Questioning Masadaverse's outerversal rating

So I have read Dies Irae; rea route and marie route, and yet I can't find a single scan supporting that they are 1-A. "Hyperdimensional Throne"(meaning above dimensional structures) are you referring to when Mercurius used Omni Fert Aetas in Rea Route? I never found that scan but I did found the japanese version of it from youtube but since I can't understand japanese, can you support how does it make "above dimensional structures in context" by underlining the important things and a translated version of it?

In the Masadaverse explanation page, under the Throne explanation part, it states "Heaven (what Hadou Gods are called) is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, everything and nothing, they are what precedes duality." I didn't find this or anything remotely close to this in Dies Irae so I'm assuming it's from KKK? Where's the scan(with translation ofc) that states/implies they are the "alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, everything and nothing, they are what precedes duality."

Most importantly, where does it state that the weakest Hadou God see the Throne as a tool? It didn't state that in Dies Irae nor there are "weakest Hadou God" in Dies Irae because the H.G. are only Reinhard and his legion, Mercurius, Ren, Marie and Shirou. I'm guessing this is from KKK as well. A scan with translated text with context is required to clear my doubt.

Lastly about Taikyoku value and "transcendence" above baseline. Every outerversal matchup I saw is about this, I'm not discarding it but I'm questioning about Masadaverse's transcendence from baseline outerversal. Where does it state that a difference of 1 represents a level of transcendence or something similar? Taikyoku values, I have seen the atwiki page and yet I couldn't find from the table, Reinhard's, Ren's, Mercurius', Marie's Taikyoku value that they have 80-90. All I see are ranging from 10-70, 100(likely to be Yato's) and something is labelled as ???(probably Hajun's).

Bump

You need to wait at least 6 hours to bump.

For the question, not sure. A blog with scans and all was supposed to be made, but I don't think it was done yet.

Phoenix821 said:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Masadaverse_Explanation_Page

Click to expand...

Linking me to a page in which I have repeatedly read is irrelevant especially when I read Rea and Marie route, the main routes where the Hadou Gods fought. What I'm asking for is scans for the things I've mentioned.

Taikyou is indeed something that makes you transcend those of lower level. It's shown that if you don't have similar Taiykou, you either Rolf them or get completely stomped under the pavement.

Dunno about the throne though, I don't know nearly enough of the series.

Ricsi-viragosi said:

You need to wait at least 6 hours to bump.

For the question, not sure. A blog with scans and all was supposed to be made, but I don't think it was done yet.

Click to expand...

Many are questioning this too from across the internet not just me, just a little fyi, the nonexistence of the scans that is supposed to be supporting this, just makes room for doubt.

The stuff about being outerversal comes from K3, which explains the cosmology of the world and how Taikyoku is the source of everything, including the concepts of dimensional space of any magnitude, from beyond it.

Monarch Laciel said:

The stuff about being outerversal comes from K3, which explains the cosmology of the world and how Taikyoku is the source of everything, including the concepts of dimensional space of any magnitude, from beyond it.

Click to expand...

I'm aware, I just need proofs, evidences with context to clear up my doubts.

Alright, well I have none of that so I'll sit here patiently with you.

You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Masadaverse page to find people to ask to comment here via their message walls.

Since you are so laaaaazy to search for some past threads were this all was qestioned and aswered already (and also because I kill two birds with one stone) I decided to move my own lazy ass and serch for the quotes and/or scans.

This part I copy-pasted was posted originally by EMC-sama with some translations made by Trex-sama. I'm going to search for more so I leave you with this.


Gods exists outside of duality (yin and yang), so I believe the latter is apt.

And here is the passage in question:

µ¿¬µ«┤ÒéèÒü½Þ¿¬ÒéîÒüƒõ©ÇµÆâÒéÆÚÿ╗ÒéÇÒü«Òü»ÒÇüõ║îÕìüÕøøÒü½ÒééÕÅèÒüµ¼íÕàâµû¡Õ▒ñÒÇéÞíصÆâÒéÆþø©Þ╗óþº╗ÒüÖÒéïþÁÂÕ»¥ÚÜ£ÕúüÒÇéÒüØÒéîÒüîÕñºþìäÒü¿Õñ£ÞíîÒü«ÚûôÒü½ÚíòþÅ¥ÒüÖÒéïÒÇé

His attempt to thwart the single side blow is dislocating dimensions that also reach to twenty-four. The absolute barrier that performs the phase transition on the impact. It manifested between Ootake and Yaokou.

To further drive the point home that he is manipulating dimensions and not just alternate planes of existence like Heaven and Hell in Satanel's universe.

