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Whis vs "The Dog" (SCP-1739)

Obligatory scaling chain for DBS Low 2-Cs

Grand Priest > Whis > SSB Gogeta > LSS1 Broly > SS1 Gogeta >= SS1 Broly > Limit Break Jiren > Full Power Base Jiren > Third UIS Goku >= Beerus > Post-ToP SSB Goku >= Post-ToP SSB Vegeta > Ikari Broly > Hint of true power Jiren > SSBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > Post-2nd UIS SSBKK Goku > LSS2 Kefla > Second UIS Goku > Post-ToP SSG Goku > Anilaza > Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku > Casual Jiren > First UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu (Baseline)
 
And "The Dog" has one simple feat that puts him at the AP advantage. His "shadow" alone can destroy time lines. As in, a baseline Low 2-C is like a shadow
 
1) The Grand Priest is featless so I don't really see the point of using him in Vs. matches.

2) Destroying something "with you shadow" is not quantifiable, as shadows in real life cannot actually cause damage.
 
1) He has scaling out the ass so it can work. also he is the physically strongest low 2-C other than The Dog

2) Its a metaphor. His equivolent of casting a shadow is enough to destroy timelines, but it is not literally a shadow. Its meant to illostrate the power difference on the document. Its not outright quantafiable, but it is enough to illustrate how powerful it is
 
Having a scaling chain behind you doesn't mean a character who is completely featless and has never fought can be used in a fight

Use Whis
 
Shadows don't damage, so that's unquantifiable.

Dialga and Palkia don't really destroy the universe, they simply sustain the structures of space and time respectively.
 
Heartbeats require energy to be executed. Shadows are a result of your body being an obstacle to a light source.
 
DMB 1 said:
Shadows don't damage, so that's unquantifiable.
Dialga and Palkia don't really destroy the universe, they simply sustain the structures of space and time respectively.
Click to expand...
Again, it is not literally a shadow. The difference between "The Dog" and a baseline Low 2-C would be the difference between a dog and their shadow. Even if we cannot put a value on it, it gets the idea across.

If you really wanna try to put a value on it, it would be that he could destroy a universe with the same amount of power or energy that it takes for one of us to disrupt a light source, and the "fallout" of that to disrupt other shadows or the lighting of an area.
 
I mean, as was said before, we cannot put a specific value on it, but the difference between a person and their shadow is pretty massive
 
Like many have said before, destroying a Timeline with your equivalent of a Shadow is unquantifiable. Unless you can quantify it so that this feat is able to stomp regular Low 2-Cs many times over like Whis' scaling chain allows him to, Whis just AP stomps for now.
 
Akreious said:
Like many have said before, destroying a Timeline with your equivalent of a Shadow is unquantifiable. Unless you can quantify it so that this feat is able to stomp regular Low 2-Cs many times over like Whis' scaling chain allows him to, Whis just AP stomps for now.
Click to expand...
And as I have responded before, It is a metaphor. You do not need to put a number on it to understand the difference in power. Read the rest of what I said above.
 
"And as I have responded before, It is a metaphor. You do not need to put a number on it to understand the difference in power. Read the rest of what I said above. "

I know it's a metaphor, but I'm not asking for it to have a specific number on it. Whis can literally breathe on first UIO Goku and he'd die on the spot. You need to show that The Dog actually has the AP required to even harm Whis here.

Just saying it has the AP to tussle with Whis who has a massive Scaling Chain behind him isn't proof. It's even worse with the fact that The Dog's "Shadow" being a metaphor means we don't actually know the mechanics of how it Timeline-Busted. Is it an ability? Is it sheer AP via it's presence? And if the Shadow bit is a metaphor, why does it have Shadow Manipulation? The best we can assume right now is that it's unquantifiably stronger than it's computer form and strong enough to Timeline Bust with it's presence. It being Timeline-Busting with it's Shadow itself is not even a good Metaphor since no actual action is required of someone to create a shadow in real life. The amount of effort it takes to cast a shadow isn't reliant on the person creating the shadow; it's the light source and the literal presence of any thing there. This, again, at best places The Dog at "Timeline Busting with Presence".

That is not high enough to assume that it could realistically harm Whis, who's capable of stomping people (Broly) who's flat superior to others (Limit Breaker Jiren) who stomps others (100% Jiren) who themselves have a massive chain of "You literally cannot harm me as you are".
 
A scaling chain doesn't help when jumping levels of stomps doesn't bring any of them to the point where they could do the equivalent of destroying a baseline low 2-C just by casting their shadow. Breathing is cool, but not as minor as the equivalent of casting a shadow.

I am not "saying" anything beyond scans. I brought proof. Feats and scaling are both valid, and the dog has the previous while whis has the latter. It's an eldritch horror, and the shadow thing best conveys what it is doing. Shadow manipulation is because that is a way to describe his ability. You assume too low. First off, the computer is not a form of the dog, but a mechanism to create timelines that the dog destroys.

Jumping layers of stomp doesn't reach the power difference described in the metaphor.
 
