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VOCALOID Upgrade (10-B to 4-A)

Ok, so, i'll make this short.

I've already made a thread about this but sadly, it has been mostly ignored.

To make things even worse, it looks like some people completly didn't understand the content of the topic, questioning me about things that were already adressed in the Opening Post.

More than 1 year later, i'm giving another shot to explain my case. I'll be way more brief and straight to the point. Hoping to clear any doubt.

Establishing the VOCALOID world
VOCALOIDs aren't -just- softwares, they received a proper story in a game called Hatsune Miku: Project Diva X

In the First Cutscene of said game, it is explained that VOCALOID live a in a "digital world" inhabitated by digital singers.

Miku states the following:

"Our music can influence this world, expand it, and fill it with joy and excitement. There's just one little problem. We can't sing on our own. Unless you help us sing, our voices can't be heard" [...] "I know my singing can restore this world and make it a vibrant place"

Then we have an overview on how this word works

"The world is divided into five spaces called Clouds, each giving off a different aura... Cute ; Cool ; Elegant ; Quirck ; Classic ; The clouds are falling dark because we've been unable to sing. To restore their energy, we'll need to generate enough voltage with the power of our music"

What happens when the clouds are falling dark
In the game context, what truly happens is that you're unable to access certain clouds, and thus sing certain songs. So, why does this happen?

In the opening (which seems to be canon to the "plot" by the way) we can see what actually happens when Miku is unable to sing - The whole world gets dark, the music goes away, the light goes away, the audiences goes away, it essentialy becomes empty.

The entirity of this digital world DEPENDS on VOCALOIDs music, The Songs themselves cannot be sung, or act, without the power of the digital singers.

Miku gets the strenght to resolve the situation as soon as the "other Miku" gives her an empty crystal, giving her the chance to sing again. Starting from this moment the VOCALOIDs will sing until everything turns back to normal.

The videos of VOCALOIDS' songs
So, we have essentialy seen that this world depends on VOCALOIDs singing voice. Their voice goes away, then everything goes dark and they can't do a thing about it.

Everything falls apart, and certaing songs cannot even be sing. The stage where they perform goes off.

Once they start singing, though, they discover new songs, make concerts, and even do some weird stuff like teleporting and change personalities

So, what's truly happening here is the following:

The world where Miku lives in depends on her singing, every aspect of it, even things that shouldn't be related to music.

That means that the videos where VOCALOIDs are, and the lyrics of the songs, are not meant to be taken as "true", but as fabrication of their singing.

Everything that happens in the videos happens because the world around Miku is being influenced by her singing, as stated in one of the first cutscenes.


That cannot be otherwise, since VOCALOIDs can dramatically change personality and personal story from one song to another, and some songs, like Holy Lance Explosion Boy, where Len is a manwhore (at the age of 14...), do NOT reflect his attitude during the in-game's cutscenes.

Also, this explains why the more they sing, the more songs they discover, the more clouds they can access, the more dresses they can wear. One could call this a gameplay-mechanic, but the fact this is a music-related world makes all of this very likely.

Changes proposed
Given what I said:

- 4-A Tier (or at least I think, read until the end). This is due to the fact that this whole "VOCALOID Universe" depends on their singing, and as soon as they stop, said universe falls in darkness. I'm not sure on which category such ability should fall: I mean, they are not creating nor destroying an universe, but at the same time, said universe depends on them. Unsure on how this is supposed to be classified.

- Reality Warping, but in a much limited manner. She can do asburd things in PVs (such as the ones debunked here) (and there are various space-related songs) but given the context, this is likely limited by the fact that everything has to be related by the song she's singing.

Weaknesses

- As soons as she can't sing anymore, ALL of her powers are gone.
 
You can use the VOCALOID verse page to find people to ask to comment here.
 
You should also ask some of our administrators and discussion moderators to help with evaluating this: VS Battles Staff
 
Um questions.

How do we know this "digital world" is universe-sized?

Aren't the VOCALOIDS powering the clouds only, even at that one by one?

Seeing the Opening, it seems the VOCALOIDs aren't creating the whole universe from scratch, the stage remains, so whatever they are doing has more to do with hax than AP IMO. So, aren't the clouds themselves responsible for creating the universe, and not Miku?

I reckon the quatifiable feat here is how much energy they are generating to keep the clouds up.
 
Zark2099 said:
Um questions.
How do we know this "digital world" is universe-sized?

Aren't the VOCALOIDS powering the clouds only, even at that one by one?

Seeing the Opening, it seems the VOCALOIDs aren't creating the whole universe from scratch, the stage remains, so whatever they are doing has more to do with hax than AP IMO. So, aren't the clouds themselves responsible for creating the universe, and not Miku?

I reckon the quatifiable feat here is how much energy they are generating to keep the clouds up.
Yay! A proper answer!


Ok, so, starting from the digital world, we do NOT know how big this thing is, if it's actually universe sized, or if it's much, much less. The problem is, we see the universe in her videos, but is it real?