µ╝ÅÒéîÕç║ÒéïÞå¿ÕñºÒü¬ÕÆÆÒü«µò░ÒÇàÒüîÒÇüÞéëþ£╝ÒüºÞªûÞ¬ìÒüºÒüìÒéïÞ¿ÇÚ£èÒü¿Òü¬ÒüúÒüªÕæ¿Õø▓Òü«þ®║ÚûôÒü½µø©ÒüìÞ¥╝Òü¥ÒéîÒüªÒüäÒüÅÒÇéÞñçÚøæÒü½þÁíÒü┐ÕÉêÒüäÒÇüþ×¼ÒüìÒü¬ÒüîÒéëÒÇüõ¢òÚçìÒééÒü«þ½ïõ¢ôþÜäÒü¬µºïÚÇáõ¢ôÒéÆþ╣öÒéèõ©èÒüÆÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

Many grand chants that leaked out are gradually written into the surrounding space became soul of language that is visible to naked-eye. This complex entanglement, while blinking, is woven several folds over on the three-dimensional structure.

Given how three-dimensional structure is used here, I think it sounds reasonable to conclude that the barrier is what it is. The context for this passage in particular is when Yakou explains to Ryuusui what Taikyoku is. And since I brought it up, I might as well post Trex's translation of it:

For anyone who wants to know, "Taikyoku" (in japanese, Õñ¬µÑÁ) is just the romanized spelling of "Taiji" (in fact, the kanji read in KKK as Taikyoku literally mean "Taiji"). Taikyoku, simply put, is the Supreme Ultimate, the source of all of existence. In Taoist teachings, it's even the source of Yin and Yang. The concept is pretty much identical in Shinza. Taikyoku is the power of Gods in this universe. Hadou Gods, whose Taikyoku flows outwards from themselves, instead of generating an internal universe, are the source of what is perceived in Shinza as "reality". They are the sources of all phenomena, souls, and concepts.

And now we go for something from the VNs itself, from KKK in particular. This is part of Yakou's explanation of the concept of Taikyoku:

Õñ¬µÑÁÒü¿Òü»õ¢òÒü×ÒéäÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒéÅÒéîÒéîÒü░ÒÇüþ½»þÜäÒü½µ│òÕëçÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒüåÒüùÒüïÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé Translation: What is Taikyoku? There is no choice but to frankly call it a Law.

ÒüÖÒü¬ÒéÅÒüíÒüØÒü«õ©ûþòîÒü½ÒüèÒüæÒéïþÁÂÕ»¥µ│òÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüÒüØÒüåÒüùÒüƒµ▒║Òü¥Òéèõ║ïÒéÆÕ«ÜÒéüÒüƒÕ╝Áµ£¼õ║║ÒéƵîçÒüÖÒÇé Translation: That is, an absolute Law regarding the World, the originator who determined this Law can be identificated.

As Yakou tells us, Taikyoku is a Law which is absolute in regards to the World, and its nature is also enough to identificate its originator.

Now more nitpicking with regards to this:

þäíÞ½ûÒÇüõ©ûÒü½µ│òÕëçÒü¿ÒüäÒüúÒüƒÒééÒü«Òü»þäíÚÖÉÒü½Þ┐æÒüÅÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÒüùÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒéëõ©ÇÒüñõ©ÇÒüñÒüîÕñ¬µÑÁÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒéÅÒüæÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇé Translation: Of course, in this World, a near infinite number of Laws exist, it doesn't mean that each one of those can be called Taikyoku.

þÅ¥Õ«ƒÒü½Õêâþë®Òü»ÕêçÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåµ│òÕëçÒéÆÕ©»Òü│ÒüªÒüäÒéïÒüùÒÇüþü½Òü»þçâÒéäÒüÖÒü¿ÒüäÒüåµ│òÕëçÒüîÒüéÒéïÒÇéµ░┤õ©¡Òü«µ│òÕëçÒü¬ÒéëÒü░Þé║Õæ╝ÕÉ©ÒüîÒüºÒüìÒü¬ÒüäÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒééÒü«ÒüºÒüéÒéìÒüåÒüùÒÇüÒüØÒüåÒüùÒüƒþ┤░ÒÇàÒü¿ÒüùÒüƒÒééÒü«Òü»ÕìÿÒü¬Òéïþë®þÉåÒüáÒÇé Translation: In reality, cutlery carries a Law called "cutting", fire has a Law called "burning". In the case of the Law that exists while underwater, something like pulmonary respiration cannot happen. Such assorted Laws are mere physics.

Yakou tells us that a near infinite number of Laws exist in the world. For example, a blade carries the Law of "cutting" (aka the concept of cutting is attached to a blade or an edged tool), and fire has the Law of "burning" (concept of burning is applied to fire). However, he says all of these are "mere physics/laws of nature". Taikyoku is something else.

