Gabriel (A certain magical index) vs. One piece verse

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gabriel_(To_Aru)

vs.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece

Will the angel of water defeat the devil fruit eaters? Or will it be the other way around?

For this particular fight, no Astro Hand, simply Gabriel from world war III arc.

All one piece characters allowed at the same time. Battle takes place in Dressrosa island.

GreatestSin · Jan 8, 2016

without astro hand OP-verse wins, actually, if law can get her into his room i think OP-verse would win evn if she has astro hand,

thanks to sugar and her puppet power OP only needs one oppurtunity, even if gabriel is immortal im sure he/she/it wont be able to do anything if transformed into a toy

Alakabamm · Jan 8, 2016

What stops Gabriel from carpet bombing though? Law would - in no way or form - ever been in range of it (it usually flies thousands of meters above the ground) and Gabriel can fairly easily drop mountain destroyers on the verse and swoop down to take on harder foes (Admirals, Pirate Emperors, etc). I guess Sugar's hax are a fair strategy but do we know the effect it has on devil fruit users/didn't that one dude break away from its control?

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

If we assume that Sugar can turn gabriel into a toy, there's also the problem of her being literally 50 of so kilometers above the surface of the earth, not to mention, she primarily uses ice and water which makes her effective against all logia type users.

One may also argue that since Gabriel is an Angel of water, and something like devil fruit powers which weakness is water may not end up working on them. That's also combined with the fact gabriel is some major reality warping abilities (can potentially kill all 6 billion people on the planet by moving the constillations). But in this thread Garbriel isn't going to use astro in hand like in angel fall because that's just too OP.

One piece characters are rated massively hypersonic, but I think that only applies to combat speed. Luffy took a really long time getting from one end of dressrosa to another to get to Doflamingo, and characters often use old technology like battleships which sale at less than 60 kilometers per hour.

GreatestSin · Jan 8, 2016

^^no, the guy who wasnt controlled was only turned into a toy but not given orders, he was able to flee before that happened...

^there are more users, doffy can causually destroy all meteors gabriel summons, they have someone who can make everyone invisible, than the dude with the rotation-fruit takes sugar alongside law and invisible-guy on his back, in close proximity law can use hiw room and teleport sugar on gabirel,

or they use gravity-guy and bring gabriel down, plus there is someone who can "rost" living beings, and gabriel would be affected too (in her physical state which i assume is the one that matters since otherwise he is immortal and this fight wouldnt have any use), or they use BB and negate gabriels abilitys (if he comes in contact with her), there is also enel which i assume can fight too (his electricity would be really powerful against gabriel) and also smoker which would kill/weaken gabriel with a single touch...

i agree that in a one on one the only persons i see having a chance are Law and BB, but in a all out fight there are to many combinations which OP-verse can use ^_^

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

Blackbeard can only negate devil fruit powers. Given the fact that even within his own universe he cannot negate haki, I doubt he would be able to do anything to Gabriel. He has the ability to make quakes via whitebeards power, and create fake black holes, but I doubt either would work on Gabriel.

In a certain magical index, there are esper powers and magic powers, Gabriel is considered an angel and a magical entity. There was something about a hiearchy of how humans can never match angels in power and given. It was implied that normal magicians had the ability to counter abilities such as voodo doll curses, I can only imagine how much greater the curse counter measures would be for an angel.

Curse Countermeasures: It has been said that any decent magician can sense the signs of simple curses like the Ushi no Koku Mairi and put together countermeasures against them. It can be assumed that most magicians possess a resistance to curses, with the effectiveness likely depending on the curse's strength and the magician's skill.

Enel's electricity is strong but not very potent. Misaka has a higher voltage of a billion volts compared to Enel's 200 millon. For him to make enough clouds to destroy a city would take some time, and by then, with a single flap of Gabriel's wings, she could have dispersed all of the thunder clouds.

If we assume that devil fruit powers such as Sugar's work on Gabriel (which I doubt due to her being a higher being meaning no ordinary power would be able to harm her) someone like Sugar is nowhere fast enough in order to touch her.

Suppose they use Fujitora to bring law into the sky using gravity, suppose law throws a bunch of rocks and uses shambles to switch Sugar with one of the rocks, by that time, Gabriel would have already flapped her wings enough times to cut them into pieces.

The difference between Gabriel and somoene like Akainu is that she has pretty much unlimited stamina. Her wings casually destroy mountains, and she can pretty much continue indefinitely.

Akainu is strong but he has limited stamina, he can't go busting mountains indefinitely.

The thing about one piece characters is that they are fast but only during combat, they are pretty slow during travel speed. They are also limited by stamina for example Luffy in gear 4 can only move at massive hypersonic speeds for a short period of time before he becomes useless for 10 minutes.

As for law, he wouldn't be able to cut Gabriel like he does with a bunch of inorganic materials because he couldn't even do that with Doffy (who nearly killed him and probably would have if it wasn't for Luffy).

Gabriel doesn't really use meteors though, she uses water wings which can flatten mountains or city's easily with something like literally air pressure.

