Jonathan Joestar vs. Hajime Hinata

Jinsye · Jun 19, 2018

Jonathan Joestar

There are times when a gentleman has to be courageous and fight, even when his opponent is bigger than he is and he knows he's going to lose!
	~ Jonathan Joestar

Powers and Stats

Tier: 8-C

Name: Jonathan Joestar (nicknamed JoJo)

Origin: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (Part I: Phantom Blood)

Gender: Male

Age: 20

Classification: Human, Gentleman, Hamon User

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Body Control, Mastery of Hamon/Ripple (Empowers his body with solar energy and transfer it towards objects and people. This can be used to harm any undead opponent through contact with any living or non-living thing charged with Hamon), Durability Negation, minor Fire Manipulation, Water Manipulation, Magnetism Manipulation, Mind Control and Biological Manipulation, Healing (Of himself and others), Regenerationn (Low-Mid, can heal a broken neck and broken bones), immune to Poison via ejecting the substance out of his body, can transfer his Hamon through objects to damage zombies/vampires behind walls or parts within the body via sendo overdrive, Regenerationn Negation against undead, also has a Hermit Purple-like stand that has clairvoyant/psychic powers alongside Non-Corporeality and Invisibility (He never got the chance to use it though or obtain it himself as he was long dead after it emerged).

Attack Potency: Building level (Defeated Dio's fodder zombies and Bruford. Tackled Dio through a wall).

Speed: Hypersonic+ (Equal in speed with William Anthonio Zeppeli and intercepted a casual attack from Dio).

Lifting Strength: At least Class 5

Striking Strength: Building Class

Durability: Building level (Could survive hits from Tarkus).

Stamina: Very High (Can fight multiple zombies and vampires at once despite being injured), lasted a few minutes despite his neck being pierced.

Range: Normal human melee range with extended melee range with Luck & Pluck and Zoom Punch. Several meters depending on what he channels the Hamon/Ripple through.

Standard Equipment: Luck & Pluck (His sword)

Intelligence: Attended an upper class academy with the intent on graduating as an archaeologist and his archaeological research was the key to unlocking the secret of the Stone Mask. Master of the Ancient Martial Art of Hamon, he managed to see through Dio's plans when no one else could, effective combat strategist, surprisingly well at sleight of hand, as shown by his ability to obtain a handful of roses without anyone seeing and decently skilled with the sword.

Weaknesses: He must maintain a proper breathing rhythm in order to use Hamon. His breathing can be interrupted by outside forces and stop the flow of Hamon.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Sendo Hamon Overdrive
Zoom Punch
Scarlet Overdrive
Underwater Turquoise Blue Overdrive
Metal Silver Overdrive
Life Magnetism Overdrive
Sunlight Yellow Overdrive
Clash with Dio
Hamon effect on undead.

Hamon/Ripple/Sendo: Hamon/the Ripple/Sendo is a form of energy that relies on breathing techniques to replicate the power of the Sun. It can be used to enhance physical attributes, heal wounds, and acts as both an offensive and defensive tool. Due to it's solar connection, it has an advantage over creatures weak to sunlight. Jonathan, through the use of Hamon energy can: increase jumping height, walk on water, strengthen objects and increase their potency, revive plants, bypass and hit targets behind armor and objects, store hamon within organisms like snakes and roses, infuse objects with hamo, mind control, null pain, heal scars, broken bones, wounds and more.
Zoom Punch: Jonathan stretches the joints in his arm via Hamon in order to extend his reach launching his fist forward and strike his opponent.
Sendo Hamon Overdrive: Hamon releases from Jonathan's arm and into whatever he releases it into. It can be used as both a direct and indirect attack, as it has gone from simply transfering into another living being and traveling from walls and mountainsides to release from a specific point.
- Scarlet Overdrive: Jonathan creates a ripple of flame onto a select part of his body. It can transfer onto other objects, which can also catch on fire.
- Underwater Turquoise Blue Overdrive: Jonathan releases a tempest that propels enemies and water away from him. This technique was only used and is likely only to be used under or with water.
- Overdrive Barrage: Numerous Overdrives are sent at once through consecutive attacks.
- Metal Silver Overdrive: Jonathan sends a Ripple that transfers through types of metal. This technique was used against Bruford with his sword.
- Life Magnetism Overdrive: Jonathan either draws life from or gives life to plants. It was used to both draw leaves together like a magnet into the shape of a hang glider (with the aid of Zeppeli) and to revive the wilting flowers of a dead tree.
- Sunlight Yellow Overdrive: JoJo's signature and most powerful attack. Jonathan unleashes a powerful flurry of Hamon-filled punches, attacking fast enough to create afterimages with his fists.
- Supreme Deep Pass Overdrive: Used on Jonathan by William Zeppeli. It had transfered all of his life energy into Jonathan, permanently boosting all of his physical abilities beyond that of his own.
Hermit Purple#2: DIO, after taking over Jonathan's body, awakened a Stand that was originally Jonathan's. It's completely identical to Joseph Joestar's Hermit Purple, which can produce psychic photography used to track the Joestars, and as such should be capable if performing the feats the original had accomplished.