ÚçìÞªüÒü¬Òü«Òü»ÞªÅµ¿íÒÇüÕ»åÕ║ªÒÇéÒüØÒü«µ│òÒéƵºïµêÉÒüÖÒéïÕìÿõ¢ìÒüîÕ«çÕ«ÖÒü¿ÒüäÒüåުŵá╝ÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüÒéåÒüêÒü½ÒüØÒéîÒü«Òü┐ÒéÆÒééÒüúÒüªþï¼þ½ïÒüùÒüƒõ©ûþòîÒü¿Òü¬ÒéèÕ¥ùÒéïÒééÒü«ÒéÆÕñ¬µÑÁÒü¿Õ«Üþ¥®ÒüÖÒéïÒÇé Translation: What's important is scale, density. The denomination of the form the Law takes is, by standard, "universe", therefore, getting to become an independent World is Takyoku's definition.

The scale of Taikyoku is the difference between those "physics" and and a Law which can be called so. Becoming an independent universe (World) is the mark of true Taikyoku.

õ¢òÒééÚøúÒüùÒüäÞ®▒ÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇéÕëìÞ┐░ÒüùÒüƒµ░┤õ©¡Òü«µ│òÒüîÕñ¬µÑÁÒü¿ÕîûÒüùÒüƒÒü¬ÒéëÒÇüÕà¿Õ«çÕ«ÖÒüîµ░┤Õ║òÒü½ÕñëÒéÅÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒüáÒüæÒü«ÒüôÒü¿ÒÇé Translation: It's not difficult talk at all. If the aforementioned Law that exists underwater were to change into Taikyoku, All of Creation's underwater areas would be changed.

^ Quote above is to be updated because of being incomplete (not sure about how to translate what follows).

And we continue with Yakou's exposition:

ÕÀ▒Òüîµ│òÕëçÒüºµú«þ¥àõ©çÞ▒íÒéÆÕêÂÕ£ºÒüÖÒéïÕñ¬µÑÁÒü¿ÒÇüÕÀ▒Òüîµ│òÕëçÒü«Òü┐µú«þ¥àõ©çÞ▒íÒüïÒéëÕñûÒéîÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÕñ¬µÑÁÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé Translation: My own Law which lets me gain total control of all things in Creation, my own Law that disconnects me from all things in Creation is Taikyoku.

Well, this above is a reference to Yakou's own Taikyoku, but I believe we'll get to that later.

ÒüôÒü«µ│òÒéÆÞë▓Òü¿Õæ╝Òü│ÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒéƵ▒║Õ«ÜÒüÖÒéïÒü«Òü»õ║║Òü«µâ│Õ┐ÁÒÇéµêæÒü»õ¢òÒÇàÒüîÒüùÒüƒÒüäÒÇüõ¢òÒÇàÒü½Òü¬ÒéèÒüƒÒüäÒÇéÒüØÒüåÒüùÒüƒþÑêÒéèÒéäÚíÿÒüäÒÇüÒüñÒü¥Òé赩絣øÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒéÅÒéîÒéïÒééÒü«ÒüîÒÇüÕñ¬µÑÁÒéÆþÖ║þöƒÒüòÒüøÒéïÕăÕïòÕèøÒü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé Translation: This Law is called a Colour, it's decision is a man's thought. What oneself longs for, what oneself would want to become. Such prayers and desires, called Cravings, become the driving force behind the genesis of Taikyoku.

And here are some posts explaining the nature of Singularity, where the Throne resides. It is repeatedly described as a blank zone, nowhere, nothingness and so on. It isn't a dimension as that is impossible due to its very nature. It is simply a "place" where concepts doesn't exist.

ÒüØÒü«Õá┤µëÇÒü¿Òü»ÒÇüÒüÖÒü¬ÒéÅÒüíÕñ¬µÑÁÕ║ºÒÇéµùóÕ¡ÿÒü«µ│òÒéƵÁüÒéîÕç║ÒüòÒüøÒüªÒüäÒéïõ║ïÞ▒íÒü«õ©¡Õ┐âÒÇüÕ«çÕ«ÖÒü«µá©ÒüáÒÇé

That is place is none other than the Taikyoku Throne. The Nucleus of the Universe, the Center where all phenomena emanated from the existing Law.

ÒüØÒéîÒü»þäíÞ½ûÒÇüÕìÿþ┤öÒü¬Õ¥Æµ¡®ÒéäÚúøþ┐öÒüºÞ¥┐Òéèõ╗ÿÒüæÒéïÕá┤µëÇÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇéõ©Çþ¿«Òü«ÞÂർíÕàâþ®║ÚûôÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüÞ¿ÇÞ¬×ÒüºÞ¬¼µÿÄÒüºÒüìÒü¬ÒüäµÑÁþé╣ÒüáÒÇé

Of course that is not the place where one can reach by walking and flying. It is some sort of Hyperdimensional Space, an extreme point that cannot be described by any language.