Hello Planet gives us a glimpse of the universe at 4:20, looks more or less the same thing as the real one, problem is that since what happens in Miku's songs' videos is thanks to her singing giving life to her music world, I don't know if that universe that's shown in Hello Planet is actually the digital universe, or something that was made up by her singing. I'm inclined to believe the latter, though, given the context


As for the Clouds, that's how the game explain how this works:

- Clouds need VOLTAGE in order to "work", or else the Cloud falls in Darkness. VOLTAGE is generated by VOCALOIDS' singing abilities. During the game, you sing and fill these things with VOLTAGE, unlocking new songs, new clouds and new stuff


No, I do NOT think that the world was created by the VOCALOIDS. Nothing in the game supports this.

This world seems DEPENDANT on them, it's a different thing. It's like that, if they can't sing, then the CLOUDs lose their power.

But the singers are not the creators. They are much more like a source of power for this digital world.


I put a 3-A as a proposal, but i'm open to suggestions. I'm doing this because I want to remove them out from the Unknown Tier, rather then everything else
 
Okay this may be nitpicky, but we see the earth, and like, a couple of stars. I think Universe is more than that. The digital world may be galaxy sixed for all we know, maybe even far less, like the size of the stadium. I bring this up because the game goes through the pain to say that the game is its own world, and not like, somewhat like earth

3-A seems abit to high for this vague a powerscaling. 3-C is likely the absolute best I'd imagine this tier to be.

So I think the tier should be: Unknow, possibly 3-C

Also, I did the math for the lowest possible scenario. Assuming the world is stadium sized, and they're powering an entire stadium, they're generating approx. 430.555555556 J of energy for every second with their songs. Assuming one song is 5:20 minutes long, they're generating 137777.769167 J for every song. Mid 9-B
 
Ok, so, I checked other possible space-related songs, no one came in mind that might show a greater slice of universe (not as of now at least), so so far i'm fine with 3-C as well.

As long as the premise held by Diva X is recognized, i'm fine with the tiering.


Other opinions?
 
Kepekley is correct regarding our general standards for these types of feats.
 
Well, I definitely see the characters being above 10-B given this information but I am not quite certain how to tier this. The world without the singers goes "dark" you say, but that isn't quite the same as it completely falling apart without them so I don't know if their AP can scale to the world's full size like other "sustains the world" kind of characters.
 
If they are literally lighting up the world, can't that be calced? I'm pretty sure Necrozma had a tier for a very similar feat.
 
As far as I know, Necrozma's feat is being a single object bright enough to light up the universe. I don't know if that same thing quite applies here.
 
I'm fine with the 4-A Tier proposed.


Results about the upgrade:

Agree: 5 (RashFaustinho, Zark, Kepekley, Shadowkbonukohero, Sans)

Neutral / Uncertain / Unknown: 2 (Andytrenom, Ogbunabali)

Disagree: 0
 
After doing a double take, then double taking again, 4-A anime singer is alright, I guess.
 
I think 4-A is the reasonable tier from @Kepekley23's reasons.

I think the weakness is fine. I am neutral about reality warping.
 
Seems alright, so looks like they will be going back to 4-A? Supported by info about their verse being a 4-A cosmology
 
They used to be 4-A, but I recall Matthew Schroeder was the one who downgraded the cast, I will remain neutral for the time.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
They used to be 4-A, but I recall Matthew Schroeder was the one who downgraded the cast, I will remain neutral for the time.
They were 4-A for different reasons than this, reasons that were debunked easily.

Their previous "feats" were based on what they said / what they did in the songs. But the universe has his own lore, and the songs probably don't mean anything anyway since Miku herself acknoledgwes them as "songs", something for entertainement, in that same game they even do concerts. So they shouldn't have been taken literaly in the first place.

What's proposed here is instead based on the lore given by the Diva X game, which establishes some kind of fundation for the universe those virtual singers live in.

PS: Anyway Matt was already notified about this, but I dunno if he'll come.
 
I'll give him some time as he's been real busy as of late and also stressed from time to time. But I'm still neutral for now.
 
Hm... Why would the stars of a digital world be real stars? Anyway, the feat seems legit for this version of Miku but I object to cross-scaling it to all forms of vocaloid from across fiction.

Not sure about the feat's scale tho
 
It is possible for digital stars to be real stars; considering Megaman Battle Network and/or Digimon shenanigans. But I'm also still neutral.
 
Well, this would apply only to CRYPTON's Vocaloids.

So that would be Miku, Rin, Len, Luka, MEIKO... and KAITO, but he doesn't have his own page here.

Doesn't apply to HaChune because she's not a singer in the first place.

Doesn't apply to Lily because she's not part of the group.


Anyway, updating the votes:

Agree: 9 (Rash, Zark, Kepekley, Shadowkbonukohero, Sans, Dargoo, Elizhaa, Czrer, Jacky)

Neutral / Uncertain / Unknown: 4 (Andytrenom, Ogbunabali, DarkDragon, Dark649)

Disagree: 0
 
So, seems most of the people agrees to the upgrade.

Shall we update Miku, Luka, Meiko & Rin/Len's page, or are there other proceedings to follow?
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
Okay. Which staff members agree?
 
Okay. I suppose that it should hopefully be fine then.
 
Well, I am too busy and not knowledgeable enough.
 
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