As for someone like Akoiji, I think it's best to leave him out of the fight because Gabriel can simply steal all the ice he makes and use it to counter attack (she apparently was going to melt all of the North Pole in order to restore her wings after being weakened by a Saint, but she was stopped by either Kazikiri, Accelerator or Touma)

BTW who is the person with the rotation fruit? I'm up to date on one piece but I don't remember someone like that.

DontTalk · Jan 8, 2016

Gabriel can regenarate even if just his energy is left, which makes it almost impossible to kill. To that comes the lack of flight for most of one piece. Sugar may be the only one that has a chance to end the fight (don't even talk about killing gabriel), but for doing so would need a coordinated and planned operation from the one piece characters, which is unlikely as long as they don't know Gabriels abilitys. (not to mention difficult to pull of against such an powerful opponent)

Gabriel on the other hand has quite of an advantage here. Why? Because they fight on an island. Pretty much all strong one piece characters use devil fruits. Gabriel can just raise the ocean to flood the entire island. Hell, it could melt the ice on the planet and cause a planetary flood, that probably covers most islands.

It is of course correct that Gabriel also doesn't know of the powers of his enemys but melting the ice around the world to build up its power is what serious Gabriel usually does, if it is at full power. (at least as far as one can tell from the novel)

One might also add that gabriel negates supernatural senses, so no observation haki for one piece characters.

Devil_slayer99 · Jan 8, 2016

this is gabriel without "astro in the hand " right ?

well i think OP should win this they have characters with the same speed and attack power and there a lot of hax as wellso they should eventually be able to beat him

BTW gabriel have type 3 and 4 Immortality does that make much different ?

GreatestSin · Jan 8, 2016

^^^haki isnt a superpower in OP, the equivalent of haki in the toaru-universe would be technology like the ones the kiharas used in NT4 (except for dark matter woman), that means BBs DF should work since toaru is practically only consisting out of supernatural abilitys (which are in OP the DF-powers)

if we use this "angel cant be harmed by lesser beings" thing than this whole fight would be a mismatch, but i doubt that this even worked in toaru, afterall in WW3 accel easily harmed gabriel while being in human-realm

i wouldnt use linear scaling simply based on numbers, different verses use different amounts for different feats, enel casually spams the attack of misaka while she was forced into a awakening in her manga despite having "lower energy", it depends on how the author wants to use the numbers

sugor is actually really fast, she easily touched a lot of mini-humans who move at really fast speeds in a matter of moments, but i think you mean movement speed, this is why i said that she works with others ^_^

law doesnt need to use stone as exchange, he can teleport without that in his own room (i think it is more exhausting than switching places therefore he doesnt use it in fights), he showed it while taking chopper in the ceaser-arc

i agree in a straight out fight between them gabriel would win, but this is OP vs gabriel

on the other hand gabriel doesnt have high combat speeds, she has high travel speeds, the only times she used her powers was with her standing in the air and spamming water-like-attacks ^_^

he should be able to do it, doffy was only able to not gets cut because he moved really really fast, law wasnt able to keep up, but like i said gabriel (as far as i remember never had high-stats in close combat except for her quirck attack-spamming in order to keep up with her enemys) never showed quirck-short movements like doffy...

can you tell me where she was mentioned to have destroyed a mountain or city with a single flip of her wings? in angel fall arc she wasnt really impressive excpet for the "i will f*ck half of humanity"-thing which never happened

and in WW3 her strongest attack was he spamming of a 2km-radius big meteor falling :I

yeah, aokiji is really at a disadvantage :I but there is still the light-dude ^_^

i mean the one from the doffy-family, the guy who can fly and took the weapon-transformation-girl with herself to the island where luffy and co stopped ceaser

@devilslayer

as far as i know it means she cant die by "normal ways", stuff like reality warping should still function (like allfiction or so)

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

I don't think it's fair to say Haki isn't a super power in one piece. Firstly not everyone can use it, for exampel fodder characters are unable to use it. Secondly it's a power of precog, conquerer, and armanent which allows them to damage logia users.

It's more like the equivalent of esper abilities rather than technology. Technology is more like what they use (lasers, cannons, that coup de burst thing).

A giant wing-like object stretched from the blue point of light cutting horizontally across the entire visible portion of the heavens.

With a bit of a delay, an explosive noise pounded at Kamijou's ears.

A few dozen of the unmanned fighters sweeping across the Russian sky were blown to pieces. The fighters that showed life-like movements must have been the ones with actual pilots. A few of those had their main wings severed and Kamijou could see the pilots frantically attempting to escape with their parachutes.

The destruction did not end there.

That blue point of light had swung that giant wing solely to blow away that formation of unmanned fighters. However, the giant wing disintegrated partway through breaking it in half. The severed half flew on and created a gigantic explosion near the horizon where it landed.

An enormous mass of dirt flew up into the air.

An entire mountain had been blown away.

"Well, Angel Fall was an accidental spell. With a summoning method based on and derived from that, stability is a bit of a problem."