ÒüØÒüôÒü©Þç│ÒéïÒü½Òü»ÒüƒÒüáõ©ÇÒüñ――õ©ûþòîÒü½þ®┤ÒéÆþ®║ÒüæÒéïÒüùÒüïÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé

There is only one way to reach there――One can do nothing but to drill a hole on the World.

Òü¿Þ¿ÇÒüåÒéêÒéèÒééÒÇüÕ¢ôõ║║ÒüƒÒüíÒü«µäÅÕ┐ùÒü½Úûóõ┐éÒü¬ÒüÅÒüØÒüåÒü¬ÒéëÒüûÒéïÒéÆÕ¥ùÒü¬ÒüäÒü«ÒüáÒÇé

Or rather in the first place, regardless of the will of anyone he will inevitably do it.

ÞªçÚüôÒü«Õñ¬µÑÁÒü¿Òü»ÒÇüÕû®ÒüêÒéïÒü¬ÒéëþÁÁÒéƵÅÅÒüÅÞíîþé║Òü½ÚàÀõ╝╝ÒüùÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇéÒü┐ÒüÜÒüïÒéëÒü«þÉåÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÞë▓ÒéÆÒééÒüúÒüªÒÇüõ©ûþòîÒü¿ÒüäÒüåþö╗Õ©âÒü½µ£øÒéǵâàµÖ»ÒéƵÅÅÒüìÒüéÒüÆÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒÇé

The Taikyoku of Hadou is, for instance, closely resembling to the act of drawing a picture. You have the Color of your own Law, that is the condition to raise the drawing on the Canvas that is the World.

ÒéåÒüêÒü½Õ¢ôþäÂÒÇüþÁÁÒü¿ÒüäÒü嵪éÕ┐ÁÒü½õ╗ÿÚÜÅÒüÖÒéïÞ½©ÒÇàÒüîÚü®þö¿ÒüòÒéîÒéïÒÇéõ¥ïÒüêÒü░ÒÇüÕÉîÒüÿþ«çµëÇÒüºõ¢òÕ║ªÒééÚçìÒü¡ÕíùÒéèÒéÆÒüùÒüªÒüäÒéïÒü¿ÒÇüþ¡åÕ£ºÒü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªþö╗Õ©âÒü½þ®┤Òüîþ®║ÒüÅÒéêÒüåÒü¬……

Therefore naturally, many concepts that accompany with a picture can be applied. Then for example, under the pressure of the brush on the place where you had recoating it many times over, a vacant hole will appear on the canvas.

ÒüØÒüåÒüùÒüƒÕá┤µëÇÒéÆÒÇüþë╣þò░þé╣Òü¿Þ¿ÇÒüåÒÇéÞªçÚüôÕñ¬µÑÁÒü«ÒüÂÒüñÒüïÒéèÕÉêÒüäÒÇüþò░Òü¬Òéïµ│òÒü¿µ│òÒü«Ú¼®ÒüÄÕÉêÒüäÒüîÞÁÀÒüôÒüúÒüƒÕá┤µëÇÒüºÒü»ÒÇüõ©ûþòîÒüîÒüØÒü«Õ£ºÒü½ÞÇÉÒüêÕêçÒéîÒüÜÒÇüþ®┤ÒéÆþöƒÒüÿÒüòÒüøÒüªÒüùÒü¥ÒüåÒü«ÒüáÒÇé

A place like is called the Singularity. Just as Hadou Taikyoku clashed against each other at the place where the battle between Law and Law happened, then when the World cannot withstand the pressure anymore, a hole would be created in place.

ÒüÖÒéïÒü¿Òü®ÒüåÒü¬ÒéïÒüïÒÇüÞ¿ÇÒüåÒü¥ÒüºÒééÒü¬ÒüÅÕ¢ôõ║ïÞÇàÒü»ÞÉ¢õ©ïÒüÖÒéïÒÇéõ©ûþòîÒü«ÕúüÒéÆÚúøÒü│ÞÂèÒüêÒüªÒÇüÒü®ÒüôÒüºÒééÒü¬ÒüäÕá┤µëÇÒéÆÞÉ¢ÒüíþÂÜÒüæÒéïÒÇé

Then what will happen? It does not need to be said that both parties will fall together. They will continue to fall to places that are nowhere because they had jumped over the Walls of the World.

ÒüØÒü«µ×£ÒüªÒü½ÒüéÒéïÒééÒü«ÒÇüþ®┤Òü«Õ║òÒüôÒüØÒüîÕñ¬µÑÁÕ║ºÒü½õ╗ûÒü¬ÒéëÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé

At the end of it, at the bottom of the hole is none other than the Taikyoku Throne.