Hajime Hinata

I'd like to be rid of my past too. But I can't. I can't pretend Nanami never existed. It's because of her that we're all alive right now. I can't pretend that never happened.
	~ Hajime to Ryota

Powers and Stats

Tier: At least 8-C, likely higher

Name: Hajime Hinata, Izuru Kamukura, "Ultimate Hope"

Origin: Danganronpa

Gender: Male

Age: Likely 18-20

Classification: Human, Ultimate Hope

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Master Martial Artist, Precognition, Clairvoyance, Genius Intelligence, Hacking, Supernatural Luck, Stealth Mastery, Mind Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation, Can erase memories of periods of up to at least 2-3 years, Data Manipulation, Technological Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Robot Creation, Enhanced Hearing, Enhanced Accuracy (With pinpoint accuracy, he can hit a small target from 30 feet away with or without obstacles or restricting angles), Expert Gambler, Possesses every sort of talent known to humanity, Can detect the lies of others (Outright states that he possesses a Talent that allows him to determine whether or not someone is lying with ease)

Attack Potency: At least Building level (As a completely motivated Izuru Kamukura, Hajime's abilities should be just as great, if not even greater than those shown by Izuru previously)

Speed: At least Supersonic+, likely higher (Far faster than Mukuro, barely dodged a bullet that he wasn't able to see coming until the very last second)

Lifting Strength: At least SuperHuman

Striking Strength: At least Building Class

Durability: At least Building level, likely higher

Stamina: High

Range: Standard melee range normally, higher by using weapons.

Standard Equipment: None

Intelligence: Although he was in the reserve course, Hajime was an accomplished student in his own right, having gotten into his position on his own merits despite lacking a particular talent. During the events of the Neo World Program, Hajime proved himself to be an excellent amateur sleuth, spearheading the efforts to successfully solve every single murder case, all of which utilized roundabout methods with limited evidence. Extraordinary Genius after becoming Izuru Kamukura. He obtained the talents of every single student to ever attend Hope's Peak Academy, turning superhumanly gifted in every parameter related to comment along with becoming the world's greatest physicist, physician, entomologist, pharmacist, detective, impostor, secret agent, programmer, animator, assassin, clairvoyant, and analyst. His faculties are such that he is able to accurately predict every move his opponents would make, casually incapacitating an enemy armed with a handgun and a chainsaw in such a way that his assailant would fall upon his own weapon. Even Junko Enoshima knew that he could easily defeat her if he were ever motivated enough to try despite the fact that her meticulous plans had rapidly plunged the entire world into despair and anarchy.

Weaknesses: None notable

Feats:

Solved the Murder of the Ultimate Impostor
Solved the Murder of Mahiru Koizumi
Solved the dual murder of Ibuki Mioda and Hiyoko Saionji
Solved the Murder of Robot Nekomaru Nidai
Uncovered the truth behind Nagito Komaeda's trap and unmasked the "traitor"
Defeated AI Junko Enoshima
As Izuru Kamukura, destroyed the Shirokuma and Kurokuma robots with relative ease
Defeated 5 elite Future Foundation personnel singlehandedly, apparently without sustaining any damage.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Ultimate Hope: As the subject of the Hope Cultivation Project, Izuru Kamukura (and later Hajime Hinata) gained every talent that had ever been researched by Hope's Peak Academy, only to a significantly greater degree.
- Ultimate Analyst: Junko Enoshima's Talent, Izuru is able to read and analyze anything virtually instantaneously, being able to determine the personality, abilities, thoughts, and history of his foes with a mere glance. As such, he is able to predict virtually anything that comes his way unless it is completely outside of logic and possibility that Izuru has witnessed, such as a student being able to fire a gun after their head was chopped off by a chainsaw.
- Ultimate Clairvoyant: Yasuhiro Hagakure's Talent, which allows Izuru is able to directly predict the future. However, Hagakure only had a thirty percent chance of success, but Izuru's would presumably be higher.
- Ultimate Impostor: Izuru is able to use the data he analyzes from those around him to flawlessly replicate their personality and voice. The original impostor's skills were such that despite the blatantly different build between him and the actual Byakuya Togami, no one around them could believe that the impostor wasn't the actual Togami. In addition, they also seemed to be able to quickly replicate one's clothes, hairstyle, and skills, as they mimicked Munakata's swordsmanship to fight alongside him in combat. As Ultimate Hope, Izuru's abilities should be even greater than the original impostor's.
- Ultimate Lucky Student: Nagito Komaeda's Talent, Izuru possesses incredible amounts of good luck, instantly turning most events in his favor. For instance, when Nagito attempted to shoot Izuru, the gun jammed despite being completely functional moments prior as well as Nagito's own luck. In another fight Nagito had with Izuru, the former was able to completely bring down an entire building by knocking out all of he restraining bolts and nuts simply by throwing a ball, but Izuru was completely unharmed due to his own luck.
- Ultimate Martial Artist: The talent of Sakura Ogami, Izuru is a master of every martial art known to man, being able to flawlessly utilize any number of martial arts at once to create a mixed martial arts style that went undefeated for over 400 victories and even overwhelmed Mukuro Ikusaba's talents as the Ultimate Soldier in Danganronpa IF. As Ultimate Hope, Izuru's skill should be even greater. Izuru should also possess the talents of the other martial artists to have attended Hope's Peak Academy, including the Ultimate Boxer, Ultimate Wrestler, and Ultimate Aikido Master.
- Ultimate Secret Agent: Yuuto Kamishiro's Talent, Izuru is able to completely mask his presence to the point of being completely imperceptible, being able to watch the murders of his classmates while standing right next to them without being seen, heard, smelled, or otherwise noticed.
- Ultimate Soldier: Mukuro Ikusaba's Talent, Izuru possesses every skill related to combat and has mastered them to the point of gaining inhuman levels of strength, speed, and endurance, allowing him to wade through gunfire without taking a scratch and disarm a group of armed soldiers (who were formerly known as Ultimate Talents in their own right) with ease.
- Ultimate Swordsman: Peko Pekoyama's Talent, Izuru is able to use a sword to an extent where it could be better than Peko's swordstyle. Peko could contend with Mukuro, a person that can battle with a lot of fighters at once, albeit the latter, Mukuro, was only using a knife and still managed to somehow be almost equal with Peko.
- Ultimate Neurologist: Yasuke Matsuda's Talent, Yasuke has a broad knowledge and understanding of human psychology and the complexities of the human brain. It's also safe to assume that his medical knowledge also covers variety of other medical specialties as well, not just limited to neurology, Izuru's skills on this field would presumably be higher than Yasuke himself.
- Ultimate Animator: Ryota Mitarai's talent, Izuru possesses immense knowledge and skills in animation. He holds the ability to brainwash or manipulate people's memories with this talent. However, Ryota's Hope Video is imperfect as it requires prolonged exposure to completely brainwash them, but Izuru's would presumably be stronger.
- Ultimate Programmer: Chihiro Fujisaki's Talent, as an expert programmer, Izuru can create artificial intelligence programs that are extremely sophisticated, to the degree where the AI can implant someone's memories into another AI form, just like what Chihiro's Alter Ego did, by using his programming and memories of the Real Chiaki, it has managed to create AI Chiaki. Izuru should be equal or better than Chihiro in terms of programming, as shown that he was able to fix the mental instabilities of his friends inside the Neo World Program by creating an Artificial Intelligence called the World Destroyer.
- Ultimate Detective: Kyoko Kirigiri's Talent, Izuru is an extremely skilled detective and should be able to solve clues with little to no clues, that even Junko Enoshima knew that if he were ever motivated enough to try despite the fact that her meticulous plans had rapidly plunged the entire world into despair, he could still easily defeat her, possibly due to this talent being one of the main factors along with the Ultimate Analyst, as Kyoko was considered to be a threat to her plans and had to make her forget her own Ultimate/Talent in the first game.
- Ultimate Mechanic: Kazuichi Soda's Talent, Izuru is a skilled inventor and a genius mechanic. One of the most successful creations of Kazuichi was his enormous Monokuma robot, which was able to rampage through cities and buildings with ease, Izuru should be able to perform better than what Kazuichi can do.
- Ultimate Musician: Ibuki Mioda's Talent, Izuru is a very talented musician. As a talented musician, he can do anything related to music. Singing, playing instruments, writing lyrics and musics. Ibuki, a talented musician, was able to memorize the order of people that spoke in a power outage where people can't see and also managed to memorize what they've said with 100% accuracy, he should technically have these abilities as he has the same talent as Ibuki.
- Ultimate Gambler: Celestia Lundenberg's Talent, as a skilled gambler, he should be on a par or better than Celestia. For instance, Celestia won a Shogi Tournament without really knowing how the game works (though she claims this was due to her luck she was born with, even though her poker-face helped and was a factor), and also has amassed over ten million dollars at some point.

