2: Alex's version looks good

calc 3: again, Alex's version is fine

calc 4 : I completely disagree, i have been and always will be for Kep's version and i don't think we should move forward unless a majority or kep agrees to

calc 5: I don't know what the outcome of the vaporization for bijuu bombs debate was so i'm not sure about this one, if vaporization is fine then Rocker's version is fine

Calc 6: Again i'm not sure about the mountain size issue in naruto, might have to ask Kep for that since he was the one who originally used it
 
Thank you for your input TataHakai.

Regarding the vaporization, I don't remember if there was a big debate about it recently but these feats should be looked at on a case-by-case scenario. Some Biju Bomb explosions show evidence of vaporization, and others do not. Can I ask why you think Rocker's version is preferable?

The mountain size assumption is a flawed one because it is based on that idea that just because there are some big mountains in Japan and the Naruto world, that any mountain can be assumed to be that big.
 
I recall there being an argument about it, honestly either yours or rockers is fine i don't even know, the depiction of tailed beasts in Naruto is so inconsistent

Yeah i don't know about it to be honest, i still would like to hear what Kep says on it
 
About Sasuke's Fireball Calc, I can't even see the scaling images of the Narutoforums version, not to mention that he used 30342 j/cc out of nowhere for rock vaporization, so for me that version is discarded by default.

In Damage's version I'm starting to think he used the ellipsoid formula even though the crater is a half ellipsoid, or maybe he forgot to half the width, and TheFinalOrder's version doesn't seem to be much better using the spherical cap formula.
 
@Therefir; my bad, that was a bit of a rookie mistake. I have now updated mine to use half of the ellipsoid volume.
 
I don't think PE can be used for Pain's Chibaku Tensei. It assumes the entire mountain was lifted at the same velocity as if it was launched in the air
 
No, it requires force, not energy and it doesn't depend on the height
 
We're both talking about gravitational potential energy right? Because GPE definitely does depend on height and requires energy
 
Energy does but force does not. And just keeping that mass it the air doesn't require energy
 
Yes it does

That's how gravitational potential energy works

The energy that Nagato puts into his chakra CT orb is the energy that keeps that mass there

Gravitational potential energy is literally the energy a body of mass has in relation to its position to a gravitational field, in this case the earth, the formula being Pe = m x g x h

H is height in meters, meaning higher height = higher energy, i'm not sure what's so hard to understand here
 
I want to explain why I think that Kep's result is inflated above what the true size of the Chibaku Tensei is.

  • First page: The Chibaku Tensei starts dragging in material forming a shell around the core. The process starts off slow.
  • Second page: The Chibaku Tensei starts growing, dragging in rocks and trees. It is clear no more than a few meters across at this point.
  • Third page: The Chibaku Tensei has grown much larger, but it is clearly not too big yet. Easily hundreds of meters across going by the size of the boulders around Naruto and the size of the debris being lifted up towards the Chibaku Tensei.
    • More importantly however there is a lake over on the left side of the panel. If the Chibaku Tensei at this point is only hundreds of meters across then that lake is not too far away.
  • Fourth page: There is not much to see at this point but this is where Naruto is dragged into the Chibaku Tensei. It has grown bigger while he has been pulled towards it but clearly not too much time has passed.
  • Final page: Finally we see the completed Chibaku Tensei - at first glance it may be hard to determine any size for it, but if you look over to the left you can see the same lake that we saw earlier while the Chibaku Tensei was still very small. It is impossible for that crater to be several tens of kilometers across based on the visuals.
This should be enough to confirm that Kep's results are inflated (not on purpose of course, just as a result of picking a bad reference for scaling).
 
This thread is only supposed to be for the calc group members and the people that they invite for clarifications.
 
Nagato's hideway mountain is hardly far at all from the battlefield. In the very shot where it zooms in you can see mountain ranges in the background. At many points one can see the entire area, and at no point do we ever see said mountain, which would stick out like a sore thumb if it dwarved the others so much, since it is green.

It really makes no sense that this random mountain somehow dwarves all the other mountains in the region by several times when we can clearly see from surrounding context that this isn't the case. Even in the very panel where you can scale the mountain this isn't the case.

Also, no offense, but how can you conceivably post a shot where it can be plainly seen that the incomplete CT, not even a portion of its full size yet, fully dwarves the mountains around the region..and somehow still manage to claim it to be "a few hundred meters"?
 
A possible answer is that the original pixel-scaling is flawed and produced a size for the hill that is larger than it should be.

> Also, no offense, but how can you conceivably post a shot where it can be plainly seen that the incomplete CT, not even a portion of its full size yet, fully dwarves the mountains around the region..and somehow still manage to claim it to be "a few hundred meters"?

If those mountains are only a few hundreds of meters tall, then the Chibaku Tensei may also be around that size. You can also see what looks like rocks with trees on them being dragged up to the Chibaku Tensei.

There is also the issue with the clouds being of comparable height to the Chibaku Tensei.
 
Meaning only that the basis of the size in your depends on a series of pixelscaling to get the height of Nagato's hill. But if the mountains are actually a lot smaller than that, the Chibaku Tensei at that stage being 'a few hundred meters across' isn't so unbelievable.