ÒÇîÒüôÒü«õ©ûÒü½Õ£¿ÒéëÒüÜÒÇüÒüôÒü«õ©ûÒéÆþÁ▒Òü╣Òéï……ÒüØÒüåÒüäÒüåÕá┤µëÇÒüïÒÇì

"He is not in this world, he rules this world……A place this that"

ÒüñÒü¥ÒéèÒÇüõ©Çþ¿«Òü«þ®║þÖ¢Õ£░Õ©»ÒüáÒÇé

In the other word, a blank zone.

µ│óµù¼Òü«Þë▓Òü½µƒôÒü¥ÒüúÒüƒÕñ®Òü»ÒÇüþÑ×Òü«ÚçìÒü┐Òü½ÞÇÉÒüêÒéëÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÞÂàÞÂèÞÇàÒüîÞà░µÄøÒüæÒéïÒü╣ÒüÅÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéï『Õ║º』Òü¿Õæ╝ÒüÂÒü╣ÒüìÒééÒü«ÒüîÕ┐àÞªüÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

The Heaven that dyed in the color of Hajun, it cannot endure the weight of God. The thing that needed to exist so that those of transcendence can sit on it, what called the『Throne』.

þÉåÒü«µéëÒüÅÒéƵ┤ùÒüäµÁüÒüùÒÇüþäíÞë▓ÚÇŵÿÄÒü¬þ®║Òü©Òü¿Þç│ÒéîÒü░Õ┐àÒüÜÒüØÒü«Õ║òÒü¥ÒüºÞ¥┐ÒéèþØÇÒüæÒéêÒüåÒÇé

To wash away the entirely of Law, you have to follow to reach for the bottom at last to arrive at the colorless transparent sky.

ÒÇîÕñ¬µÑÁÒü«µ┐Çþ¬üÒÇüþø©Õ«╣ÒéîÒü¼þÉåÕÉîÕú½Òü«Ú¼®ÒüÄÒüéÒüäÒüîÕ┐àÞªüÒüáÒü¬ÒÇì

"The clash of Taikyoku, the fight between incompatible Laws is necessary."

ÒÇîõ©ûþòîÒü½þöƒÒüÿÒüƒþ®┤Òü«µÀ▒ÕÑÑÔöÇÔöÇÕÑ┤Òü»Õ┐àÒüÜÒÇüÕàÂÕçªÒü½ÒüäÒéïÒÇì

"The deep hole was created in the worldÔöÇÔöÇthat fellow, he is in there."

ÞªçÚüôÕÉîÕú½Òü«µ┐Çþ¬üÒü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªþë╣þò░þé╣ÒéÆþÖ║þöƒÒüòÒüøÒÇüµ│óµù¼Òü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÞÂàµÀ▒ÕÑÑÒü«Õñ¬µÑÁÕ║ºÒü¥ÒüºÕà¿ÕèøÒüºµ¼íÕàâÒü«Õ¡öÒéƵÄÿÒéèÚÇ▓ÒéüÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇéþ®óÕ£ƒÒüîÕ¡ÿþÂÜÒüÖÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒüôÒü¿Òü»ÒÇüÒüÖÒü¬ÒéÅÒüíþÑ×ÕÀ×ÒéÆÕƒ║þé╣Òü½ÒüùÒüƒþ®║ÚûôÒü«µÄÿÕëèÒÇéÒüØÒü«ÞíîÒüäÒü»µâ│ÕâÅÒéÆþÁÂÒüÖÒéïÒü╗Òü®Òü«ÚòÀÒüäµÖéÚûôÒÇüõ║║þƒÑÒéîÒüܵ▒║µêªÒéÆþø«µîçÒüùÒüªÞíîÒü¬ÒéÅÒéîÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇé

The Singularity is produced by the clash of Hadou, he tries his best to dug a dimensional hole to the hyperdepth Throne of Taikyoku of Hajun. The survival of Edo, was just for the purpose of drilling the hole based on God State. The time of his doing was umimaginably long, he secretly aims for that to be done at the final battle.

Õà▒Òü½þëêÕø│ÒéÆÕ║âÒüÆÕÉêÒüåõ║îÒüñÒü«Þë▓ÒüîÒÇüõ©ûþòîÒü¿ÒüäÒüåþö╗Õ©âÒü½þ®┤ÒéÆþ®║ÒüæÒéïÒÇéÒüØÒü«ÕàêÒü½Õ¥àÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒü«Òü»õ¢òÞë▓ÒüºÒééÒü¬ÒüäÕá┤µëÇÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüÞ¿ÇÒéÅÒü░ÒüôÒü«õ©ûÒü«þë╣þò░þé╣ÒÇé

The two Colors expand their territory, they cleared a hole on the canvas of the world. The place waiting where it was without color, so to speak, the Singularity.

