ApiesDeathbyLazors
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They wouldn't be dead, though. They're just turned into a different form of life, that of The Thing. Hence why transmuation bypasses Regenerationn in many cases. This has the added benefit of also possessing the character, so Frisk wouldn't be able to LOAD on command either.Monarch Laciel said:Frisk getting infected and having every one of his cells devoured and replaced by Thing cells would count as dead for the purpose of SAVE/LOAD
Frisk S/L's in the over world all the time. It's just a save file after all.Dargoo Faust said:Unless the soul itself is concious and can load/save on command, Frisk getting possessed would make that a non-issue.
Yeah, Frisk saves and loads a lot. So what? How can they do that when their mind is overwritten? I don't see any relevant resistances.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:Frisk S/L's in the over world all the time. It's just a save file after all.
Kind of hard to do when you're mind isn't your own.Monarch Laciel said:It can Save/Load on command. Doesn't need death.
Yes, that's correct. That's what would happen to Frisk.Monarch Laciel said:The thing's possession doesn't control their mind. It replaces their mind with its own, in their brain's form.
When has something like that happened in Undertale? If SAVE/LOADing requires concious thought Frisk would lack it, and if it operates on death than Frisk isn't dead. Otherwise you're assuming Frisk can now do things they haven't demonstrated.Monarch Laciel said:The moment Frisk's brain is gone, his soul is like "what just happened" and proceeds to LOAD
As someone who played Undertale, I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?ApiesDeathbyLazors said:Every game over screen displays Frisk's esssnce can act independant of any physical form.
Frisk's body isn't dying here.Monarch Laciel said:Like
His body dies
His SOUL literally breaks to pieces.
And then he just LOADs back anyway.
Um, Yes yes and no.Dargoo Faust said:Frisk's body isn't dying.
The soul isn't being broken into pieces.
It seems automatic in that regard.
As I've said before, biological alteration is not death.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:Um, Yes yes and no.
The Body isn't killed, though. Nowhere in the process do vital signs stop. That's like saying Frisk being transmutated into a Frog would classify as 'death'. His body is being moved from one state to another. The beggining and end result is an alive body. Death only happens on the cellular level, not on the macroscopic level. Unless you want to tell me Frisk loads every time one of their cells die?Monarch Laciel said:Frisk is dead though. His body and his brain have all be eaten and replaced by the Thing, piece by piece. There is no more Frisk. That's death. At which point, he LOADs.
What? No, what I'm saying is it can't and therefore can't win.Dargoo Faust said:Can you point out where The Thing can attack Frisk's soul or soulhax in general?
I don't follow the logic here. The Thing doesn't need to attack Frisk's soul to win. It just needs to assimalate Frisk's body and brain and it wins.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:What? No, what I'm saying is it can't and therefore can't win.
The body is killed though.Dargoo Faust said:The Body isn't killed, though. Nowhere in the process do vital signs stop. That's like saying Frisk being transmutated into a Frog would classify as 'death'. His body is being moved from one state to another. The beggining and end result is an alive body. Death only happens on the cellular level, not on the macroscopic level. Unless you want to tell me Frisk loads every time one of their cells die?
So no LOAD occurs, manual or otherwise.
No. Cells are killed. The Body isn't.Monarch Laciel said:The body is killed though.
Frisk's body is eaten, cell by cell, and replaced by the Thing's cells. There is no longer any Frisk. There is an alien monster that looks like Frisk, right down to the cells, and has the memories of Frisk, but it is not Frisk.
Frisk is gone. Frisk's vital signs have all stopped because his entire body is gone.
Last time I checked LOADing either occurs on A) Death, or B) Through concious thought.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:Right, what I'm saying is the Thing would need major soul manip to actually beat Frisk, which it doesn't so it can't. The Thing's possession doesn't tough the soul so Frisk always has an out.
Frisk's brain doesn't control their SOUL.Dargoo Faust said:Frisk's brain proceeds to get altered on the cellular level, and nothing more can be done at that point.
All of your logic assumes this is done all at once, at which point I might agree with you.Monarch Laciel said:No. Frisk's body is killed, because Frisk's brain and body no longer exists. Every one of his cells has been devoured and mimicked. It doesn't matter if the body still looks whole and has the same amount of cells in the same positions, because those were not Frisk's cells, those are the Thing's cells which have devoured his entire body.
Frisk's vital signs stop because Frisk's body is gone. The Thing's vital signs continue, but it's still the Thing.
I'm not confusing anything. If your entire body is destroyed and replaced by a foreign invader, would you not consider yourself dead?
Yes, Frisk can control these abilities when they have been killed. That doesn't happen here. The only other way that happens is through concious thought while Frisk is alive, which would be a non-issue.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:Frisk's brain doesn't control their SOUL.
Altering their brain is an entire non factor to actually using SAVE and LOAD as this is an entirely fictional human in a universe where magic and souls are confirmed to be real and play a major role in who you are.
Frisk can utilize these abilities when they have literally been killed. This ability is not connected to the physical Frisk.
Frisk can control these abilities when they have been killed because the SOUL is not strictly linked to Frisk's physical self and thus can continue to function after death.Dargoo Faust said:Yes, Frisk can control these abilities when they have been killed. That doesn't happen here. The only other way that happens is through concious thought while Frisk is alive, which would be a non-issue.
That entirely depends on what youre definition of what 'death' is. That last cell wouldn't represent Frisk, the entire collection of cells in the body represents Frisk, or rather the processes that body does. Nothing happens to that process, so wouldn't you say Frisk isn't dying, but just being altered into something else?Monarch Laciel said:The moment there is nothing but Thing-Frisk left, is the moment Frisk is completely dead, and he becomes able to LOAD.
Frisk is still alive, though. Their mind is just being altered. If Frisk was mindhaxxed, would the SOUL still be able to reload? If so, when did that happen in Undertale?Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:Frisk can control these abilities when they have been killed because the SOUL is not strictly linked to Frisk's physical self and thus can continue to function after death.
This is not the same as "Frisk needs to die in order to SAVE or LOAD". SAVE and LOAD are explicitly shown to be usable when a being is still alive by Flowey.
By all means, prove that to me then. If Frisk's SOUL can Save and Load independent of Frisk's mind while Frisk is alive, I'm all ears.Monarch Laciel said:I don't need to prove Frisk can maintain identity and consciousness on a cellular level when I can prove that he can maintain identity and consciousness on a spiritual level, and even when that spirit is destroyed.