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DMUA's Scheme. Randall Flag vs Lucetta Quetzl

Monarch Laciel said:
Lucette via bloodlust making her soul rip off the bat.
Click to expand...
Alternatively Randall mindrapes

What's Luce's first move?
 
Can she even find him from 4km away?

Flagg has his Third Eye, as well as an even better means of spying on her via the Grapefruit. But I don't see anything on her page that would let her see him from that far away.

SBA also starts them at Central Park, which isn't the easiest place to see a person from that distance, to put it mildly.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Can she even find him from 4km away?
Flagg has his Third Eye, as well as an even better means of spying on her via the Grapefruit. But I don't see anything on her page that would let her see him from that far away.

SBA also starts them at Central Park, which isn't the easiest place to see a person from that distance, to put it mildly.
Click to expand...
That's his max range? If she couldn't, she would probably use her library to do a widespread search and dive into the mirrorwise for safety

Can he see cross dimensionally, or see borderline abstract beings?

Actually no, look at the note on Lucetta's page. This fight takes place somewhere within The House
 
Hadn't realized that was the version we were using.

Honestly though, that just puts her within easier mind-reading range, and Flagg's telepathy is hilariously superior to Roland Deschai's. The moment she even thinks about trying anything, he says "Stop" or "Sleep" and shuts that down.

It also doesn't help that the Grapefruit itself can entrance people who so much as look at it. If he has that out right from the beginning, she's got no chance.
 
Also, 4km isn't his max range. That's just the max range that SBA will allow him to start off at. His magic and telepathy without Black Thirteen can reach several thousand kilometers fairly easily.
 
Not sure why that would put her more within his range. The House is a higher dimensional structure, containing an infinite number of mirror universes and realms, many infinite structures, and a ton of weird stuff. Just want to clarify that.

She resists mental abilities and magic such as that. How good is his? He also doesn't have cross universal range, right? So she is safe from that in the mirror wise

She can use a Fetch Mirror to close that distance, tho.
 
His isn't all that impressive by itself. It's in the dozens to hundreds or so.

The Grapefruit is High 1-B. It scales to the Laughing Mirror, the shards of which damaged and permanently corrupted the Dark Tower back in the earliest age of Mid-World.

And well, if they're both within the House, SBA still puts them at a maximum of 4km or so. And if she closes the distance, she has to deal with the effects of looking at the Grapefruit, along with Flagg's other abilities.

Might I add that it's also sentient, and that its capable of casting illusions that are even better than the ones Flagg himself can pull out.
 
Which abilities are specifically from the Grapefruit?

I see. Which of Randall's abilities other than the Grape Fruits would get past her resistences? Cuz most of his magic, commands, and mental abilities aren't gonna do crap unless they are also working on a high level

I see. Not sure she really "looks" that way because she exists in the form of a song.

Interesting
 
Illusions, Mind Manipulation, Mind Absorption, Empathic Manipulation, Clairvoyance and Telepathy can be used by the Grapefruit on its own. It's true form is also invisible and non-corporeal, and can fly, regenerate, access memories and drain a victim's life-force. (over time)

His transmutation magic worked on three men at once, and his dream-state-inducement worked on a psychic who could create pocket dimensions outside of reality with nothing but his mind. But those probably don't sell, and the rest of his magic is generally more effective on corporeal opponents.

The act of seeing it should be enough for a being to fall under its influence unless they have sufficient resistance, but if she literally doesn't "see" in the conventional sense, it can still attempt to mentally control her, or send visions directly into her mind.
 
The latter list of the powers are not on his profile. Does the Grapefruit have a profile that they are listed on? If not, then a CRT should be made. Is the mind manipulation also on that scale? Does the mind manipulation work on Abstracts?

Yeah, it doesn't seem like they will get around the resistence or Abstract/Non-Corporeal Nature

If it really does work on a 1-B scale, then her resistences to illusions probably are not enough lol. Can it control abstracts?
 
They're not on his page because they aren't his powers. They're things the Grapefruit can do on its own, not things that he can do with the Grapefruit. And no, sadly, we don't have a profile for Maerlyn's Grapefruit yet. I was initially going to make one after the DT revisions were over and done with, but let's just say a lot of things happened and that never came to fruition.

Was there some sort of revision that makes it so abstracts are naturally immune to mindhax or something? If so, I don't think it ever blatantly used its mindhax on anything abstract before. Most of those kinds of beings tend to play for the same team as it (that team being the Crimson King's), so I don't think there was ever a feasible opportunity for the story to show something like that.

The closest proof I could really give would be the Crimson King's avatar mind controlling all of the demons and monsters in his army (he was confirmed to have had non-corporeal ones working for him alongside the others) into killing themselves in front of him, but I'm not sure that the Grapefruit's mindhax would scale to that. Flagg, the only character ever really shown to resist the Grapefruit's effects, got telepathically wrecked by Mordred, Los' biological son, and Los' himself is supposed to be more powerful in every area.

Probably not enough evidence, tbh.
 
Nah.


Abstracts need feats of resisting I believe.


Or... maybe that was type 3 and 2 absracts and 1s can resist conventional mindhax


I don't remember
 
Oh. Well, what part of what he said were you saying yes to?

"Yes, abstracts still need feats of resistance", or "Yes, Type 1's automatically resist"?
 
It's apart of Kal's page revisions that have yet to get through

User blog:Kaltias/Draft of the new Abstract Existence page

Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

Examples: Apocalymon (Digimon), Madoka Kaname (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)


Type 2: Embodies a concept, thought, or idea, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill them, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.

Examples: The Seven Great Demon Lords (Digimon), many Demons from Shin Megami Tensei


Type 3: Embodies a concept, thought, or idea, but the destruction of the former isn't needed in order to destroy or affect them. These characters are often corporeal beings, and the powers granted by this type of abstract existence are strictly dependent from what is shown in their respective verse.

Examples: The Creation Trio ( Pokémon)
 
Well then, I'm gonna be real. I have no idea what kind she would be. I guess it would be some combination of all 3, largely focusing on the first if I had to choose one. When she invokes the favour of The Fifth Ode to Bezheleheth, she literally becomes a song. She exists everywhere that song is played out, from the sound waves to the people singing or dancing along, and can spread around and exist in various objects. That being said, I would assume the actual God itself is the song on a greater scale. Also, to make things more complicated, The Fifth Ode to Bezheleheth is a fragment of what I assume is the full and complete Carnivorous Symphony, the original Bezheleheth. She also gets restored by the greater song and god, hence her type 8, but I guess that is not unique to just the abstract gods. I guess it could be noted that she is much more cheerful in tune than the full blown conceptual gods.
 
My head hurts from trying to wrap itself around all that.

That's not something I say often.
 
Not...really? Just the ones with really complicated shit in them.

Or are you telling me your head hurt the first time you walked into a match involving someone as simple as The Hulk?
 
That's also not entirely true. It really does apply to any Verse you don't know if they're using any sort of cosmology. Imagine walking in to something like Bleach or Naruto, stuff that isn't that complicated, and trying to understand what it is on a basic level for people who barely utilize its rules or cosmology.
 
I've actually done that before, though. Although Naruto matches still make my head hurt, for completely different reasons.
 
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