Speed Equalized.

Stats in the profiles.

Who wins?

Hajime Hinata: 0

Jonathan Joestar: 0

Huesito88 · Jun 19, 2018

I was going to do this eventually =P

Chartate101 · Jun 19, 2018

How does his luck work?

Jinsye · Jun 19, 2018

Makes very improbable things happen (e.g Jamming a gun that was working like 2 seconds before, surviving Russian Roulette with a 1/6 chance of surviving, kicking a tiny pebble that somehow manages to cause a landslide)

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 20, 2018

I feel like shooting a gun and making a house explode is more impressive. I'll wait for more input here, though he's precognition will help

Huesito88 · Jun 22, 2018

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

Hm. JoJo has a slight advantage in range, and his calc puts him above Izuru's minimum. However, I think Izuru takes this because of his analytical prowess and overall skill (Ultimate Bullshit- er, Luck, also helps). The second he notices that JoJo is using his breathing for his Hamon powers, he focuses solely on disrupting his breathing, and once that happens, he makes quick work of the weakened JoJo. JoJo doesn't really have enough offensive hax to get past Izuru's precog, analysis, and overall perfect skill.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

>Offense hax.

Mind control. Body manipulation. Ohko.

Done without direct contact and can be done through chabeling hamon through the ground or objects and walls also .

And disrupting his breathing is almost imposibke.

Hampn users are capable of doing hamon without 90 percent body left .

Jonathan while not a master yet would be able use his breathing despite any potential injury or wound .

Also for skill jonathan would be comparable to will which trained for 30 years and fought and defeated bruford .

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

Few problems with this. First off, it's OOC for JoJo to go for mindhax first, he only did that when he was only minutes or so from dying. Second, disrupting breathing is very possible. It's called striking someone directly in the windpipe. Considering Izuru is more skilled than Mukuro, who could defeat countless 8-Cs while being shot at by mounted machine guns, dodging JoJo's attacks wouldn't be too complicated. It's been shown that Hamon can be seen when weaponized, and Izuru uses his Ultimate Analyst to determine where it's coming from, and then dodges accordingly.

EDIT: JoJo's range advantage is also fairly pointless, now that I think about it, since Izuru can just use Ultimate Secret Agent to become practically undetectable. JoJo doesn't have enhanced senses of any kind, so Izuru can probably blitz him without JoJo even seeing it coming.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Yeah. And if his luck is to be trusted johnathan would eventually be forced into that position quickly.

Dud seeing as various hamon users have done gamon while as litterally a head. And jonathan had hampn remnants a centrury after dying. And could still do a hampn attack after having his throat gutted .

