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A Retriever tries to get back a Demon Hunter (Dante vs Ban Midou)

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Sooo... Ban equalizes himself, Dante is an overall more skilled and better equipped fighter, but there's still the Jagan and Ban eventually becoming faster.

But can Dante surpass Ban's logic of "I can't lose" and avoid getting logic haxed?
 
TartaChocholate said:
But can Dante surpass Ban's logic of "I can't lose" and avoid getting logic haxed?
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Resistance to law, fate and prob negg "i can't lose" pretty hard considering that we treat GB as baseline 2-A until we get actual proof, whereas Dante is pretty freaking high into 2-A. And resistance to info manip negs logic hax.

Also Turning Circle also inflicts all wounds back. (Not attack reflection, wound reflection, as in, if you pierce his stomach, he'll come out fine and you'll have a hole in yours).

So yeah Turning Circle, Jagan and Angel Arm asclepius will work.
 
His resistance to mind manip should be enough to deal with jagan, his speed bost should be a problem if the fight last longer than simply "Dante breathing too hard at him" wich also covers his power boost since I really doubt he could close such gap between them.

I dunno if Turning Circle would work since he resist status effect inducement, so his power should not be equalized, also does that thing work if you are reduced to nothing?
 
1. Jagan isn't mind manip, so that makes the resistance useless. If you've ever checked a Ban fight you'll see that people with 8D resistances like Lucetta couldn't resist the Jagan and same for Enlil with his High 1-B stuff. Jagan works by creating showing the other person another world. If the other person believes it (which Dante will) he's screwed (easy as that), Ban will be able to do anything he wants and Dante will be unable to resist it's effects as he's inducing his effects on himself.

So basically, Dante looks at Ban, he sees that Ban is dead, the fight is over, he goes home...self BFR, or anything else Ban can make him believe. Careful though effects induced by the Jagan are "self inflicted" so it works weirdly with resistances, not to mention that stuff like "making him believe the fight ended" cannot be exactly resisted.

Anyway my point, no, the jagan won't be resisted.

2. Turning Spell is self inflicted. I mean Ban uses turning circle on himself to make himself equal to Dante, he doesn't reduce Dante's stat to low 2-C.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
1. Jagan isn't mind manip, so that makes the resistance useless. If you've ever checked a Ban fight you'll see that people with 8D resistances like Lucetta couldn't resist the Jagan and same for Enlil with his High 1-B stuff. Jagan works by creating showing the other person another world. If the other person believes it (which Dante will) he's screwed (easy as that), Ban will be able to do anything he wants and Dante will be unable to resist it's effects as he's inducing his effects on himself.
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I'm pretty sure that should only be classified as mind hax or perception Manipulation
 
Firephoenixearl said:
We have already classified it. It's reality warping. It creates a virtual world so that it can fool you.
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What does this have to do with Dante being an entire temporal dimension above Ban?
 
RebubleUselet said:
Wait, isnt' Ban 3-D or something? Pretty sure he won't even see Dante.
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Well considering how gross GetBackers gets with "Above space and time" in the manga i wouldn't say that. (stuff like he goes back to his old self so much so that he doesn't consider the past past, and like literally a whole arc full of claims of time and space transcendence).

Also Dante being 4D doesn't somehow stop him from looking into Ban's eyes.
 
RebubleUselet said:
It does though.

Also, if Ban is actually 4-D, then he should be Immeasurable in speed.
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Nah, not really, Dante can still see Ban, that's enough to trigger the Jagan. Ban's powers are still 4D so it doesn't rly help.

Let's just say stuff like that was...dismissed cus the author didn't seem to know what he was talking about. Can we just keep it at that?
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Nah, not really, Dante can still see Ban, that's enough to trigger the Jagan. Ban's powers are still 4D so it doesn't rly help.

