Sonic Vs. Chocobo

I´m glad this hasn´t been done until now.

Both at High 6-A, speed equalized.

The blue blur: 7 (AildeDens, VioletVoid100, GlaceonGamez471, MYHERO, Maverick Zero X, ShadowWarior1999, Jasonsith)

The yellow bird: 0

Incon: 0


You´re too slow!


Kweh!

Sonic the Hedgehog will easily win.

...Reason?

Because Sonic's speed is faster than warp speed. His speed is so great that he possesses unlimited speed. If he is fighting against Chocobo, Sonic will easily stun him and win.

But speed is equalized.

Sonic has experienced combat skills, so Sonic win.

"Chocobo possesses human-like intelligence despite being an animal and is a skilled spelunker, dungeon-delver, puzzle-solver, card game player, treasure hunter, and fighter. He's mastered skills across a variety of disciplines (despite the fact that said skills were originally intended for use by humans) and defeated the Guardian Beasts, powerful entities who have existed and protected the Oracles for thousands of years, despite not being very old himself."

That good. He can at least be a slight challenge for Sonic, but Sonic will win.

Bump.

Bump.

Both of them have similar abilities and such and their experiences and intellect are tied, however Sonic seems to have the better edge in intelligence and experience imo. He has resistance to Status Ailments with immunity idol and paralysis inducement too. His wisps can either transmutate it to blue rings, erase it, or turn it into matter. He has superior Time Manipulation, his shields, and his invincibility monitor too.

Imo Sonic takes this with some diff.

Sonic FRA

I agree with VioletVoid100.

Sonic could use the Magic Hands and one shot. He's also got the Wisps, his own status ailments, and Sonic is just a better fighter. My vote goes to Sonic.

Bump

Sonic FRA

Sonic fra

Sonic FRA, nothing really to add here.

Sonic FRA, 24 hours left to add here.

Looking into it, in theory, Chocobo could win by retreating & planning cleverly.

Victory Conditions: Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

If Sonic can't get to Chocobo for over a day, that would fulfill a win condition, I believe?

First off, looking at the profile's Powers & Abilities & how it cites ALL of Chocobo's Jobs/Classes, saying "Possesses a wide of variety of techniques from the following jobs:" (And then it lists all the classes.)

Two good opening moves are actually the Scholar Class's basic skill & the White Mage's ultimate: Gauge (The in-game description of which is "Learn everything about one foe.".) & Raise.

If Gauge told Chocobo about Sonic's Time Manipulation, that'd be great, but even without that, I doubt it's Sonic's first resort; AFAIK, he doesn't use Chaos Emeralds on basic enemies, & even against bosses, he usually uses them for the statistics amp; I dunno of many fights where Sonic in base uses Time Stop right away or even often. He COULD, but it's unlikely.

Using Escape (In-game, random within Dungeon Floor.) or Teleport (In-game, out of the Dungeon entirely.), Chocobo could teleport away from Sonic, & Sonic may not know where Chocobo went even if he did have a Chaos Emerald (In Sonic's base, CE are only "sometimes" equipment, apparently.)

Failing that, Chocobo can use the Brooch of Memories to go into the dreams of a sleeping being (Surely there's other life in New York's Central Park; Or, Chocobo could try unleashing a devastating/distracting Magicite summo , put the summon to sleep, then go into the summon's dreams.), putting something other than Sonic (Immunity Idol, which Chocobo might know about because Gauge.).

Sonic's only Dimensional Travel feats are going back to his home dimension, & his teleportation in bas is only hundreds of meters, & I doubt he's used it well on someone unwilling he doesn't know the location of, & speed is equalized.

Pursuit could be difficult, since Sonic would have to find wherever "outside the Dungeon" is (Outside the battle location, I assume; For use of Teleport.) or find a specific some person or monster at random who's asleep.

Or if it was a summon, he loses the chance to pursue the moment the summon leaves/despawns with Chocobo in the dream of the summon, since Chocobo may be in the dream of a being in another universe, & Sonic hasn't show Dimensional Travel except to his own home world.

From there, Chocobo can leave the dreams/memories by completing the dungeon inside -which also tend to contain supplies, with or without enemies, like Potions, Ethers, Gysahl Greens (food), etc.- & even have safety.

So even if Sonic DID get into the dream of a Summon or whatever, Chocobo could be revived through Raise if killed, then Teleport, set up Raise, & repeat.