Dude. If jonathan uses hamon on him (and seeing as he isnt undead and thus Jonathan would probably attempt and incapacitation meaning ohko body stun or mind control would be optimal ) itd be far to late. Which probably would the only time hed be seeing the hamon. Seeing as jonathan amping pluck off the bat against a for without a weapon or blatantly evil would obviously be against his character .

Dodging? Hamon can be done with an aoe. And if youre playing the number game jonathan can fight numerous zombies at once and defeat will and bruford can also casually stomp hordes of zombies which range from wall to building. Also hypersonic from speed .

Dodging hamon being channeled would prove quite difficult unless jonathan makes the fact hes doing so obvious which hes not that dense .

Hamon can be used as a radar that seeps through the ground. Also as far as range goes jonathan could channel hamon through a cliff .

Not only that. Hajime would defeat jonathan how exactly?. A hamon barrier can be erected. As will and joseph have oroven . Jonathan holds the ap and durability advantage. And skill debate but for debate lets give that to hajime although jonathan within a few weeks became almost as skilled as a master if hamon from over three decades of experience and a legendary dark warior knight .

Jonathan lands one hamon and hajime would be defeated. Ohko mindhax or body manipulation a few of many ways Jonathan can incapcitaye and seeing as hamon does have feats of being channeled through the ground clifs objects and more with the obscurity of being hardly detectae until a few inches away Jonathan would probably win .

Of course unless hajme can bullshit his way past that and incapcitate joestar before jonathan decides "hamon charge the ground" or an object depending on distance (which seeing as jonathan holds and dictates the starting distance he probably would ). And even being aware of what jonathan can do wont equate being able to prevent that.

Explain how the luck can make jonathan be defeated .

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

Speed doesn't matter, as it's equalized. Also, Hamon is visible. It's not an invisible force that Izuru couldn't notice. Even if it was, he can always use precog to predict what JoJo will do. It doesn't really matter that JoJo can theoretically OHKO Izuru, since he actually has to hit Izuru first, who far outranks him in skill and dodging capability. And yeah, even though Hamon can be transmitted through the ground, it can still be dodged by jumping, as Hamon can't move through air very well. Izuru is a master of countless martial arts types and can switch between them all fluidly, and along with Ultimate Analyst, Impostor, Clarivoyant, and Soldier he predicts all of JoJo's attacks and proceeds to dodge them all. Another thing to note is that Izuru's bare minimum is barely below JoJo's, and he's likely got the AP advantage, considering he can casually stomp Mukuro, who has comparable dura to JoJo, also being building class. The biggest reason why Izuru wins is because JoJo has enough exploitable weaknesses for Izuru to take advantage of using his abilities.

EDIT: His luck doesn't do anything direct, but it's incredibly powerful, so even if JoJo caught him off guard, there's a chance his luck would make the attack miss. It was capable of making a perfectly functional gun held by someone who also possesed supernatural luck jam when fired at him, and then unjam when he fired it moments later. It basically ensures that things are skewed in his favor.

EDIT 2: Huh. I must've missed the fact that he's been upgraded to Building+.

Xanxussama1010 · Jun 26, 2018

Hajime's Utimate Analysis should make him learn about Jonathan fighting style and his Hamon. He also should be realize that Hamon come from breathing technique. So he can predict about how Jonathan will move, disturb his breathing and beat him with skills like ultimate martial arts, swordman and even luck.

Luck also help him a lot here by make some of unexpect event to happen. For example, while Jonathan is charging Hamon. a dust suddenly spread, make Jonathan cough and give change for Hajime to finished him. His luck should also make Hajime survive from Jonathan first Hamon attack. And make him learn about Hamon from that attack.

Also Hajime is building leevel+ on AP, So he has Ap advantage here.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Yeah probably why i didnt mention speed at all. No but itd be invisible when being channeled. Unles he can see through the ground or some shit. This is where you're completely ignoring my point. Jonathan doesnt have to hit hajime. The hamon does and the hamon can be channeled through the ground or clifs or grass and plenty of objects. Hajime stands on the ground? Jonathan can channel hamon through the ground and effect him.

And dodge? Yeah sure maybe he can. But thats assuming jonathan uses one hamon charge and stands there doing nothing. While the previous gamon charge travels and moves . Litterally exists no reason why jonathan cant do more than one or spam. Or close a gap and depending on the location (Central Park. Meaning plenty of grass water metal and hamon conductable objects around ).