It wasn't normal.

The difference in numbers had been overturned in an instant.

That was an angel.

An angel was a being that held overwhelming power.

Also, that was Gabriel in casual form. (she was also weakened due to fiamma's summoning of her, Fiamma's power technically comes from a fire angel Michelle, which is the opposite of Gabriel which has water abilties meaning she was technically weakened by there mere summoning)

So basically Gabriel can casually destroy mountains, even more so than Akainu.

There is one slight problem though with using sugar in this situation. The temperature at this altitude is somewhere within the -50 degrees celcius range. Maybe akainu could survive, and maybe even someone like luffy could survive with gear 4 and armanent haki (if that actually helps him in cold temperatures),

but someone like sugar who is really just a little girl (she caught a bunch of little people but that puts her at the speed of super sonic at best) who got literally trauamatized by Usopps screaming face may be knocked out before she can even touch gabriel.

As for Kizaru he light speed is really questionable, because Rayleigh kept up with him. We're assuming he's only light speed in travel but even that is a bit questionable since he doesn't get to everywhere instantneously. (one piece light travels slower maybe?).

I don't think Kizaru has the amount of power needed to take down Gabriel by himself, and considering his combat speed, he wouldn't be able to blitz her.

If you are talking about baby 5 and bufallo, I think they really won't do much but be fodderized. Gabriel took down Academy City planes that can travel at Mach 7. Baby 5 and Buffalo wouldn't even get near her.

I actually agree with the sugar thing. If they somehow manage to protect sugar so that she can touch Gabriel, they may be able to win, but that's probably the only way. I also mentioned the thing about atompshere (low oxygen, cold temperatures, stated explicity in the light novel too)

GreatestSin · Jan 8, 2016

^haki can be used by everyone, but it isnt awakened, some people simply have a lot more potential and a genetic speciality which gives hem the 3rd haki-power, the other 2 are completly natural ^_^

you didnt need to post the part i would have looked it up mysefl (does BT work again?) but thanks

for the kizaru thing, his attacks are lightspeed, if he moves in light-form than he moves with lightspeed too but haki allows mind-reading, this was how luffy dodged several laser-beams ithout needing to be lightspeed at all... either way, he wouldnt be able to kill gabriel but take her attention,

yeah, i mean buffalo, not as attack-potency but as transportation, he can take sugar and co into the near of gabriel, invisible-guy can be used to allow them to get closer...

and for sugars durability: thanks to law, ceaser and ace/sabo i think there shouldnt be any effects on sugar despite being so far in the air ^_^

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

Well the thing about Kizaru is that he may say his attacks are light speed but if they truly were light speed, he would probably have one shot Rayleigh. Rayleigh wouldn't be able to move fast enough to avoid an attack that is truly light speed even with precog. It's like knowing your going to get shot in the head, but you're too slow to stop the bullet.

Moving at light speed literally means your opponent is like not moving at all. Almost like time stop. So they know you are there, can they really stop you from killing them if they aren't even moving? Either that or light speed travels slower in one piece?

Either way it doesn't show that he is actually light speed in combat even if he claims it.

The thing about haki is even though it can be used by everyone, it is still considered a supernatural power, and the reason for this is because it doesn't exist in the real world. In Toaru, everyone can use magic except espers (well they can it just means they suffer getting injured badly, blood vessels bursts etc.)

Simply because everyone in one piece has it doesn't mean it's not a supernatural abilitity. Otherwise by that logic imagine breaker would never work in the index verse because everyone CAN use magic.

Also, it's explicitly stated that black beard can negate devil fruit powers specifically, not all supernatural abilities (he doesn't have imagine breaker) thus he can't stop someone like rayleigh from beating him with Haki (even though he has no devil fruit powers).

I don't think Bufallo would work very well as transportation. He would probably be shot down like those planes in the WW3 arc much more quickly.

Fujitora may be able to reverse gravity and provide some sort of lift, but nowhere fast enough to get sugar that high.

Also, are you suggesting they warm the air at such a high altitude with sabo/ace? If they use Bartomelo to make a barrier around sugar, and get ace/sabo inside to keep the tempreature steady, the oxygen within the barrier will run out rather quickly. If you allow a hole to let oxygen in within the barrier, she may end up getting knocked out due to lack of oxygen. I suppose you can use caesar to compensate.

There's a few problems with this scenario. The first is aim, if you were to use someone to give an initial velocity to reach that altitude (which would probably kill sugar due to the extremely fast acceleration) you would need some pretty high end calculations to account for wind velocity, not to mention the wings that flap around that can destroy planes that can travel 7 times the speed of sound with wind, and flatten mountains easily.

secondly, if Gabriel is continiously flattening mountains, the amount of dust in the air makes it almost impossible to navigate/aim, so even if we have a scenario where caesar is using his gas to provide thrust for the makeshift rocket, it wouldn't work out that well, not ot mention one piece characters may have that high level of durability, but they will get deflected easily if they are in the air, and blown back to the ground.

and the final problem if doing this is that sugar needs to touch Gabriel, assuming they were instantly next to gabriel (and she doesn't move despite them coming closer) once bartomelo drops the barrier, sugar would freeze to death due to the extreme winds (ace/sabo don't have accelerator's calculaton, they won't know where to heat the air so it doesn't burn sugar for being too large of freeze her to death by being too small without bartomelo's barrier.