Even if Sonic takes less than 24 hours chasing down Chocobo, it still has time to set up Speed & other buffs on itself, use Scholar's Search or Thief's Alert to be able to track anything in whatever area it is in, & prepare an ambush, either through buffed movement, unleashing Summons when Sonic arrives, or even trying to rob Sonic of his Chaos Emerald, Immunity Idol, or other equipment, given Chocobo has mastered several Thief skills, robbing Sonic.


TL;DR - Chocobo could win by learning about Sonic via Gauge, retreating with any of several Teleportation abilities &/or Summoning, then waiting him out for 24 hours; Sonic likely won't have a clue where Chocobo's teleport took it (One exits the current battle location, effectively, the other is random within it.) & the time bought will allow Chocobo to prepare speed & AP buffs on itself, set up tracking on Sonic, & prepare self-Resurrection. If Chocobo can get any being to hide in the Dreams of -or use a Magicite Summon that will go somewhere else after the Summon ends- that makes it even more difficult, as Sonic likely will have trouble finding it, & if he doesn't know of it, has no reason to attack a sleeping opponent he doesn't know has any relation to Chocobo.

And yes, Chaos Emerald Time Stops, but this match uses Base Sonic who only has CEs "Sometimes" & while Wisps are powerful, they're living beings. IC, I'd assume Sonic would hesitate to kill Wisps for a fight if he wasn't sure he needed to, & he may not find that out.

Ultimately, with proper planning & navigation, Chocobo can avoid Sonic for the 24 hours needed to win, & even if he does find Chocobo, it will likely have an ambush ready with several buffs, summons, self-resurrection, means of stealing Sonic's Emerald or Immunity Idol, etc. & items of its own ready.

Meaning if Sonic does give chase he could be walking into a very bad situation, as his usual IC tactics may not prepare him to being outspeed & outforced by an opponent he was just chasing.

And Sonic may not even be able to GIVE chase, as again, his Dimensional Travel has only taken him to his own world; He might not know how to get into or out of dreams.

But Chocobo can enter & exit them much easier, & as long as it can evade Sonic for 24 hours, it wins by SBA. Also, if he did get there, a stat-amped Chocobo could ambush him in such a hideout to rob him, it could steal Sonic's CE or Immunity Idol, then hit him with Sleep, Slow, Stun, Blind & such, or use his Time Stop, & still have a Resurrection of its own ready. And it could use Search or Alert to track Sonic in the Dungeon before Chocobo's in Sonic's sights to better ready the ambush.

No. Retreating for a day doesn't sound like a valid win condition.

Wouldn't Choco BFR himself if he did that? Lol

When your TL;DR is as long as your previous statement

Maverick Zero X wrote:
No. Retreating for a day doesn't sound like a valid win condition.

It leaves Sonic unable to harm Chocobo. If he doesn't fight, one outlives the other eventually. (Both are young, however, with no types of Immortality, so it's unclear who, however.)

I'm not sure it counts as BFR if they have a way to leave. (Chocobo can leave the dreams it enters.) Plus, going there yourself isn't being removed from the battlefield your opponent.

If Sonic does give chase, he's set up to be ambushed by an opponent twice his speed with several buffs, tracking on him when he enters, may have Summons ready, an automatic resurrection, & assuming the Dream is a Mystery Dungeon (As it is in the games where the Brooch of Memories originate from.) there would be the usual dungeon hazards; Even without enemies, there would likely be several traps Chocobo could know about -via Scholar & Thief skills- & take advantage of.

@Zark2099 I admit, I didn't format my argument perfectly. (But I doubt your point is meant to be that the argument is invalidated by being too verbose.)

Maverick Zero X said:

No. Retreating for a day doesn't sound like a valid win condition.

Click to expand...

It leaves Sonic unable to harm Chocobo. If he doesn't fight, one outlives the other eventually. (Both are young, however, with no types of Immortality, so it's unclear who, however.)

I'm not sure it counts as BFR if they have a way to leave. (Chocobo can leave the dreams it enters.) Plus, going there yourself isn't being removed from the battlefield your opponent.

If Sonic does give chase, he's set up to be ambushed by an opponent twice his speed with several buffs, tracking on him when he enters, may have Summons ready, an automatic resurrection, & assuming the Dream is a Mystery Dungeon (As it is in the games where the Brooch of Memories originate from.) there would be the usual dungeon hazards; Even without enemies, there would likely be several traps Chocobo could know about -via Scholar & Thief skills- & take advantage of.

IMHO, it's also questionable if Sonic can give chase, & whether or not he can enter dreams, if he can leave dreams to go to worlds except his home world, .

@Zark2099 I admit, I didn't format my argument perfectly. (But I doubt your point is meant to be that the argument is invalidated by being too verbose.)