As far as jonathans durability goes a hamon forcefield would completely shunt any potential damage hajime would event jonathan with.

His attack missing is unlikely. Its not a object for example a bullet that outside factors could influence the trajectory. Hamon wont miss after being used excluding potential dodging although hamon does have a aoe effect and can move through the air albiet not a lot of distance .

The only weakness jonathan would have is hamon breathing which he can do even without breathing. As hamon energy can be stored. Explicitly why he could hamon want after being asphyxiated and having his throat destroyed. Any thing bar riping his lungs fir example what esidisi did or straight up choking him out but that wont prevent hamon the moment of.

Excluding the fact a mere dust wont make jonathan lose his breathing. Ya do realize the train for that is extremely hard and insane. Jonathan could event keep his breathing when having his jugular played around with by dio.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Also jonathan was mentioned by will to be one fifth of dio meaning make of that what ya will man .

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

Feats from fighting Dio don't factor into this though, since we're using Pre-Tarkus/Pre-Supreme Deep Pass Overdrive JoJo. Also, Izuru doesn't need to see into the ground. All he needs to see is the Hamon moving from JoJo's body into the ground to understand how the attack works, and then he jumps into the air to avoid it, since Hamon can't move very far through air. And again, precog means that Izuru can predict these attacks before JoJo even makes them, which gives him the ability to dodge basically all of JoJo's attacks. On top of that, all of this is presuming he doesn't Ultimate Impostor his Hamon techniques and use them against him.

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Izuru has several yearsof precognition, he should know how it works just by that

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

The quote is pretakus. Obviously seeing as WILL said the quote.

Precognition or not that doesnt guarantee he can dodge all the attacks . And ya do realize jonathan can emit hamon from his feet into the ground. Probably be wouldnt be the first option but he can do . Precognition only goes far enough .

How high can he jump. Best not be a few feet only or even a meter or so .

Maybe although seeing as only 1 from 10000 even have the ability to produce hamon and that shit takes training for even a fraction of what jonathan was able do . Often decades to even use hamon properly. He must first be capable of even doing hamon .

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Sure, but probability manipulation helps to make sure jogn uses the less effective way to do it.

He can throw people for several dozens of meters scaling from nekomaru, I would imagine he can also jump

Xanxussama1010 · Jun 26, 2018

Even precog can't make him dodge all attack. Hajime can still predict that how Jonathan will move. So he can just move before Jonathan can move.

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

Don't know how I missed the fact you said Will said it, whoops. And Izuru has Ultimate Analyst/Impostor. He can simply watch JoJo's breathing technique and replicate it himself. It's stated that anyone can produce Hamon, but only 1 in 10000 have the willpower and ability to actually use it. Analyst allows him to process massive amounts of data in no time whatsoever, and using his Ultimate Martial Artist incorporating it into his fighting style would be easy. From all the talents he has, Izuru basically has decades and decades of training and refinement, which are far beyond what JoJo has against him.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

What? Im pretty sure hajime cant do that from my experience with daganronpa. At least not the way youre thinking my man .

Yeah and would ya think straizo can leap more than four meters ?. No he cant (although joseph and a human stand user (rohan) have feats of leaping dozens of meters above even dio ). Fiction a thing and that wont translate exactly. Probably why ya need lifting feats for example dbz and punching feats because fiction .

Just_a_Random_Butler · Jun 26, 2018

Izuru has Ultimate Martial Artist and Ultimate Luck, gains the advantage in combat skills and as well as imitating Jonathan's techniques with Ultimate Impostor and gaining all the information about Jonathan and his techniques with the Ultimate Analyst.

Ultimate Analyst also gives him insane precognition, to the point that he can see and predict the future, which could be years in the future, probably which is also amplified by Ultimate Clairvoyant. The moment he looks at Jonathan, he virtually determines the personality, abilities, thoughts, and history of his foes with a mere glance, as well as weaknesses. You can say Jonathan holds the ap and durability advantage which can be countered by Ultimate Analyst, which he can also use to counter other stuff that Jonathan has in his pocket. Izuru's fighting skill is to the point where, he has effortlessly stomped Ikusaba with a simple backhand, a person that can fight hundred of Monokuma while being shot by mounted machine gun turrets.