ÒüØÒéîÒü»µÁüÕç║Òü½ÒéêÒéïõ©ûþòîÒü«þ¬üþá┤ÒÇéþÅ¥õ©ûÒü½Õ¢▒Úƒ┐ÒéÆÕÅèÒü╝ÒüòÒü¬ÒüäÒÇüµ│òÕëçÒüÖÒéëÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÞÖÜþäíÒü«þ®║ÚûôÒüºµûâÒüÖÒÇé

That is the breakthrough of the World by the Emanation. The place the influence of the World can't reach, the fall into the nothingness space where the Law doesn't exist.

ÒüñÒü¥ÒéèÒü»ÕñûÕü┤ÒüáÒÇéõ©╗þÑ×Òü¿Õæ╝Òü░ÒéîÒéïÒééÒü«ÒéÆÕñûµºÿÒü©Þ┐¢ÒüäÒéäÒéïÒÇé

In the other word, the Outside. It drives to what called the Godhead to the Outsider.

Òü®ÒüôÒü¥ÒüºÒééþÂÜÒüÅÕñëÕô▓Òü«Òü¬Òüäþ®║ÚûôÒÇéÞû¼Òü½Òééµ»ÆÒü½ÒééÒü¬ÒéëÒüÜÒÇüÒüƒÒüáÕ£¿ÒéèþÂÜÒüæÒéïþäíÞë▓Òü«Õñ¬µÑÁÒÇéÒü▓ÒüƒÒüÖÒéëÕÀ¿ÕñºÒüºÒüéÒéèÒü¬ÒüîÒéëÞç¬ÕÀ▒õ©╗Õ╝ÁÒéÆÞíîÒü¬ÒéÅÒü¬ÒüäÒééÒü«Òü»ÒÇüÞªïÒéïÞÇàÒü«µüÉÒéîÒéƵÄ╗Òüìþ½ïÒüªÒéïÒüïÒü«ÒéêÒüåÒüáÒÇé

He keep follow the space of nowhere. It is neither poison or cure, this colorless Taikyoku, that is. This place is huge even if one doesn't insist on that, as if it stirred up the fear of the one who see this.

µîçÕàêÒüîþäíÒü«þ®║ÚûôÒéÆþ¬üÒüìþá┤ÒéèÒÇüÕàëÒéïÕèøÒü«ÕíèÒéƵæÿÒéôÒüºÒüäÒéïÒÇé

As he (Hajun) broke through the space of nothingness with his fingertip, I can pick out a glowing mass of power.

ÒüØÒéîÒüáÒüæÒü«ÕÀ¿ÕñºÒü¬õ║▒ÒüîÚ¼®ÒüÄÒüéÒüêÒü░Òü®ÒüåÒü¬ÒéïÒüïÒÇüÕêåÒüïÒéëÒü¼Òü╗Òü®Ú¥ìµ░┤Òü»µäÜÚêìÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇéþ®║þÖ¢Õ£░Õ©»Òü«þÖ║þöƒÒüáÒÇéÒü¬ÒéëÒü░ÔöÇÔöÇ

Then, what happened if they, the two great pillars fight, Ryuusui is not stupid to not able to understand that. The creation of the blank zone. ThenÔöÇÔöÇ

õ©ûþòîÒü½þ®║ÒüäÒüƒþ®┤ÒÇüÒéåÒüêÒü½þñ║ÒüÖÕæ╝Òü│ÕÉìÒü»þë╣þò░þé╣ÒÇé

The hole that became the emptiness of the world, thus, it gained the nickname of Singularity.

If you are confused, don't worry. That is just me pasting every single mention or reference to the Singularity that I could find. Previous post was deleted so I couldn't be arsed to write the context all over again. XD

I think the line of reasoning is simple. The throne generates all concepts of creation, this includes laws, space, time, dimensions, causality, laws of physics, and so on. In addition to maintaining the creation he gave birth to everything being above all that it encompasses which is all creation. It is easy to know that the throne has infinite concepts and already works with "low" and "higher" dimensional. The world of mercurius has also been said to be multi-dimensional.

The throne itself is 1-A for generating everything and being above all else governing and maintaining all creation. And hadou gods (or beings with taikyoku like gudou gods) transcend the throne eventually (has been destroyed it in three colors route), even if they kill themselves for who will reign over it.

Also in this thread people brought the same thing about the 24-D and how masada is shiet but EMC and Trex explained some things until everything went to hell.

I do think that explanation blog should be removed since it is of rather poor quality. Doesn't help that a lot of it comes from the ACF page version as far as I can tell, even using the same pictures that used to be in it.