That was just an estimation by the way, I haven't actually scaled the Chibaku Tensei on that page. It just doesn't look that big considering the rubble flying up to it.

But I think there's still several factors that suggest the size in your version is inflated beyond what it probably should be.
 
One side guesstimates and pulls the mountains being hundreds of meters in size out of nowhere.

The other calculates the mountain's size step-by-step. Which, by the way, if anything the size of Nagato's hill was lowballed as much as reasonable.

You can literally see the normal mountains pretty close to the hill when it is zooming on it, and they dwarf it considerably. Not only that but the hill is quite literally right next to the CT
 
Your "lowballed" scaling for it puts all of the mountains around the crater to be much larger than Mt. Everest, and much larger than every other seen mountain in the series. It also introduces the notion that Pain and Naruto had to travel dozens of kilometers away from the village when Naruto can literally still see the village from the other side of the crater later.

The height of the mountain is an assumption on my version, that's true. But it's not unreasonable.

Even if we don't use that, there's the height of the clouds next to the Chibaku Tensei that we could reasonably assume the height of.

> Not only that but the hill is quite literally right next to the CT

The hill you highlighted on your pixelscaling has not evidence of being the same hill.
 
And, by the way, I do support a slight downgrade to the feat due to the fact it isn't the same hill. But it wouldn't be much of a significant downgrade. Most likely Pain would drop to High 6-C+ to Low 6-B or so. Island level, however, is hilariously low.

> It also introduces the notion that Pain and Naruto had to travel dozens of kilometers away from the village when Naruto can literally still see the village from the other side of the crater later.

A scan that has zero business being used in a debate, unless you want to seriously argue for the crater being barely a kilometer, if not lower than that, and I doubt, reasonably, you would actually try to argue this.

> The height of the mountain is an assumption on my version, that's true. But it's not unreasonable.

So it's not unreasonable that the mountains are barely taller than a fake tree that is barely visible on top of a hill smaller than the mountains themselves, with said hill being barely far from the crater?

> Even if we don't use that, there's the height of the clouds next to the Chibaku Tensei that we could reasonably assume the height of.

Which have no business being used and have been continuously discarded as hilariously inconsistent ever since the first was feat calculated using that method.

> The hill you highlighted on your pixelscaling has not evidence of being the same hill.

Agreed this is the case. Still changes almost nothing, since Nagato himself can see the CT from the hole in the tree, thus proving it is pretty close to the battlefield, and thus the mountains are comparable.
 
> A scan that has zero business being used in a debate, unless you want to seriously argue for the crater being barely a kilometer, if not lower than that, and I doubt, reasonably, you would actually try to argue this.

I didn't say what the size would be relying on that scan, but I don't think we should dismiss it out of hand since it is one of the few visuals we have relating the crater to Konoha.

> Which have no business being used and have been continuously discarded as hilariously inconsistent ever since the first was feat calculated using that method.

Are there any other ways for it to be inconsistent other than in regards to your scaling for Nagato's hill?
 
> I didn't say what the size would be relying on that scan, but I don't think we should dismiss it out of hand since it is one of the few visuals we have relating the crater to Konoha.

It should be entirely dismissed, as literally everything goes against that single scan, no matter what view you're following. No 1km crater.

The cloud scaling was deemed unreliable since way, way before my calc. Ever since this feat was first calc'ed in this wiki, in fact.
 
You keep saying '1 km' crater. Did you work that figure out from the panel or is it an estimate?

I'd like to know the reasons for the cloud scaling is deemed unreliable, if you know them.

I would also say that pixelscaling isn't a 100% guarantee of accuracy either; especially bearing in mind the decision to completely disavow Kubo's visual depiction of the Seireitei in Bleach because of the vast inaccuracies gotten through pixelscaling it.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case here, but it's possible that Kishimoto had made similar mistakes, and we shouldn't treat Nagato's hill as it if it is the only reference possible for determining the size.
 
Has somebody asked ALL of the calc group members, along with DontTalkDT and Antoniofer, to help out with this thread?
 
As I state plainly on my wall, I have absolutely no interest in Naruto, but I will say that Alex's version of the storm calc is more up to code.
 
Well I can comment here because Kep allowed me to. So, yes DMUA is correct. The standard for storm calc changed and Kep's calc used the old one.
 
You can remind the members who haven't commented here yet if you wish. You can tell them that I would appreciate the help.
 
I would appreciate if somebody could remind the still missing calc group members that I would very much appreciate if they help out with properly evaluating this.
 
From what I can tell from the comments so far (and from my discussion with calc group members):

  • My version of Sasuke's Fireball Jutsu, and Alex's version of Jiraiya's Rasengan and Pain's Storm Jutsu are all fine to apply.
  • Kep and Tata have disagreements with my version of Nagato's calc, but Crimson and Ugarik agree that my version is preferable to what we currently use.
    • Kep has also stated that the current version of the calc we use is flawed anyway.
  • No conclusions on the Biju Bomb calcs yet.
 
Okay. Thank you for the information.
 
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