Again; no. The win condition you excerpted refers to incapacitation, not retreating.

"incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day"

Let's not take things out of context just to squeeze out a win condition. Is it even in-character for Chocobo to flee and remain in hiding in order to evade confrontation?

Retreat isn't stated as a lose condition, & in this case, Sonic being unable to harm an opponent is a product of said opponent's actions.

Alternatively, it can be used as an ambush tactic; Teleport away from the fight, set-up speed, AP & Defensive buffs, use skills to be able to track items & traps. Once Search/Alert tells Chocobo Sonic is near, use a Summon & then use Mug or Steal to take his equipment while he's dealing with the Summon.

I can say that Chocobo is a highly skilled Scholar, & multiple types of Mages, & has at least 1 ability that needs to be outside of combat to use & multiple classes have means of leaving a Dungeon. Getting a distance to prepare or retreating from a tough fight doesn't seem entirely out of the question.

But if you want a different approach: Chocobo outranges.

Sonic:

Range: Standard melee range. Extended melee range with Caliburn. Hundreds of meters with his abilities and Color Powers.

Chocobo:

Range: Melee range with kicks, Varies from several meters to dozens of kilometers with magic and physical projectiles, hundreds to thousands of kilometers with summoning magicites

Teleporting out of range would give it time to set up & assault Sonic from afar with magic, projectiles & Summons.

Retreat isn't stated as a win condition, either.

Please cite a time where Chocobo exits combat in order avoid confrontation or stage an ambush. This honestly sounds like grasping at straws.

My point isn't that retreat is a Win Condition; It's that retreating is part of an action that leaves Sonic unable to harm his opponent for a long time, because of actions said opponent took; The likely result seemingly being Sonic ends up with little idea where his opponent is, how to get there, how to attack his opponent, & how to leave if he gets there.

ANYWAY....

Would having abilities specifically to exit a dungeon you're fighting in not be precedent enough for using teleportation that way? Wouldn't having abilities that you can only use outside of combat indicate it'd need to not be fighting to use them? Would an intelligent, experienced fighter, spelunker, adventurer & multi-disciplinary with high range magic not think to get out of range of an opponent rushing at it?

When has Sonic used Time Stop against bosses or minor enemies in canonical story scenes? There's also the matter of him often needing a Chaos Emerald for such moves, & he may not have such equipment in his current key.

And even if Chocobo DIDN'T decide to teleport to get distance or stealth or preptime against a speedy, mostly close combat fighter, Sonic won't have an easy time dealing with a summon that's on par with his opponent, who may also try to steal his equipment.

Phoenix casts Raise & Curaga on Chocobo (& presumably attacks, but the Wiki lacks info, unfortunately.).

And Leviathan could likely drown Sonic, given it has hundreds to thousands of KM range & attacks with a tsunami. He's less mobile in water, the tide could forcefully move him or go against his movements (And it's coming from a High 6-A force.) & would likely be difficult to exit because of the sheer size of the area the water covers.

And Alexander is on a similar level of power & range, but attacks with Light.

Said summons are also likely on Chocobo's level, or close to it, as part of Chocobo's High 6-A, possibly higher rating comes from scaling to fighting them as bosses.

Chocobo can also use the summons attacking as an opportunity to attack or steal from Sonic if he tries to fight or defend against them, & it can use several abilities (Quick Step, or items (Depending on if "miscellaneous equipment" refers to stuff like Haste Drink.) to be able to take more actions, for extra attacks or chances to steal while Sonic deals with the summon.

Has he or has he not fought in the manner you claim will result in his victory? If he has, cite such instances. If he hasn't, please stop with the gish gallop and loaded questions and just drop the argument.

Sonic has only occasionally used Chaos Control for its time manipulation properties, but he did spam Time Break in Secret Rings + used it in a cutscene: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fzs8gqmcE4E

Sonic can counter his Summons via the High 6-A Wisps which also have a ton of durability-negating powers.

Retreat still isn't a win condition btw

You say so, but Incapacitation literally means "to make incapable (of doing something)". If going somewhere else & staying there renders the opponent unable to harm their opponent for over a day, then why do you think it isn't a win condition according to SBA?

As for IC, I haven't played all of the Chocobo's Dungeon's games, & I hardly remember the cutscenes of what I did play. I am sorry that I can't provide a more detailed reply on that topic.

In any case, why do you think an intelligent, highly experienced fighter would NOT keep distance against a close combat opponent, while themselves using high range moves? Or do so to get out of range of special attacks? Even if it's not the initial strategy, it's a reasonable one, especially with knowledge of the opponent granted by Gauge.