A new one should be made. Perhaps after Pantheon is released?

I recalled ALRF was planning on remaking it at some point with actual scans and better clarification.

Though the fact Pantheon is a thing (or will be a thing when it releases) where it has more lore and other stuff being added to the series, maybe waiting more as EMC said is the better case for rn?

I am always grateful for improvement of our information pages.

Ofc ALRF COULD remake it and we can just take out the "less in quality" Explanation page and then just update whenever as Pantheon is released and we gather info overtime. Don't have to necessarily wait but I do like EMC's idea better if only so the page doesn't need to have constant updates every other day or so of the week or something like that.

IDK, that's how I imagine either option being done but matter is more of when ALRF comes to it. He already has some other stuff to work on for here on his own time and pace so it's down to him whenever this comes around again. (shrugs)

We should wait after Pantheon release. Mostly because there's gonna be more expansion on the cosmology of Shinza

That and it will help me focus on Mondaiji

^This, basically.

Where does it specifically state in KKK about transcending dualism? Was it ever mentioned or implied that they transcend it? Or is the reason only because "Taikyoku=Taiji irl=transcends dualism"

I'm looking for the scan/s supporting this, "Hadou Gods are alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, everything and nothing, they are what precedes duality."

@Tony

I already have the scans of Yakou's explanation about the concept of Taikyoku but please give me the scans of: 1. Gods transcending duality(implied or stated), 2. Singularity being referred to as nothingness.

And as far as I understand, Yakou just basically said that the concept of burning, cutting is not comparable to a Taikyoku Law but those concepts are just the most basic and they are just "physics" greater concepts such as "Death, Life, Time, Space, Dimensional planes" where was it stated that a Taikyoku Law is above this?

Archaron said:

I think the line of reasoning is simple. The throne generates all concepts of creation, this includes laws, space, time, dimensions, causality, laws of physics, and so on. In addition to maintaining the creation he gave birth to everything being above all that it encompasses which is all creation. It is easy to know that the throne has infinite concepts and already works with "low" and "higher" dimensional. The world of mercurius has also been said to be multi-dimensional.

The throne itself is 1-A for generating everything and being above all else governing and maintaining all creation. And hadou gods (or beings with taikyoku like gudou gods) transcend the throne eventually (has been destroyed it in three colors route), even if they kill themselves for who will reign over it.

Click to expand...

Translation for the "higher and lower dimensional" scan is needed as well as context for it. How high dimensional is Akuro? I know it's not greater than 24 because 24 is the highest dimensional plane stated in KKK made by Yakou as a barrier.

You link the word "transcend" to a scan in Dies Irae where Ren "Eine Faust Finale" demanding power from the Throne which isn't even close to transcending the Throne. If that's your point then I guess Briah Ren>Throne? That's obviously false. I know Reinhard destroyed it in his fight with Mercurius, I know Mercurius destroyed and recreated it but how does "hyperdimensional Throne" in context means outerversal Throne?

The Throne encompasses all concepts, was it ever stated that the Throne is beyond/transcendent from all concepts? If it was then send scans

The context is simple, obviously the "higher dimensional" would be akuro but it's not because of the madara's barrier that actually has nothing to do with each other. This quote occurs in the fight of the soujirou against akuro and he uses of example his dimensional level to show that his attacks doesn't have effect in him.

Transcend = to go beyond or rise above a limit, or be greater than something ordinary

Mercurius is the highest form of existence, and even though I am wrong if throne is even what the quote refers to throne, it makes he above all that it encompasses and creates (this is called common sense) that would be the whole creation. And the power given to ren was fully controlled.

What you want is a direct quote, there being a logical basis and common sense used here, the throne is above all that englobes and creates being the creation maintained by the same naturally only being surpassed by the hadou gods and its factor of eternal transcendence with the taikyoku.

Archaron said:

The context is simple, obviously the "higher dimensional" would be akuro but it's not because of the madara's barrier that actually has nothing to do with each other. This quote occurs in the fight of the soujirou against akuro and he uses of example his dimensional level to show that his attacks doesn't have effect in him.

Transcend = to go beyond or rise above a limit, or be greater than something ordinary

Mercurius is the highest form of existence, and even though I am wrong if throne is even what the quote refers to throne, it makes he above all that it encompasses and creates (this is called common sense) that would be the whole creation. And the power given to ren was fully controlled.

What you want is a direct quote, there being a logical basis and common sense used here, the throne is above all that englobes and creates being the creation maintained by the same naturally only being surpassed by the hadou gods and its factor of eternal transcendence with the taikyoku.

Click to expand...

A battle between higher and lower dimensional entities doesn't support the fact the Throne is beyond dimensional as hyperdimensional can mean anything being above 4D.