I could also see Gabriel using the ocean's water to enhance her abilities to some extreme measures. Gabriel was on land when they fought in WW3, and Fiamma restricted her abilities a bit by allowing her to only target academy city units, but even that was enough to flatten mountains. If Gabriel had the ocean's water to use, she could create winds that would flatten most one piece characters by just being there which wake the makeshift sugar rocket nearly impossible due to the Mach speed winds blowing them off course)

GreatestSin · Jan 8, 2016

like i said, i think movement-speed is that fast, he needs to materialize and attack, either way, your example isnt really fitting, i agree that with precog i wouldnt be able to dodge a bullet which was already shot at me bu precog allows me to kow what the enemy wants to do, so i know where he wants to shoot, i can simply move away, this is what rayleigh used (and luffy too) in order to dodge laserbeams ^_^

there is a small difference, haki in OP isnt supernatural, it isnt counted as such because the reality of OP allows all beigns to use haki, it is simply a sixth sense like power, a part of their being. Magic on the other hand is explicity stated to be supernatural, it is something that reality didnt plan humans to have it but they use magic in order to manipulate reality to get what they want.

This sounds a lot like "what if" but i dont think that we can simply say "BB cant negate", afterall if this is the case than his power wouldnt work on anyone except for DF.users, as example: the story "Black Cat" uses nanomachines and gives with them the MC electo-powers, if BB fight him than i would think that B can negate his abilitys even if they "technically" arent supernatural-forces, the same for toumas IB

buffalo can be combined with invisible-guy in order to have a stealth operation

as for acceleration speed: Law can teleport them, or the swamp guy is taking sugar into himself which would protect her and releases her hand which could touch gabriel after law teleports them, there are several ways to bring gabriel down (without the need to kill her), even the jacket-guy would be useful, with robins ability and laws teleportation they can teleport jacket-guy near gabriel and robins hands put him on gabriel which will allow jacket-guy to completly control the angel ^_^

Aurasuke · Jan 8, 2016

law's teleportation drains his stamina by a very large amount. He also needs to use shambles in order to do so, he can't do it on his own (it was shown during his fight with doffy he couldn't simply do this).

the size of laws room makes it nearly impossible for him to go further than a few kilometers which is nowhere near gabriel's altitude.

Alternatively, gabriel can always go to satelite orbit and spam attacks from down there (solar radiation would kill anyone who got that high even if caesar can provide oxygen.

Also, we're assuming that they know for a fact gabriel cannot be killed by anything, and sugar is their only option. More realisticly every person who can fight will go up there, but no one would even think to use sugar to turn her into a toy. They don't know they can't beat her without it.

Which is why I'm suggesting Gabriel can go to satelite orbit in order to rain mountain leveling attacks from them from on high, it's not like she would normally, but neither would ace ever think of partaking in a sugar rocket operation.

as for bufallo you probably want barthomelo on to because they would get instantly flatenned by gabriel's wings if they didn't have some sort of protection. but even if they did have a barrier they would probably get swept away by the massive Mach winds.

Also if black beard actually needs to touch gabriel, he wouldn't be of much use anyway.

Also Haki isn't just a 6th sense, it's also armament and logia negation, so technically it actually is another supernatural power. It's kind of how your saying wolverine doesn't have super natural powers because it's genetic and therefore natural, but in reality that is actually a supernatural power because DNA doesn't quite work that way in real life, and wolverine's Regenerationn itself breaks a lot of laws of physics.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

this is why i said that law works with others, he simply needs to come at least near 4 or so kilometers, plus, he can teleport on his own, it was shown in the ceaser arc where he took chopper with himself

this isnt stated, as far as i know her highest point was around 10 or so kilometers (scaling form the fighter jets which im not sure how high they fly), so we can assume that it survives in outer space (exspecially since in outer space its magic would mostlikely get disrupted or maybe completly negated (birdway mentioned somehing like "never before seen new magic systems need to be created" (this was in her conversation with kanzaki in the kanzaki SS)))

if you use "canon fighting style of chars" than gabriel would go down on a few hundred meters above ground for fighting, it didnt take distance even once in his fight with accel and the artifical angel, ven after it got demaged badly...

with invincible-guy buffalo wouldnt be revognized so they can come closer, but this isnt necaessary since gabriel will go down to his enemys

it would, the moment he touches him it would pretty much be victory for OP-verse...

in comparison to RL of course everything is a superpower, but you need to relate it to the respective verses, BB has superpower negation even if it cant negate haki since haki isnt a superpower in the OP-verse ^_^

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

I'm not sure where you got the 10 kilometers thing lol, Gabriel is an angel who came from another world quite literally. The same world where Fiamma filled the sky with heavenly golden light, and filled the entire world with "godly" materials, which apparently were of no use because no one could melt it or mould it or something like that.

