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In-verse fights are the best right? The President vs Han Jee-Han & Kwon

Ricsi-viragosi

Ricsi-viragosi

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Well then, now that two on one fights can be added, let's do this.

Han Jee-Ha

Kwon Shi-Yu

The President

Han and Kwon have 1 month prep time, and know that they will fight the president (they have their canon knowlege on it as well).

The president is willing to kill Han this time, but wants to make him part of the company.

He doesn't care about Kwon.

(And before anyone says the president scales above Han due to being comparable to Hwan, Hwan was already weakened and was still slapping them around with relative ease, only having problems with their ressurection).


The president
What is this
Kwon 1
 
One month prep time?

Risci...why????????? Han with prep is almost as bad as Batman with prep. Seeing as how he'll have canon knowledge, then the only thing of concern to him will be the time manipulation. But Han likely has resistance to that. And he also has resistance to mind manipulation.

The President likely has an AP advantage seeing that he should be comparable to Hwan. But majority of his company will be one shot by Han or Kwon.

Main thing he has going for him is his gravity manipulation, and his Regenerationn. But seeing as how Han now has mind manipulation, and Kwon has her drill technique, together the two of them should be able to more than manage.
 
Not how two on one fights work. Since these two can function independently of one another and often do so, I don't think that you can add this.
 
Wokistan said:
Not how two on one fights work. Since these two can function independently of one another and often do so, I don't think that you can add this.
Click to expand...
I actualy brought this up, and others said it was allright.
 
Litentric Teon said:
Risci...why????????? Han with prep is almost as bad as Batman with prep.
Click to expand...
Don't you give me idea's now.


But to be the devil's advocate:

-They, despite being somewhat hivemindish, showed to be not connected at all times (so han can't just hax one and affect all).

-His mindhax only works if someone was very weakened, and even then it's supposedly hard to get off without being in someone's mind.

-He's attacks will do very little damage to the funds of the company, mostly because he only ever preocupied about EE making him loose more money than Hwan is worth.

-The company actualy uses the pillars (has han got them back yet?).

-reality warping through buying reality can be really problematic (as long as he gives proper comands anyways).
 
Han likely won't hax the members of the company. His AP is enough to one shot them. Spinning mana arrows and lightning storms working in conjunction with summons and golems. The only difference between the company and the church, is that the company has more varied abilities, but the average member of the church is superior to the average member of the company. Hwan was one shotting them as well. As were Hwan's summons.

No, I don't think Han has gotten the pillars back yet.

Reality warping is the largest issue. But I'm fairly certain that a month of prep would allow Han to figure something out. Plus, he also has his magic nullification, which wouldn't impact Kwon.
 
I mean, the company's members were (at least th estronger one's, oh whom he has dozens) stomping on Lolikiano, so the AP difference isn't that big.
 
The only one that stomped Lolikiano was the CEO. The rest fell victim to her scythe of life and were one shot. Minus the one dude with red hair who beat Zagan.
 
Litentric Teon said:
The only one that stomped Lolikiano was the CEO. The rest fell victim to her scythe of life and were one shot. Minus the one dude with red hair who beat Zagan.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but he later summoned people on the CEO's level against Hwan.
 
Most of them were one shot though, or taken care of by Hwan's summons. The only person Hwan didn't oneshot was the President himself. And that was just because he was low on power. Once he was fully restored he one shot him with the Black Sun.
 
Litentric Teon said:
Most of them were one shot though, or taken care of by Hwan's summons. The only person Hwan didn't oneshot was the President himself. And that was just because he was low on power. Once he was fully restored he one shot him with the Black Sun.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that doesn't make them scale below loli. Pretty sure he could one-shot her just as easily. The dude, as of now, should at least be in the 24~28 tons area (he should have been comparable to current Han once restrictions came off, plus the people he absorbed).

The Black Sun is EE...
 
True, but we don't know how strong Han is compared to Hwan as we now have inconsistent statements. One where Han is just one step below Hwan, meaning he's above his master. And, if the most recent translation is correct, one where Han is now equal to his master after the arc is over. It doesn't make much sense.

Fair enough. But the Black Sun didn't work the first time. And he still one shot the guy during the fight. The President had to resurrect during that battle.
 
It's inconsistent with how Han is compared to Loli. Hwan is still rapresented as stronger.