But casting a shadow isn't shadow manipulation. Even if you get a AP value from it somehow, it's not a manipulation of anything in the same way breathing isn't air manipulation.
 
This debacle reminds me of people trying to argue that a multiverse that is described as "countless" is beyond any multiverse with a numeric number.

It is to my knowledge, that we on the wiki are more inclined to believe high definable numbers are superior in strength to vague statements like "countless".


The same would go for The Dog in this case.
 
Also since its a metaphor, why are you trying to make a literal comparison between a person and their shadow?

When people say, "To move Heaven and Earth", they aren't actually talking about moving something that has a comparable weight, just that they are putting their all into whatever they are doing.

All the metaphor is trying to say is that it is very easy for The Dog to destroy a timeline. Which is in contrast to The Computer which can only destroy a timeline one by one. It's just to show an immense growth in power.

It is not saying that the difference is literally like a person and their shadow - which doesn't make any sense anyway.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Except it isn't that vague. We know the power difference. It is the difference between a shadow and the one casting it
Click to expand...
My second post questions such reasoning.
 
Warren Valion said:
Also since its a metaphor, why are you trying to make a literal comparison between a person and their shadow?
When people say, "To move Heaven and Earth", they aren't actually talking about moving something that has a comparable weight, just that they are putting their all into whatever they are doing.

All the metaphor is trying to say is that it is very easy for The Dog to destroy a timeline. Which is in contrast to The Computer which can only destroy a timeline one by one. It's just to show an immense growth in power.

It is not saying that the difference is literally like a person and their shadow - which doesn't make any sense anyway.
Click to expand...
because that is the document did.

That's not the context for it at all actually, not even close. False equivalence.

Nope. The document says that he destroys timelines just by casting his shadow over them, which is in contrast to him actually picking up the Ball. The ease at which he destroys universe is already covered by the dog metaphor, the shadow thing is a literal thing, but a metaphor.

It literally says it destroys universe just by casting its shadow over them. Also, it does make sense. In what way does it not?
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
because that is the document did.

That's not the context for it at all actually, not even close. False equivalence.

Nope. The document says that he destroys timelines just by casting his shadow over them, which is in contrast to him actually picking up the Ball. The ease at which he destroys universe is already covered by the dog metaphor, the shadow thing is a literal thing, but a metaphor.

It literally says it destroys universe just by casting its shadow over them. Also, it does make sense. In what way does it not?
Click to expand...
You are contradicting yourself.

You are saying that the shadow is both a metaphor and is a literal shadow.


If it is a metaphor, then a proper comparison would be when people in fiction say something along the lines of: "The difference in power was like comparing a drop of water to an ocean"

You can calculate the difference between a drop of water and an ocean, but that numerical difference isn't a literal comparison of strength between the two things/people being compared.

The same can be said for The Dog and its shadow.


And if it is a literal shadow, then the comparison is meaningless because shadows aren't cast by a person, but by a light source shining its light on said person or thing.

So a comparison of strength can't be made about a person and their shadow.

What it is likely saying is that The Dog is so strong then when getting close to a universe, to the point where its shadow is cast over the said universe. The universe is destroyed.

The shadow has nothing to do with the person, or "The Dog" in this case, especially considering you said earlier that his shadow doesn't have any special properties which he controls - that it is just a shadow.
 
No, you simply misunderstood, or perhaps I was not clear.

The shadow is a metaphor, but the fact that he casts his equivalent of a shadow is literal.


We both know it is unreasonable to ask for a specific writing style or phrasing from a verse. The fact that he casts his equivalent of a shadow is literal, and the power difference is clear but not quantifiable. The statement was made by a serious research doctor as well, on an official document.


It is not a literal shadow, but it is his equivalent of one. If you want to get technical, a shadow is an essentially 2D object cast by a higher being, and it works by comparison. You are reading more of your own interpretations and taking it as fact then I ever did, and are making far more assumptions.

It is his equivalent of a shadow, not a literal one.
 
I interpreted your words in two ways - the literal and metaphorical:

In the metaphorical, I explained that you can't literally make the comparison between a person and their shadow when the metaphor just means the difference is really big.

The difference between a drop of water and an ocean being a common example of a similar metaphor. It just means that there is a large discrepancy in power, but not a literally numerical difference between a drop of water and the ocean - the same can be said for The Dog and its shadow. You can't take the comparison literally, its a metaphor.


In the literal, I told you that the comparison is meaningless because a shadow, or whatever equivalent of a shadow that this being has, isn't what is causing the destruction of the timeline - because that's not how shadows work unless they were magical or something, which you explicitly said it wasn't. Shadows don't cause anything, they are the lack of light, they are the lack of a cause.


I literally broke down the two ways you told us to think about this, and you say I am making assumptions and am misconstrued on the nature of The Dog's shadow. How am I reading my interpretation when I am going off of what you said?


Also, what are you talking about, shadows and darkness are the total or partial absence of light.

They aren't 2-D objects cast upon by higher beings. Shadows aren't an object or a thing, they are the lack of a thing or object - light.
 
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