if we're going with in character fights it would end up like this I suppose.

firstly buffalo, bartholomelo and ace would never think of working together, the navy would likely attempt to use some sort of technology or hot air balloons, something to get closer to gabriel,

Gabriel would use water wings and slice them apart in the air, no one would be able to get close

if we're going with characters making their best moves with knowledge of each other's abilities (they know that no amount of attack would hurt Gabriel, and their only chance is with sugar)

then what would happen is Gabriel would fly to the north pole, augment her powers with the ice/water there, and flood the entire world. Either that or she could fly at satelite orbit, but North Pole seems more probable considering she had tried to before but was stopped by Kamijou (with plot, something about the star of betheheim crashing on her basically a really convienient plot device)

if Gabriel flies to the north pole, her powers would be augmented to country level+, and thus no one in one piece could even get closer to her without being killed. If all islands are flooded in one piece, then devil fruit users can't survive even in logia form either because they are weak against water.

So that's my counter argument for each character making their best moves, It's quite obvious that buffalo would never think of working with baromelo, ace/sabo, caesar, or sugar for a mission that has no guarantees and will probably result in them being sliced from the sky by Mach speed winds, but if Gabriel does anything that's remotely intelligent she would probably just head to the north pole, and no one would be able to stop her literally.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

i got it from the fact that the jets had the same higth as gabriel while beign destroyed, and a higher altitude wasnt mentioned so we can say if she can go higher (with the immense cold she would also have trouble since she will turn into ice (which would be counter productive considering the fact that she needs water as energy-source))

im not sure what the "godly" materials had to do with it :I

or it goes with bart and everyone else helping each other (in a scenario where everyone makes their best move, which is the most used way of fighting in such matches) ^_^

and in this cases i would see OP having more than one chance to take gabriel down exspecially considering that their is also a person with the power to turn everyone into a emo which should affect gabriel too (out of verse equiv)

for the thread: i think it is concluded, it wouldnt be a mismatch, OP has a chance if they work together, thanks to the immense amount of different abilitys there are a lot of strategys for OP to use ^_^ in a one on one i give it to gabriel

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

So in other words if Gabriel goes to the North Pole, no one can stop her. Gabriel is made of telesma, a godly form of magic, it's pretty much unaffected by anything ordinary.

NotEvenHuman · Jan 9, 2016

GreatestSin said:
i got it from the fact that the jets had the same higth as gabriel while beign destroyed, and a higher altitude wasnt mentioned so we can say if she can go higher (with the immense cold she would also have trouble since she will turn into ice (which would be counter productive considering the fact that she needs water as energy-source)) im not sure what the "godly" materials had to do with it :I
or it goes with bart and everyone else helping each other (in a scenario where everyone makes their best move, which is the most used way of fighting in such matches) ^_^

and in this cases i would see OP having more than one chance to take gabriel down exspecially considering that their is also a person with the power to turn everyone into a emo which should affect gabriel too (out of verse equiv)

for the thread: i think it is concluded, it wouldnt be a mismatch, OP has a chance if they work together, thanks to the immense amount of different abilitys there are a lot of strategys for OP to use ^_^ in a one on one i give it to gabriel

Gabriel having trouble with ice, Lmao. Gabriel has full control of water and ice. Her wings are made of ice. Why do you think lower temperatures are a problem? For the ghosts, Gabriel never showed any sign of emotion. I don't think an ability that makes you emo would work on someone with no emotions. I don't remember the jets being at the same altitude as Gabriel. You should remember that Gabriel's wings are gigantic. In a scenario where everyone makes their best move, Gabriel just flies to an altitude they can't reach and carpet bombs them. Or just floods the island and then carpet bombs. Gabriel wins.

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

Gabriel is an Angel of water, but her wings are made from ice. Her form is Telesma which is kind of like godly magical power. Normal humans can't wield it without getting killed, and even saints have their limits.

Telesma have properties that are different from real world matter and energy which is why accelerator wasn't able to manipulate Gabriel's vectors. He doesn't know all the rules of magic.

Even Saints can survive the vaccumn of space, and they are merely humans with the power of god. An angel who is on a whole other tier than any saint, and is probably just below the magic gods in terms of hiarchy within the magical plane.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

Aurasuke said:
So in other words if Gabriel goes to the North Pole, no one can stop her. Gabriel is made of telesma, a godly form of magic, it's pretty much unaffected by anything ordinary.

than why did you create this thread in the first place? plus, like i said before, base-accelerator was able to hurt gabriel so there is no "ordinary attacks wont hurt gabriel"

^^her power isnt ice, it is water, this is why she needed o turn ice into water in order to use it, that means if she is in a place where it is f*cking cold it will weaken her since ice isnt her element (even the things she shoots are more water than pure ice...), for the emotions: she has emotions (watch/read angel fall arc

, otherwise the "sweeping in the air" wouldnt have been used in the LN, there wasnt a mention of "shooting down her attacks on the jets" which would suggest a higher altitude, im not saying gabriel doesnt win, i said OP has chances to win, they have the capability to use strategy and teamworkin order to defeat her...

