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Madoka vs Lavos Redux

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Lancer45Man

Lancer45Man

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So first of all, sorry Kal for the PTSD this is going to give you.

Secondly,

Madoka Kaname vs Lavos

Madokakg
Lavos
2-A Madoka vs 2-A Dream Devourer

Location: Nexus of Reality in Marvel

Speed Equalized

SBA

Who Wins??

Madoka: 11 (Fate, Gargoyle, Peter, Tman, Setsuna, Cal, Kal, RkGenki, Shadow, rebuble, Velox)

Lavos: 0
 
It's funny how as soon as I come back people make Lavos threads in the hopes that they'll bait me into arguing it to no end.

But as it is now Madoka has quite a lot of Law and Conceptual Based stuff (which I don't see Lavos having a good enough counter for), non-existence interaction of her own, isn't as close to baseline 2-A as she used to be before as well as the range to cover for all the alternates.

What Lavos has on its range that I don't see her being able to resist and which ironically is part of its main deal is absorption. And before someone smart brings "Oh the Unconventional Resistance so it doesn't work", no. Just don't.

By using that same sort of logic where a character can resist hax of a scale higher than their own I could say Lavos beats SMT 2-As with ease, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

All in all, I unironically vote Madoka since her powerset makes it seem to me like she has more (pretty solid at that) chances to pull a Chrono Cross on Lavos (eventually deleting all the alternates and then remaking the multiverse into something else entirely where no Lavos is allowed to exist, just like she did with Witches) before Lavos manages an absorption since it will have its hands full dealing with her having superior hax in many other fronts either way.

I feel like I told this before but Law and Conceptual based stuff hard counters Lavos in the TD key depending on how the opponent's skillset and defenses happens to be.
 
So Lavos ties with Akuma Homura as Dream Devourer. Loses to Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen as a Time Devourer. And is now losing to Ultimate Madoka as a Dream Devourer.
 
Peter1129 said:
So Lavos ties with Akuma Homura as Dream Devourer. Loses to Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen as a Time Devourer. And is now losing to Ultimate Madoka as a Dream Devourer.
Click to expand...
ABC logic at its finiest
 
It's not ABC logic. This is pretty much the same scaling for the Puella Magi God tiers. Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen is a better version of Ultimate Madoka who is more versatile than Akuma Homura despite being equals. I'm guessing the only win Lavos could have against a Puella Magi 2-A is against AoC the weakest 2-A.
 
Before this escalates, I'll just give a daily reminder that their skillset is entirely different and Lavos' compatibility with Madoka has always been worse than its compatibility with Homura.

That's why this match happened once then Madoka won, again then Lavos won and now I think Madoka wins again.
 
@DMB 1 It actually makes sense, since even with the literal entire game as prep they only "killed" it once in base... Only to all die somewhere in time between the end of the first game and the sequel. I can't even bring myself to enjoy the plot of Chrono Trigger anymore since I know that not only they all end up wrecked later but Lavos also tampers enough with the timeline for it to be sort of entirely deleted/crashed into the Dead Sea and the DBT. Lavos made Dalton succeed in killing Crono and Marle while destroying the whole kingdom of Guardia. DALTON and his army. The literal comic relief of the verse. It's like making Goku go down in history as killed by Yamcha.
 
FateAlbane said:
I feel like I told this before but Law and Conceptual based stuff hard counters Lavos in the TD key depending on how the opponent's skillset and defenses happens to be.
Click to expand...
Does this mean your vote would be the same if this was TD Lavos?
 
FateAlbane said:
@DMB 1 It actually makes sense, since even with the literal entire game as prep they only "killed" it once in base... Only to all die somewhere in time between the end of the first game and the sequel. I can't even bring myself to enjoy the plot of Chrono Trigger anymore since I know that not only they all end up wrecked later but Lavos also tampers enough with the timeline for it to be sort of entirely deleted/crashed into the Dead Sea and the DBT.
Lavos made Dalton succeed in killing Crono and Marle while destroying the whole kingdom of Guardia. DALTON and his army. The literal comic relief of the verse.
Click to expand...
The writers sure made weird dreams when coming up with the villain.
 
I mean

Mami oneshots herself + outranges + tanks everything with forcefields + ribbon trap GG

I wouldn't call that fair
 
She already won when their AP was comparable

Also that's derailing
 
@RKGenki I meant countering skillset/hax with that.

I've been out for one or two months now so this may be outdated thinking, but last I heard it was generally agreed that TD has enough more lvls of 2-A so at that point it would pull Nombsorption before Madoka can kill all of it and alts while Peak DD prior to transition is around the same level so it's the most fair matchup for both. Unless Madoka got some big upgrades in the scale of 2-A that I'm not aware of.
 
All we need are FRA and Fate is too much of an evil Kingsmen secret service Villian to not get her thread memed and detailed.
 
She is = to UKG who created a 2-A with the curses that she releases passively while restrained (by Madoka)

Or twice above baseline if that's considered more impressive for whatever reason
 
@Kal I mean, this isn't them ABC logic, but TD fought UKG and lost so if Godoka is = UKG in the scale of 2-A, this getting changed from DD to TD or not would not affect my reasoning anymore than "Madoka wins with less dificulty if it's DD, higher difficulty if it's TD".

@Yobobojojo Even as we speak, Lavos curses its creators for never showing one word about conceptual anything on the whole verse.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Remember when Lavos was something to write home about?
Click to expand...
It still is. It's not a monster on the level of Digimon's/SMT's top tiers, but it's far from a subpar 2-A.

If anything I remember when it had 16 powers, with like 2 being relevant on this level lol
 
@Cal The irony about this is that at times I still get people saying I ever argue for Lavos because I don't want it to lose or get an inconclusive every now and then. Let this go down in history as yet another proof that I'm usually the first name to say "Yeah, it loses." when it does.
 
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