Also, even if Sonic does use Wisps, Summoning isn't one of his abilities, & he consumes Wisps to use them; He'd still be fighting outnumbered, & his opponent can be resurrected by abilities of their own, their summon, or their possible equipment.

Sonic also runs into issues if Chocobo can steal (Via Thief skills.) his Chaos Emerald or Immunity Idol. The latter especially, since that exposes him to a myriad of status effects.

Here's my last comment. Tired of going in circles and this can be added in a few hours anyhow.

Maverick Zero X said:

"incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day"

Let's not take things out of context just to squeeze out a win condition.

Click to expand...

^This obviously refers to BFR or obstructing the opponent's movements.

If you can't provide instances of Chocobo fighting in that manner then it's a no go. Repeating yourself isn't helping your case.

Sonic doesn't "consume" Wisps. He briefly absorbs them into himself, but they exit his body after the Color Power subsides (then they can be re-activated).

Sonic isn't going to allow Chocobo to steal from him. Even if that happened, how would Chocobo randomly learn to manipulate Chaos Energy?

"^This obviously refers to BFR or obstructing the opponent's movements."

BFR is covered in Standard Battle Assumptions. It's a different victory condition.

Victory Conditions: Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

I can try to gather instances of Chocobo fighting in that manner (Albeit, 7 hours is not much time to find & look through multiple cutscenes in multiple FF games....) but why do you insist that such tactics are invalid for someone reasonable & intelligent who has moves supported by or based on such tactics?

Heck, the Teleportation is quite specific in its use; Escape is specifically "Warp to random location on the same floor." & "Escape from the dungeon.", & AFAIK, cannot be used in the town/overworld for no explained reason.

If the issue is needing more than gameplay, as in cutscenes showing the use of it, then what about Sonic? He's had Wisps in many games & has plenty of gameplay options based on using them. But for those that you want to say he'd use in this fight, which has he used in a cutscene? I will admit, checking the Wiki, my memory was erroneous about how Wisps are used. But, IIRC, he still never has them fight alongside him, only transform him.

Stealing isn't a matter of permission if it can be done. If you're distracted by an opponent's summon/teammate/move/whatever, they attack you from out of your field of view, or they're fast or skilled enough, stealing from someone is a possibility. Especially if you're advocating Chocobo WOULDN'T try to put distance between itself & Sonic, meaning he'd likely get close enough for it to happen.

As for the Chaos Emerald, Sonic not having access to it is plenty useful, even if Chocobo doesn't use Chaos Control. Likewise, Sonic not being protected against status by the Immunity Idol is also helpful.

The reason for Chocobo sounds so wrong lol.

I gave multiple reasons. (Ex: Chocobo outranging, ambush tactics, Leviathan's huge mass of water possibly drowning Sonic, summons meaning multiple opponents to deal with, being able to Haste itself among other stat amping, stealing as a means to get rid of Sonic's CE or Status Effect Resistance....) Also, I've been looking up boss battles from one of the games because of the debate with Maverick. As far as I've seen, Chocobo isn't depicted fighting; The cutscenes have dialogue from others & Chocobo is almost always idle & largely silent, not taking action, outside of player-dictated action to defeat the boss. But definitely not all the cutscenes, so still more I should look at.

I for one am conflicted

But most of that stuff you said takes prep and exiting the battle like that sounds so out of place for this matchup or any matchup. Also, you still think Sonic can't do anything once he's underwater? Like he got shields, wisps, adapted to watery bosses and environments before, etc. Also Chocobo's is the equivalent of Big Bird from Sesame Street lol.

Outranging takes preparation when it has several spells/abilities that are teleportation either to a random location, or to exit a Dungeon entirely? Spells that presumably, make Chocobo leave the area altogether? Summoning only requires using a Magicite Crystal. Several spells/abilities grant Haste. Stealing can be done in close combat, if the conditions are right, & Haste providing extra actions helps that.

And I know Sonic isn't HELPLESS in the water. But IIRC, isn't he slowed down & made more floaty? It won't help him move if Leviathan is sending hundreds to thousands of KM ranges of water with High 6-A force at him.

"Also Chocobo's is the equivalent of Big Bird from Sesame Street lol." What's this supposed to mean? If it's about water, Chocobo went through a whole dungeon & fought Leviathan at the bottom of the ocean; It's not helpless underwater.

Also, I'll admit, his Wisp transformations can help mobility underwater, but aren't most of Sonic's Shields one hit?

Bump