^more water than ice as far as i remember..

saints only survive outer space via spells, it is not like their "standing in a hiarchy" is protecting them somehow ^_^

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

Misha isn't the same as Gabriel. Gabriel is the archangel that uses Misha's body as a vessel. However during the world war III arc, Misha was clearly seperated from Gabriel, as Misha was talking to Touma while Gabriel was busy fightning in the war. They were literally split apart.

I believe also Perona requires a certain range to affect her opponents, but Gabriel is kind of a higher entity, something like motivation probably doesn't even affect her, even something like gender is meaningless.

I read one piece all of it, and I wanted to know if there was someone that I missed, some power that could overturn the situation.

And her wings are made of ice, even though her power is over water. Perhaps in index there's no real distinction as one of them is just the other in solid form. Either way the only thing that did weaken her was actually Fiamma's summoning. FIamma represents fire, and her power is that of water. If anything would weaken her it's higher temperatures not cooler ones.

NotEvenHuman · Jan 9, 2016

GreatestSin said:
Aurasuke said:

So in other words if Gabriel goes to the North Pole, no one can stop her. Gabriel is made of telesma, a godly form of magic, it's pretty much unaffected by anything ordinary.

Click to expand...

than why did you create this thread in the first place? plus, like i said before, base-accelerator was able to hurt gabriel so there is no "ordinary attacks wont hurt gabriel"
^^her power isnt ice, it is water, this is why she needed o turn ice into water in order to use it, that means if she is in a place where it is f*cking cold it will weaken her since ice isnt her element (even the things she shoots are more water than pure ice...), for the emotions: she has emotions (watch/read angel fall arc , otherwise the "sweeping in the air" wouldnt have been used in the LN, there wasnt a mention of "shooting down her attacks on the jets" which would suggest a higher altitude, im not saying gabriel doesnt win, i said OP has chances to win, they have the capability to use strategy and teamworkin order to defeat her...

Her power is ice and water. How can you say her power doesn't involve ice when her wings are made of ice? That's BS. I don't remember Gabriel ever showing emotion during angel fall. What the heck does "sweeping in the air" have to do with emotions? Gabriel doesn't need to shoot down the jets because her wings ( made of ICE ) are so f*cking big that she can hit them from far away. Also, when did Gabriel ever show a limit in how high she can fly? When did Saints ever use spells to survive in space? I personally don't remember them using any. And while their standing in hierarchy is not what's protecting them, it would still make no sense for an Archangel to be unable to survive in space when saints can.

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

When did Saints ever use spells to survive in space? Well it was during the miracle of Endymion movie. It was written by the author and according to the novels which mentions Ladylee (main antagonist of the movie) it's cannon.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

^in angel fall misha was only the veesel, gabriel was the entitiy that acted and spoke, she clearly showed emotions...

yeah but since perona has a net of ghosts going around thriller bark (a whole island in size) and even outside of it i think the range is one of her strong points, for gabriel: he has motivation, afterall he wanted to destroy half of earth in order to get back to heaven

ah, well, i named a few ^_^

im not sure about that, the attacks resembled more water than ice (like the one agaisnt the jets, it was described as "blue strike" or so right?), either way, i think i will stop here since i dont think further debates will bring new stuff to this thread ^_^

NotEvenHuman · Jan 9, 2016

Aurasuke said:
When did Saints ever use spells to survive in space?Well it was during the miracle of Endymion movie. It was written by the author and according to the novels which mentions Ladylee (main antagonist of the movie) it's cannon.

I watched the movie, i'm asking for proof of them needing spells for it, since i don't remember Kanzaki using any spell, or mention having used one.

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

So in conclusion I suppose:

If Gabriel makes her best move and goes to the North Pole, the no matter what one piece does they can't really defeat her as she floods the world.

If Gabriel doesn't go to the North Pole, and instead uses her wings in order to cut down one piece characters from above, while one piece characters are in character, mind in character means taking intelligence, and knowledge into account.

It is highly unlikely sugar will participate in what would be a suicide mission should they get struck down by a massive Mach speed wind even if she was invinsible and protected by a barrier (if they land in the ocean it's pretty much game over).

Rather instead all the one piece high tiers will attempt to collectively strike down Gabriel, then I would said Gabriel takes it after some time due to higher stamina and regen.

If Gabriel for whatever reason decides to be at ground level it is possible but still highly unlike if the characters are in character (meaning they will do things that they normally do when faced with such a threat, not some grandmaster plan Kira from deathnote cooked up for them). Then why will most likely still lose but with higher difficulty for Gabriel, mainly due to Stamina.