Let's just say stuff like that was...dismissed cus the author didn't seem to know what he was talking about. Can we just keep it at that?
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Well, normally he wouldn't see him. But considering the author threw that out of the window, idk
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Immesurable doesn't always mean 4D. You can be immesurable without being 4D.
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Didn't know that. Although, Thor's file says this:

(As a powerful demon god, Thor is beyond time and physics altogether, and is superior to Loki)

Pretty sure this implies he's 4-D
 
RebubleUselet said:
Firephoenixearl said:
Immesurable doesn't always mean 4D. You can be immesurable without being 4D.
Click to expand...
Didn't know that. Although, Thor's file says this:
(As a powerful demon god, Thor is beyond time and physics altogether, and is superior to Loki)

Pretty sure this implies he's 4-D
Click to expand...
That's thor, yeah beyond time would be 4D, what's your point? This is Dante.
 
RebubleUselet said:
And you fight Thor literally right before Dante in Nocturne.
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Doesn't mean anything. Dante can have higher 2-A potency while still being 3D and immesurable. So it's not exactly scalable.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Doesn't mean anything. Dante can have higher 2-A potency while still being 3D and immesurable. So it's not exactly scalable.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? If Hito fought Thor, who's 4-D, and Dante battled Hito right after that, doesn't it mean that Dante should be 4-D as well?
 
RebubleUselet said:
What are you talking about? If Hito fought Thor, who's 4-D, and Dante battled Hito right after that, doesn't it mean that Dante should be 4-D as well?
Click to expand...
No, as i said. Dante can be 3D but have 2-A AP. 2-A AP will allow him to fight and destroy Hito who just destroyed a 4D character. Doesn't mean Dante scales in dimensions, he only scales in AP, but dimensions don't scale to AP (AP scales to dimensions only, not vice versa).
 
Firephoenixearl said:
No, as i said. Dante can be 3D but have 2-A AP. 2-A AP will allow him to fight and destroy Hito who just destroyed a 4D character. Doesn't mean Dante scales in dimensions, he only scales in AP, but dimensions don't scale to AP (AP scales to dimensions only, not vice versa).
Click to expand...
Dante wouldn't be able to percieve Hito if he was 3-D though. That makes no sense.

Also, you wanna argue that the strongest Fiend in the game is 3-D while your average Demon God is 4-D for reasons above?
 
Dude, 1-C Nanashi is 3-D before taking YHVH's role.

It's absolutely possible for Dante to be 3-D while being 2-A
 
You could say the same of a human killing higher dimensional beings, but SMT is quite literally built around that.

Also, burden of proof that he is 4-D is on you.

Nanashi's profile literally says that he is higher dimensional only after becoming the Creator
 
Don't know the game so i can't argue, but 1) according to Kal Dante is 3D with 2-A AP and immesurable speed.

2) I already explained that GetBackers gets too gross with time and space transcendence (People could move upwards the stream of time while being constantly stated to be above time and space, but since their immesurable speed and time space transcendence looks a bit...well...weird, as it doesn't work by our standards of immesurable, we had to dismiss that).

3) Ban's power is 4D and 4D existence may prevent Ban from percieving Dante, but Dante can still percieve Ban just fine, which means the Jagan will work.

4) Yes the strongest fiend can be 3D when the average is 4D for the same reason why The Archiver is 4D, but there are stronger people like The Witch Quee, Ban Midou and Akabane Kuroudo who are still 3D.

5) Since SMT has already done that, can't argue that the same can be for Dante. If anything it means we can't just add another infinity to his dimensionality, just because it seems to make more sense. Burden of proof would have to be on the 4D Dante.
 
I'm not even saying that he is necessarily 3-D. I'm just saying that "he is stronger than someone who is 4-D" isn't proof of being 4-D, it's like saying that all the tier 2 people in Dragon Ball are 4-D because they are stronger than a 4-D
 
Kaltias said:
I'm not even saying that he is necessarily 3-D. I'm just saying that "he is stronger than someone who is 4-D" isn't proof of being 4-D, it's like saying that all the tier 2 people in Dragon Ball are 4-D because they are stronger than a 4-D
Click to expand...
And I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that a character who's 3-D physically cannot interact with a 4-D character.
 
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