Meanwhile, Jonathan also has little to no information about Izuru. Which means, Izuru's luck could also be unknown for him and that could be a problem, because his luck attacks in any way possibly it could, which is still hard even if Jonathan has knowledge of his luck, knowing how insane Izuru's luck can be and also going to mention his Ultimate Martial Artist, he can flawlessly utilize any number of martial arts at once, possibly to avoid creating a weakness and mixing offense and defense.

About Izuru's luck, let's say he attacks randomly, it can still hit his target even if he shoots at the opposite direction or even if he has no knowledge of his target's location at all, and it's because of Ultimate Luck. He has survived a destruction of a whole building before without being scratched at all as an Alter Ego, and he scales to Komaeda's luck, in which he has been shown to almost ruin Junko's plan, if it wasn't for Izuru. Also, between the fight of Owari and Nidai, Komaeda wasn't hit any of the debris and collateral damage due to his luck, continuously, despite being in their collateral range.

Just an addition, in Danganronpa V3 (interaction is non-canon, the powers and the talents/capabilities, however are not made up), it was shown and implied that Komaeda somehow managed to gain information about Oma's evil organizatio with his luck.

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Yeah it does translate, throwing and lifting do collerate directly. And the dozens of meters border on houndreds w ith nekomaru's feat.

And with verse equal, he should be able to use hamon

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Jonathan litterally ourskilled knights and a trained master within a week of training for the first time of his life despite the orevious having experience of literal decades worth directly from a precognition user with almost a century of experience . Excluding the fact assuming he can copy a supernatural style would be a bit if a assumption without a example .

Upon looking at the manga its vague for example will says only one of ten thousand gave the attitude but also he trained for decades before being capable of doing hamon . Jonathan being an explicit prodigy mentioned by will and the only example of normal humans doing hamon doesnt exist which the closest quote was that which is directly talking about merely breathing (humans breath by instinct while jonatha

needs ryhthm for a powerful hamon ).
On a different note jonathan would have class k strength (although still waiting for an evaluation for the calculation ) .

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

I don't see why he wouldn't be able to, considering how Ultimate Analyst, Impostor, and Martial Artist are known to function. Either way, once Izuru gets up close to JoJo, the fight is basically over because his AP beats JoJo's dura, and he knows exactly how to hit him to mess up his breathing. Even though JoJo would have the Hamon from before his breathing was cut off, he would only have so much left before Izuru finishes him off. Also, since this is Pre-Tarkus, he doesn't have any feats for mind control yet, and I will continue to assert that it is wildly OOC for JoJo to start the fight using it. And even if he can, it would likely be too late by the time he pulls it out.

EDIT: Also, Izuru has AP/Dura advantage. JoJo is Building, but Izuru is Building+.

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Jonathan litterally ourskilled knights and a trained master within a week of training for the first time of his life despite the orevious having experience of literal decades worth directly from a precognition user with almost a century of experience . Excluding the fact assuming he can copy a supernatural style would be a bit if a assumption without a example

Due to verse equal, it is not that incredible at all. And izuru can just predict and adaapt to jonhs style.

Upon looking at the manga its vague for example will says only one of ten thousand gave the attitude but also he trained for decades before being capable of doing hamo

Are you genuinly mentioning that something is hard to learn as a reason? With the dude that learned to outskill people who outskilled others with several dozens of years of experience while being bored?

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Ricsi-viragosi said:
Yeah it does translate, throwing and lifting do collerate directly. And the dozens of meters border on houndreds w ith nekomaru's feat.

And with verse equal, he should be able to use hamon

Thats not how verse equalization works . Theres nothing to be equalized .

Copying martial arts and copying a supernatural style of combat that can do a multitude of hax from the fact its a form of combat within the main verse would be comparable with copying a ki and the kamegame from dbz .

This bordering on a nlf. Do ya or any user gave a showing of him doing something comparable .