If Gabriel is at ground level, and someone like Aleister is commanding one piece characters to tell them her abilities and weakness, it is possible that one piece may win if the sugar plan does work, but that is highly debatable considering that sugar uses devil fruit powers and gabriel is a higher entity, angel> devil I suppose? Or more likely Angel > humans without the power of telesma or a magic god. If sugar is unable to turn gabriel into a toy, then someone like Moirra or that shadow controlling guy has even less of a chance of be able to take the shadow of an angel. If they make a synchronized assault, it may be possible for them to stall her for even a day or two depending on the situation.

The reason I dismissed the idea of then using Buffalo for transport and ace/caesar etc. to reach gabriel is because planes traveling at Mach 7 couldn't even reach her, let alone a makeshift plane that probably goes far less. The wind would be too strong, and they would get knocked down to sea even if they had a barrier to protect them.

NotEvenHuman · Jan 9, 2016

GreatestSin said:
^in angel fall misha was only the veesel, gabriel was the entitiy that acted and spoke, she clearly showed emotions...
yeah but since perona has a net of ghosts going around thriller bark (a whole island in size) and even outside of it i think the range is one of her strong points, for gabriel: he has motivation, afterall he wanted to destroy half of earth in order to get back to heaven

ah, well, i named a few ^_^

im not sure about that, the attacks resembled more water than ice (like the one agaisnt the jets, it was described as "blue strike" or so right?), either way, i think i will stop here since i dont think further debates will bring new stuff to this thread ^_^

I'm not going on a debate about if Gabriel has emotions here.

Assuming they would work, are they fast enough? And can she survive long enough to use them?

Gabriel's wings are blue.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

^^^^i dont really remember the novel talking about ice-wings, it was more like "hard water wings"...

she did show emotion,

i mentioned it not for emotions but for the "how do you know gabriel was at the same higth as the jets"-question you asked, actually, if we go by logic a jet is mostly (actually always) above the target, otherwise they wont be able to attack, so that means that a jet (having a limit by 10 or so km as far as i know) would also indicate that gabriel only flew that high, which is the max hight we can use because nothing else was showed or stated...

saints survive in outer space via spells, in kaori SS kanzaki and birdway wanted to stop the other guy from opening the door because it would launch them into a really dangerous place, that means a saint isnt capable of surviving on her saint-powers alone, birdway could mostlikely pull of such a spell too

Aurasuke · Jan 9, 2016

Didn't Perona's ghosts fail to work on Usopp or something? What reason would we believe it would work on Gabriel even if she did have emotions? Would her being emo even stop her from destroying everything? I mean I'm pretty sure Misha already has minimal emotions but I'm pretty sure the ghosts have to touch you for that to work. Perona doesn't have an attack range that long.

GreatestSin · Jan 9, 2016

^it would, the moment a person is hit with a ghost they get super-depressive, i doubt that they will try to do anything in such a state...

^^^via help of law and others (EXSPECIALLY the door-guy, i totally forgot him, he can take law and the others into his own dimension and than they can simply get near gabriel and finish the fight in a moment) i think that they have a pretty decent chance of victory, not in all fights but out of 100 i would say 50 or so could go to OP-team thanks to strategy

doffy also has parasyte which could control gebriels body,

like i said aurasuke, there are a few in OP who can (if they get the chance) stop gabriel, with that i think a admin can close the thread ^_^

NotEvenHuman · Jan 10, 2016

GreatestSin said:
^^^^i dont really remember the novel talking about ice-wings, it was more like "hard water wings"...
she did show emotion,

i mentioned it not for emotions but for the "how do you know gabriel was at the same higth as the jets"-question you asked, actually, if we go by logic a jet is mostly (actually always) above the target, otherwise they wont be able to attack, so that means that a jet (having a limit by 10 or so km as far as i know) would also indicate that gabriel only flew that high, which is the max hight we can use because nothing else was showed or stated...

saints survive in outer space via spells, in kaori SS kanzaki and birdway wanted to stop the other guy from opening the door because it would launch them into a really dangerous place, that means a saint isnt capable of surviving on her saint-powers alone, birdway could mostlikely pull of such a spell too

Isn't hard water the same as ice. Also, you can tell it's ice from looking at it. I assume the 10km limit you're appliying is to modern day fighter jets. If so, you're wrong because the jets in question were from Academy City. Also, i'm pretty sure even moder day jets can go more than 10km, but i might be wrong. Also, just because she didn't fly any higher doesn't mean she can't. In fact, she didn't even need to. And you're basically saying that Gabriel can only fly to 10km high because that's a jet's limit and she was fighting the jet, even when she's obviously on a whole another level? And i haven't finished Kanzaki's side story yet, but dangerous place doesn't mean outer space.