He is, simply put, irrelevant in this fight. Han doesn't scale to him, so whatever he did doesn't matter.
 
But as we both know, his magic power directly translates to his AP. And there was an explicit statement saying that Han was only one step below Hwan, which was before numerous power ups. So saying that what Hwan did during that fight to be irrelevant is actually strictly false. Hwan shouldn't be at a global level either, so the two (three including Loli) are certainly comparable. And the scaling is likely something like Loli<<<Han<<Hwan. At least based on statements, as we don't have a number on Hwan's mana or level.

But none of that should take away from the general logic given at the beginning.
 
Raw MAna directly translates to APwith one attack only.

He was described as being below Hwan, and now described as below lolikiano with the exeption of raw mana. Power-ups or not, he is stated to not be stronger than her, and Hwan is far stronger than her.

And that argument did also say that his AP is enough to one-shot. He is weaker than Lolikiano, like it or not, so that is simply false.
 
But that's just the thing, he's not weaker than Loli. The feats objectively say otherwise, as does his mana. There was literally a statement where he was said to be a single step below Hwan, and this is from an official translation, not from the most recent, tentatively translated chapter.

Unless Lolikiano is somewhere between these steps (which would leave a giant hole in logic), Han must be superior to her somehow. Perhaps she's simply more skilled or experienced than he. But in terms of raw magical power, he's been stated to have magic power that exceeds her. Mana isn't simply power all applied in one shot, otherwise Yoowha would be superior to Han for taking his mana in one shot. At least her durability vs his AP. But she's not. They're roughly equal in the majority of their stats. As his regular attacks were plenty able to harm her.

His raw magic power is, often times, what grants him his resistance to power nullification. Not that he has to be stronger, but his magic power has to be sufficient enough to resist what's being produced. You yourself compared it to a d*** measuring competition previously. Showing that indeed, magical power, and AP, do indeed rely on mana in the case of mages.

Considering that a good deal of the company doesn't even share the AP of Han, many of them would be one shot. And considering the statement of being a step below Hwan, and the numerous powerups since then, he should be able to one shot a vast majority of the company's members.

But, once again, this doesn't take away from the argument presented earlier. With regards to the mind manipulation, and Han literally being made to fight armies by himself. I think to disregard the comparison between Han and Hwan, Han's enormous growth since last arc, and compare that to what Hwan as shown would be incorrect. We in fact, have to compare to Hwan for he is the only one who has fought against the company aside from Loli and her druid. But he is the only one who fought against the President. And Han should be scaling to all of them, just as they derive their scaling from being somewhere vaguely above him. That vaguely being not all that high considering he's one step below Hwan.

The reference for him being just one level below Hwan is Season four, episode 5. Well before some of the numerous boons of the arc.
 
Yoohwa was litiraly taking power from thousends of members of the church, which does matter for her tanking it as Han points out that he lost energy because of it.

She is also far stronger than him in mosts stats, with his mana pool being the major difference there, Han could just outlast her, but she was both faster and stronger while spiritualized.

There is also the fact that Han felt the need to point out that he is only superior in mana is also a thing. Raw mana can help with AP, but skill is far better than just blasting someone with it, , which is why his skills are actual useful.

Plus, "one level below him" is just as hard to quantify.


And again, most of the stuff han doesn't have much answer to.

His mindhax doesn't work on multiple people, nor does it work until they are severly weakened, which is near impossinle with the regen the company has,

Blasting them till they die is also a very unlikely thing to work here.

The most important thing is that the moment it buys the place, Han lost. Han doesn't have EE or such things to really damage the company's money with one attack, so after that they can just freeze him, have the pillars sap away his power and eventualy kill him
 
Firstly, Hwan was able to damage the President's assets through continuously destroying his company. Loli managed to do the same as she was also killing members of the company. Assets are used to resurrect them so as long as Han kills them, he's depleting their assets. Not to mention that he can seal many of them inside of his golems.

Secondly, since when does his opponent have to be severely weakened for his mind hax to work. Yoohwa had literally just pounded Han's stomach in when Han used it on her. I'm fairly certain she had all the power in the world inside her mental space. His mind manip would be sufficient, especially since the President has no resistance feats. He only needs to hit the President once, and that would be it. The President would merely go insane, or somethin of that sort.