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Plus I'm pretty sure that probability manipulation would stop john from using hamon right away

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Thats not how verse equalization works . Theres nothing to be equalized

Yes it does. We assume that everybody has the basics of other verses. Even if I put naruto against a non magical verse tha they have chakra, we assume that everyone can see shinigami etc

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Timesmashaperil said:
I don't see why he wouldn't be able to, considering how Ultimate Analyst, Impostor, and Martial Artist are known to function. Either way, once Izuru gets up close to JoJo, the fight is basically over because his AP beats JoJo's dura, and he knows exactly how to hit him to mess up his breathing. Even though JoJo would have the Hamon from before his breathing was cut off, he would only have so much left before Izuru finishes him off. Also, since this is Pre-Tarkus, he doesn't have any feats for mind control yet, and I will continue to assert that it is wildly OOC for JoJo to start the fight using it. And even if he can, it would likely be too late by the time he pulls it out.

EDIT: Also, Izuru has AP/Dura advantage. JoJo is Building, but Izuru is Building+.

Youre forgetting jonathan can amp himself with hamon mate. And the fact hes one forth of dio .

And this has been widely debated before. Jonathan can do any ability hes shown with hamon as hamon is the same and all his powers he learned and done came from will.

Its ooc when fighting oponents he wants defeated. Hajime a human would be incapacitated before doing lethal force. Also gamon induces unconscious and organ failure on unprotected humans opposed to melting .

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Man, if only hajime had probability manipulation to make john use the other tactic...

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Ricsi-viragosi said:
Thats not how verse equalization works . Theres nothing to be equalized

Yes it does. We assume that everybody has the basics of other verses. Even if I put naruto against a non magical verse tha they have chakra, we assume that everyone can see shinigami etc

Actually no the wiki doesnt. Go read the equalization rules. The verse within question must have a comparable attribute.

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

For example, characters from other verses will be assumed to be capable of perceiving spiritual creatures such as Shinigamis from Bleach.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashio. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen. For example, characters from other verses will be assumed to be capable of perceiving spiritual creatures such as Shinigamis from Bleach.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.

Dont quote an fraction of the profile .

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

Yes, that doesn't counter my point, as several points there are not equalizations of energies. Even then, izuru having hamon is not even the point here. PLus he could just start singing to make john depressed.

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

I'm pretty sure that JoJo's AP already factors in Hamon, seeing that power amping is not listed anywhere on his profile. And the quote actually says that Dio is 5x 'our' energy, implying both JoJo's and Zeppeli's. And I know that he can use these abilities, I'm questioning if he would use these abilities. Izuru can start out with Ultimate Secret Agent to escape detection by conventional means, before wailing on JoJo before he has a chance to think about using Hamon for mind control. Precog and superior skill gives Izuru a major edge over JoJo, since he needs to hit Izuru to pull off his hax, while Izuru has already predicted his next five attacks and is preparing his counterattack.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

It does because theres literally nothing to eqalize . Hajime cant copy a supernatural ability fighting style or not with a lack of a feats or some form of equalization which low and behold hajime would have not point a or b .

Really? Ya think him atempting a form of song would be feasible mid combat when the slightest amount of hamon will fry his system ?.

TheJ-ManRequiem · Jun 26, 2018

It doesnt. At least not after january. Seeing as im the one who spruced the profile up. And at the time arigamy insisted hamon didnt amp which us accepted as false mostly now . (Also why would a amplification be factored into his base stats any way ).

Five times or ten would still be an advantage over hajime .

He probably wouldnt imediadtky but he would attempt an incap at first which would leave mind control. Body manipulation. Or ohko . Otherwise organ failure would be the default .

>WAILING.

Thats litery the best possible way jonathan would hamon hax on hajime . As shown with joseph hamon can be transferred upon contact with the user. Wailing on jonathan would have jonathan discharge hamon .

Ricsi-viragosi · Jun 26, 2018

He probably wouldnt imediadtky but he would attempt an incap at first which would leave mind control. Body manipulation. Or ohko . Otherwise organ failure would be the default

Do I need to explain what probability manipulation is?

Timesmashaperil · Jun 26, 2018

JoJo transfering Hamon when Izuru punches him implies that Izuru doesn't already know to immediately pull his fist away, or that JoJo can predict exactly when he gets hit by Izuru. JoJo simply doesn't have a reliable way to pull off his Hamon hax, as Izuru learns how it works and exploits all of its weaknesses before JoJo even has a chance to understand what's happening.

Jonathan Joestar vs. Hajime Hinata

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