This scan https://imgur.com/gallery/2546Fc8 is the only direct statement in Dies Irae where it says everything in creation is encompassed within the Throne except for the Hadou Gods as they are external to it.

You said that the Throne "generates everything" it never did. It's only a byproduct of the First Heaven to control the universe and the cosmology expanded with Mercurius being the 4th Heaven. If anything "generated everything" that would be Taikyoku.

But I'm waiting for a scan in the KKK that states or even closely implies that they transcend dualism. For this part "Hadou Gods are the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, everything and nothing, they are what precedes duality." sounds far-fetched and makes room for doubt especially when it doesn't have scans supporting it. I know Taikyoku is inspired from the concept "Taiji" and Takashi Masada did that intentionally but can someone give me from KKK stating that Taikyoku transcends like Taiji does? Because if it doesn't have than then the debunk about Demonnbane where ALRF stated "Tier 0 Azathoth (Demonbane) is laughable since he isn't implied to be the strongest Outer God like Lovecraft depiction of him" the same logic would be applied in this case as "Taikyoku transcending duality is laughable since it isn't implied to be Taiji like the realm life concept depiction of it" this is, of course when one has failed to give scans that Taikyoku transcends dualism like Taiji does

Translation for the "higher and lower dimensional" scan is needed as well as context for it. How high dimensional is Akuro? I know it's not greater than 24 because 24 is the highest dimensional plane stated in KKK made by Yakou as a barrier.

How do you know this? Just curious.

People

OP doesn't want explanations.

OP wants scans from the VN

Sad thing is that I don't know Japanese nor do I have the game, sorry.

How do you know this? Just curious.


Because I read discussion threads and some even say that it's just a misinterpretation saying it only refers as "24 dimensional barriers" not "24th" but I'm going with "24th"

Monarch Laciel said:

People

OP doesn't want explanations.

OP wants scans from the VN

Click to expand...

Yeah^

Antvasima said:

You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Masadaverse page to find people to ask to comment here via their message walls.

Click to expand...

^

^

Already did

Okay.

I do agree that the explaination page need to be remake with scans since the original games have been translated already. The only problem would be with KKK Scans.

PRETTY SURE I noted about that. Scans aren't a problem as ALRF has posted several them here and shared with me on our Skype talks some time earlier this year. Granted I don't have them on me cuz I merely looked at them and all, but he has gathered scans for them for sure.

The actual matter is when he'll ever get to making a new one and having...well, actual scans linked on it this time unlike this wikias current one.

But as he said so the other day as did EMC, its best if we wait until after Pantheon is released due to the game giving out more lore expansion to the verse so this way it'd be easier for him to do it in one go rather than having to edit it again and again if he were to do it before and then after it comes out.

Now I'm not the kind that would want to shove all this onto him but even if he was fine with it, which I believe he said something like that before to me once, he has other verses he wants to try and help out on. It's just a matter of patience and waiting for all I can tell at this point. Might be frustrating but there's nothing that can be helped unless another can grab some scans and do share here or try and help? (shrugs)

This is the time where I wish that I do know japanese and can played KKK to translate it and posted it here.

I would greatly appreciate if ALRF would be willing to write a new explanation page for the Masadaverse after he finishes with Demonbane.

@Shining: You're not the only one there, and Shinza's just one series of many with that...

Although I do get the OP just wants scans alone and that's it? I just DK if ALRF will bother enough. He might and can just do that but IDK. Not saying he won't refuse to do it, just that it's whenever he does and if he does it.

I don't believe what I said all up to now isn't of much greater importance overall, just only to explain or note to everyone regarding the importance of the scans and, to a large extent, this wiki's explanation page.

I can ask ALRF about it.

UnknownGodXXX said:

A battle between higher and lower dimensional entities doesn't support the fact the Throne is beyond dimensional as hyperdimensional can mean anything being above 4D.

Click to expand...

Huh...what?

Hyper - prefix

Above; beyond.

Hyperdimensional = beyond dimension. You are probably confusing hyperdimensional and what this wikia calls hyperversal. Those are not the same thing.

This scan https://imgur.com/gallery/2546Fc8 is the only direct statement in Dies Irae where it says everything in creation is encompassed within the Throne except for the Hadou Gods as they are external to it. You said that the Throne "generates everything" it never did. It's only a byproduct of the First Heaven to control the universe and the cosmology expanded with Mercurius being the 4th Heaven. If anything "generated everything" that would be Taikyoku.
Wasn't the throne something that will always encompass all reality? Like it "devours" things. So all of reality, the world, the dimensions, the cosmology, everything is "absorbed" by the throne. Natural laws, taikyoku, material world, spiritual world, dimensions lower or higher, space, etc. So, it emanates simple laws of nature, in the same manner that the throne god will force the emanation of their taikyoku.