The nine pillars can be taken care of in literally the same manner that he did before. Or he can have his golems take them down. It's really not that large of an issue for him. Not to mention that, canonically, I don't think The President would have them anymore. And this also doesn't factor in Kwon, who can likely bust through the pillars herself.

And blasting them till they die is basically what Hwan did. He just kept one shotting them and finished the last of his assets off with The Black Sun.

The point with Yoowha and Han is that the two are rather closely comparable to each other. His full mana strike hurt her as well as his plain physical attacks. That's simply the matter of what occurred. In spite of her being stronger and faster (though not by an insurmountable margin by far), Han was still able to hurt her with mere physical attacks numerous times.

"One level below him", while unquantifiable, is still a statement that puts Han as nigh immediately comparable to Hwan. That there's no longer a huge gap in their abilities.

Also, mana is almost the only thing that helps with AP unless someone has some kind of stat amping skill. Being good a magic does not make someone more powerful. It only makes them more effective in a fight. That's just in general.

Also, does the President have any other good fights? He's a good character and I feel like he has the hax to take on some good 7-C characters.
 
The EE was the thing that made him go in red, not just killing them. He wasbarely affected by them being killed.

Since always. He even specified that it's easier to use in a mental space, which is why he had that happen instead of just using it.

By the time he lost them he kinda became god. There was some time between the two, but he lost 90% of his assets too.

Again, it was the EE that actualy damaged him in a more lasting way.

He was amping himself with TK mostly, beyond that she was immune to physical attacks.

That's just false. Most of his skills specificly make the attack more powerfull.

Not right now.


Plus, again, buying reality is the thing that really would make him win. Han can defeat them before that, but claiming it to be easy is just untrue.
 
Looking back, I think I'm more so agreeing with what you're saying. Not on the fight but on the general scaling. I still think it goes Loli < Han << Hwan. But I think we can agree that Han and Loli should at least be very comparable to each other.

Which skills of Hwan's or Loli's are you referring to? Perhaps I was using the wrong definition of skill above. I was talking about skill in using the power itself, not skill in terms of, "Oh, I have this really unique skill" which is really an ability.

True, it is easier to use in the mental space. But why would it be so much different using it outside of the mental space? His mental shredding/crush technique is not mentioned to have any such changes within said space as opposed to outside of said space. Mental binding, which requires physical contact, is noted to not knock out Yoowha, which seems to be the case due to the mental world. What chapter did he say it was easier in again? Looking back I can't actually find the statement. Though I did find the one where he says that he has more mana than his master at least. That throws a bit of a wrench in him being one level below Hwan, like I was mentioning earlier. But we'll see, you're likely correct here.

When the President buys reality, he has only demonstrated the ability to do like three different things. Manipulate gravity, freeze time, and I forgot the third. But I mean, sending Han to the ground doesn't send his magic to the ground. Han is also resistant to time stop.

I also don't see how it was just pure EE when Hwan was killing them with amped punches and kicks. He only erased one or two people, and use void manipulation to finally kill the President after depleting him of his assets through killing his company time and time again. Han's even more efficient at taking out large swaths of enemies, and has a decent finisher in terms of his mind manipulation. Or he can even go with incapacitation through his douchery plus shackles into sleep manipulation combination. Or, if Han simply nullifies all the magic in the space, He and Kwon can easily dispatch of them, given that they won't have access to magic. Though this does assume that The President and his company all use magic, which may or may not be true. There's all kinds of energy in the verse it seems. Mana. Energy. Black soul thing that Hwan and Seong-A use. Idea/Thought energy that fuels gods like Arc Company.
 
Most of his skills (that aren't plain mana blasts) offer extra power.


It is pointed out in chapter 40, and there it's clarified that it works that way because just as how she can attack him mentally, it works the other way around as well.

Nearly all his min-hax clarifies that it works like that on normal people, which is why she isn't affected by most stuff for more than a few seconds.


Han's resistance to time-stop doesn't work here. It works on basis of supernaturals not being affected, which is obviously not true here.


The president only mentions that they are going in red while the EE is being used, and was laughing in Hwan's face otherwise.


Plus, again, if he can defeat it before it buys the reality, because at that point it can just freeze them, and then procced to keep punching them till they die.
 
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