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Silver Surfer vs Martian Manhunter

Ok let's do it, Silver Surfer...is to OP, I mean the guy literally was atomically destroyed, plus didn't he fight off Galactus' mind hax (might be thinking of something else), plus Silver Surfer doesn't look at a fight like you or I, he looks at a fight on how a god would handle it, plus the power cosmic is extremely powerful, Martian Manhunter has some amazing abilities, but I simply don't see him best Silver Surfer, and good thing this isn't bloodlusted cause then you could pretty much throw out any chance of MM winning, he has resistences to many of MM abilities while MM doesn't really resist any of Silver Surfer
 
Zell "Abilities" is pretty vague anything in specific that you would know to be effective in this bout against J'onn?
 
Let's start off with good ol precog, he can see the past, present, and future, he has amazing matter manipulation, he has biological manipulation, letting him basically do with Martian Manhunter whatever he wants, illusion creation to fool with him, he resist MM mind manip and has it himself (though MM resists as well), he has soul manipulation and I don't recall MM having that but will correct if he does, he has life manipulation, he can seal him in his board as he did with captain marvel, he can absorb energy from the stars themselves or people, honestly when it comes to Silver Surfer, unless he's up against someone with as many good abilities as he does, really you don't need to add anything, honestly this seems like a stomp, I don't see MM doing anything really to him
 
MM has the same problem as Superman in that he probably can't permanently put down SS physically, but apparently MM has some hugely powerful mindhax that affects 2-A DC characters though, in which case I'd vote for him if someone could bring up the proof.
 
2A mindhax was debunked but I highly doubt Surfer has the resistance needed
 
Norrin resisted a psychic assault from Moondragon (an already ridiculous telepath) while the latter was amped by the Mind Gem.

I'd already have put anyone with the Mind Gem over J'onn, but if you want a straightforward scaling feat, Moondragon with the Mind Gem had the psychic power to put Charles Xavier in a coma.
 
I should also point out (for those unfamiliar with Marvel and DC) that Charles has nearly identical telepathic feats to what J'onn has done. Aside from J'onn's feat of telepathically and subconsciously preventing the entire Martian race from ascending to the afterlife (which is the one thing I'd say is objectively superior to anything Charles has managed), they've both done a lot of the exact same things; contacting people across star systems, affecting the entire planet's population at once, punking other planetary telepaths in mental battles, and even weaponizing the entire collective consciousness of the Earth against an opponent. (J'onn did it VS another Martian, and Charles did it VS Ego the Living Planet IIRC)

And Moondragon with the Mind Gem is far above that level. Which should really be a given even without the feat VS Prof. X, because this is the Mind Gem we're talking about here.
 
He has the advantage in just about everything that matters, really.

Regen on Norrin's level means J'onn has exactly two ways to put him down (matter manipulation and soulhax), with the latter being a thing he was doing subconsciously and generally not being something he would do particularly early on.

Senses-wise, Norrin is the guy who can track molecules from across galaxies, among other things. He also has precognition and postcognition, which MM doesn't have any way of mitigating. He's going to see J'onn coming and act accordingly before J'onn has even the barest idea of what he's dealing with.

Add that to him having far more ways to put MM down than vice-versa and, well...yeah.
 
I'm really wondering if this might be a stomp, tbh.

I mean, looking at it realistically, J'onn's chances are downright grim, if not completely nonexistent. You're putting a guy with amazing telepathy against a guy with amazing everything. And resistance to better telepathy.
 
Norrin's regen maxes out at atomic IIRC. Manhunter's matter hax with Martian Vision is subatomic.

That said, that's exactly one power. Whereas Surfer has a good couple dozen that'll kill J'onn pretty damn hard. And precognition.
 
I still think this is probably a stomp. But if not, Norrin low-diffs for the reasons I've already given.
 
This is more than likely a stomp.

Even if MM can get around SS's regen, SS can still fight without a body. Also, not only does he have Precog, he's got Cosmic Awareness, meaning he can even deduce that MM is weak to fire.

I don't see how MM really deals with him tbh.
 
TheC2 said:
This is more than likely a stomp.

Even if MM can get around SS's regen, SS can still fight without a body. Also, not only does he have Precog, he's got Cosmic Awareness, meaning he can even deduce that MM is weak to fire.

I don't see how MM really deals with him tbh.
Click to expand...
In fact, he has used his Cosmic Awareness like that once, when he found Gladiator's weakness with Power Cosmic.

This really seems like a stomp.
 
is MM 2A mindhax an outlier or not?doesnt really matter since surfer stomps anyway.
 
2-A mindhax is definitely inconsistent with his normal showings, yes.

If you'll notice, even when I was scaling J'onn's mindhax to the Spectre (which, in retrospect, is wrong), I was never one of the people claiming his mindhax was Tier 2 because of that. Particularly because, even if he does scale, the Spectre is one of the most inconsistent characters in DC, and is just as likely to be portrayed as Tier 4 as he is to be portrayed as Tier 2.

Spectre's profile wasn't even hardline 2-A when that claim was made, anyway. This was back when he was "Unknown, likely 2-A at his peak".
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
2-A mindhax is definitely inconsistent with his normal showings, yes.

If you'll notice, even when I was scaling J'onn's mindhax to the Spectre, I was never one if the people claiming his mindhax was Tier 2 because of that. Particularly because, even if he does scale, the Spectre is one of the most inconsistent characters in DC, and is just as likely to be portrayed as Tier 4 as he is to be portrayed as Tier 2.
Click to expand...
Batman level Spectre tho.
 
Surfer is said to have better Mind Hax because of his witshstanding Mind hax from Moondragon with the Mind Stone (Which should be above Xavier who has mind haxed a higher dimensional being allegedly)
 
i wanna say SS fra, since i dont know much about either, but am unfortunetly a fan of both lol but i have a question, which has the higher AP? i only follow the verses for fun every like, 5 years lol so i miss a looooooooot of stuff lol
 
Pretty sure Manhunter has double the AP (Due to the hax tho it's not as big a factor as it normally is)
 
IIRC, MM is like around 615 kilofoe. SS is around 387. So, MM is about 1.6 times stronger. It's not really much to write home about.
 
well, he could knock him out with a good hit tho, right? so its this a 'whoever strikes first wins' contest?
 
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