GreatestSin · Jan 10, 2016

^if i dont take the shown and stated feats than it will be NLF, so, yeah, her "limit" is atleast at a place under out satellites (less than 15 km)

and "dangerous place" means outer space because they had been in a plane using some modern-day way of flying (which brings the plane to the point of minimal gravity and causes it to spare a lot of fuel)

NotEvenHuman · Jan 10, 2016

GreatestSin said:
^it would, the moment a person is hit with a ghost they get super-depressive, i doubt that they will try to do anything in such a state...
^^^via help of law and others (EXSPECIALLY the door-guy, i totally forgot him, he can take law and the others into his own dimension and than they can simply get near gabriel and finish the fight in a moment) i think that they have a pretty decent chance of victory, not in all fights but out of 100 i would say 50 or so could go to OP-team thanks to strategy doffy also has parasyte which could control gebriels body,

like i said aurasuke, there are a few in OP who can (if they get the chance) stop gabriel, with that i think a admin can close the thread ^_^

I don't think the ghosts are fast enough to hit her. Also, Doffy's strings? Really? Gabriel would just rip the strings apart like butter. I don't remember this door guy you're talking about. Also, the fight takes place in Dressrosa, Gabriel has at least Island level AP. Dressrosa wouldn't last long here. Also, this is an entire verse fighting here. For these plans to work, the necessary members would have to stay alive long enough ( not exactly easy on this situation ) and find each other, figure out what to do, know that the people with the necessary abilities exist ( not everyone in OPverse knows each other ) and know that they plan has a chance of working. They would all be dead by the time that happened. OPverse can win this, but only with prep time and prior knowledge on each other and Gabriel.

Aurasuke · Jan 10, 2016

@ Greatest Sin

You seem to be really focused on the ghost thing. I have already stated many reasons why it would unlikely work, and the problems if it even working out if it actually does work.

1. Since you brought this up let me return the favor. You said that we have to equalize cross verses battles right? Perona's ability would be considered a "curse" and any magician literally can kill another non magician via a vodoo doll. That's why they have countermeasures. Now do you believe that random human has the ability to curse down an Angel that even saints couldn't stand up to? To fight on Gabriel's level they needed a saint to weaken her to 50%, Kazikiri an angel of science, and Darkwinged Accelerator who can control all vectors that he understands, in order to even put up a match against her. That's why if we're equallizing the cross verses thing, something like devil fruit powers is likely to have 0 effect on Gabriel whatsoever directly, so to be honest I highly doubt sugar's toy abilities would even work.

Secondly

ASSUMING that devil fruit powers would work on Gabriel, if she flies into the Artic, and floods the world no one would be able to stop her. That would also be a great move for Gabriel to make.

Thirdly

Assuming we have Gabriel in the sky, it would be nearly impossible to get Sugar up there or anyone else that can one hit her due to winds that can LEVEL MOUNTAINS. You can't simply avoid such winds by flying away, you'd get swept up in the ocean.

Fourthly

IF gabriel fights at ground level, there is a very slight chance that one piece characters would win if they work together. The reason being dust would be covering their eyes from gabriel's wings that would literally rip apart the ground meaning they couldn't really navigate. If they planned really well though, it is possible they may be able to touch Gabriel with sugar perhaps out of pure luck or extreme planning.

which is why i'd say

in situation 1, devil fruit powers fail to work to hiarchy

Gabriel wins due to obvs reasons

situation 2

devil fruit powers can work, gabriel is in the sky or north pole

gabriel wins due to reasons explained

situation 3

devil fruit powers work, gabriel is at ground level

one piece characters have a chance of wining if they don't get dust in their eyes so one piece may win with high difficulty, but still more likely gabriel would win due to literally spamming ground everywhere and having nigh unlimited stamina.

NotEvenHuman · Jan 10, 2016

Can anything in OPverse even kill Gabriel? You know, intangibility, High to Low-Godly Regenerationn and Imortallity types 3 and 4, plus nigh-infinite stamina and at least Country level Durability. I don't think anyone on OPverse can kill Gabriel. At least for now.

Aurasuke · Jan 10, 2016

Hmm, maybe the sun? Lol I'm joking, one would need to be at least Fuze Kazikir's level to harm her, or at least the level of Carissa with Curtana. Maybe if they all attacked at once they can damage her, but even then that's only if Gabriel lets them attack all at once without counter attacking.

NotEvenHuman · Jan 10, 2016

GreatestSin said:
^if i dont take the shown and stated feats than it will be NLF, so, yeah, her "limit" is atleast at a place under out satellites (less than 15 km)
and "dangerous place" means outer space because they had been in a plane using some modern-day way of flying (which brings the plane to the point of minimal gravity and causes it to spare a lot of fuel)

Not really. Dangerous place coud be outer space, several kilometers deep underwater, inside a volcano, an entirely different phase... "Dangerous place" means exactly that. A dangerous place. You can't just assume it's outer space like that. Are our satellites that close to Earth? I though they were way further up. Still, 15km is more than enough distance to kill them all safely.

Aurasuke · Jan 10, 2016

I think satelites are at least 100km or higher according to my physics calculations lol.

btw what's this dangerous place argument?

NotEvenHuman · Jan 10, 2016

Aurasuke said:
I think satelites are at least 100km or higher according to my physics calculations lol.
btw what's this dangerous place argument?

I asked for proof that Saints needed spells to survive in space and he said that in Kaori SS, Birdway and Kanzaki didn't want some guy to open some door because it would throw them in a really dangerous place.

Gabriel (A certain magical index) vs. One piece verse

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