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Kakashi vs Katakuri redux

tbh, although the ap seems to be the same (I feel like kakashi's ap is likely higher than may him out to be), kakashi wins in a stomp. like, he is way faster (reaction time wise. physical speed is hard to tell), has a has miles above katakuri's, and just him, has a high lvl precog, way smarter, more versatile, his susanoo's durability is likely way higher as well, more experienced. like, there are more than two ways for him to win definitely.
 
>Precog: Katakuri's is better.

>Speed: equalized.
 
On a serious note I'll be voting for Katakuri via Higher AP / Durability, even better and more versatile precog via Kenbunshoku Haki ( I.E Seeing several seconds into the future, presence detection, negative emotion sensing, aura sensing etc.) That elemental intangibility that Kakashi can't bypass other than Kamui which Katakuri would foresee, higher stamina and Danmaku.


Edit: Wait nvm, Kakashi is 6-B thought he scaled to Low 6-B my other points stand tho.
 
kakashi was able to see kaguya, sasuke, and Naruto to the fullest, and its active the whole time. katakuri needs some concentration to use his, and he can be caught by surprise much more easily than kakashi can (kakashi has reactions similar to obito, who used kamui when guy was behind him, and like, 3 inches away).. kakashi can also lighting which would likely affect katakuri cuz of its properties, which may or may not surpass his logia's natural abilities. and good old susanoo, if its anything like madara's susanoo (edo madara's susanoo was high 6-a), one hit on anywhere in kata's body, and he's dead.
 
Kenbunshoku Haki is essentially always active the whole time and him sensing Naruto and other's isn't very impressive. Katakuri only needs to remain calm, he doesn't need to focus that much, Hell Kenbunshoku Haki also gives you borderline instinctive reaction. Lightning isn't bypassing Elemental intangibility and his Susanoo isn't High 6-A.
 
Katakuri takes this with his precognition, range, stamina, etc. Kakashi is only 6B with his Susanoo and that isn't infinite. With his stamina, Katakuri could wait for it to run out and then hit him with his Donuts.
 
nope. he got hit by luffy many times- not like 20 times, but about 10 times is enough, and he was on guard the whole time, meaning that it can be bypassed at time, and it isn't always active. and he didn't sense them. he saw them. proportionally, kakashi seeing Naruto>>> any speed feat of any kind from katakuri or relating to katakuri. and yes, I never said he needed to focus much anyways.. and actually, electricity MIGHT actually surpass his logia thingy cuz of the way it works. energy isn't a physical thing that he can dodge, and he himself stated that he isn't really a logia. people think he is one cuz of how he plans where his body will turn into mocchi when being attacked, so yeah, he can be hit much more easily than u think. and I never said his susanoo was actually 6-a- all I said is that it likely is around that. kakashi's feats are all in his base form. he never used his susanoo in that fight, so we have nothing to measure besides for other susanoo's (madara's being the prime victim, since they both are perfect susanoo that have six paths chakra imbued into them).
 
Kakashi wins via hax. Really don't see how Katakuri is guarding again kamui especially since he's apart of space he will get harm. Susano'o as well plays a big part and even that has hax on it. Also that's one of the draw backs with Katakuri, he has to remain calm to do so. He cannot see the future all the time, not only this but it's only a few seconds he can do this. Not hours or anything. We don't see him spamming it anyways.
 
What do you mean? He always spams his Kenbunshoku Haki. That's the reason he was always considered unbeatable.
 
Luffy hit him since his Kenbunshoku was slowly getting to Katakuri's level. Unless you mean Snake-Man but Luffy was faster at that point. You'll only bypass his Kenbunshoku by making by being faster than him or taking him by surprise. And Naruto doesn't have Precog so that's moot. Lightning doesn't bypass his Devil Fruit, that's only superior elemental and that mainly refers to the Devil Fruit hierarchy. Katakuri can certainly dodge energy attacks who told you he couldn't? So then why is Kakashi 6-B? No offense but your confusing me.
 
Actually I can prove that. You know for a fact that only certain elements counter certain Logia fruits ( I.E Magu Magu no Mi >>> Mera Mera no Mi >> Hei Hei no mi.) And lol no. Kakashi definitely isn't outlasting Katakuri. Katakuri is superior to Ace who can fight for 5 day's straight while at a 2 times disadvantage against Jinbe. His Hax here gets countered by Katakuri's regen and his Kamui and Susanoo isn't indefinite.
 
Just because I was requested to, I'm going to have to mention this for the 10th time... Devil Fruits and Haki are not considered part of the Chi-troupe and are thus not altered to "make it fair" as some put it. Kakashi must bypass Katakuri's ability to regenerate or use an element that would effectively damage Katakuri, or at least incapacitate him.

Luffy uses Busoshoku Haki, which forces opponents with Elemental Intangibility to take form, and thus be struck by physical blows to their true bodies. To the dense people who can not read Katakuri vs Luffy properly, Katakuri was using Kenbunshoku Haki to predict Luffy's attacks and then changed the shape of his body to DODGE Luffy's Haki imbued strikes. Against someone who doesn't have such a nullifying power, Katakuri would not require the effort to do this, as Kakashi isn't going to be dealing damage with physical strikes, or attacks that can not bypass High-Mid Regen of the level that someone like Sabo has displayed (regenerating from just his legs).

Kakashi's AP advantage doesn't mean jack if he can't hurt Katakuri effectively, and he would require Water Style (or BFR w/ Kamui) to do anything serious.

Katakuri's Pre-cog lets him continuously look several seconds into the future. He can keep this ability up as long as he is in a calm mind-set.

Luffy could only continously land hits with Snake-Man because that form utilizes a form of HOMING attacks that gradually speed up the more it stretches. Homing attacks are a method of countering evasion. Not to mention he's basically faster than Katakuri to begin with.

@Lorenzo - you are scaling Kakashi to Madara because...?

Luffy only landed his FIRST strike on Katakuri when the latter was furious and thus lost the ability to use Kenbunshoku Haki momentarily. Luffy couldn't hit Katakuri anymore, even with Bound Man, because Katakuri calmed down and regained his pre-cog.

Later in the fight, Katakuri basically stabbed himself after Luffy's Kenbunshoku Haki got relatively close to his (albeit with intense levels of focus) and got hit with Snake-Man, which again, uses homing attacks and increases the speed of his attack the more it stretches.

With that said, I vote inconclusive. Kakashi just needs to BFR, but that's gonna be hard when Kata has pre-cog and previously mentioned feats.
 
@Knight - He just needs to land one, but if he could spam Kamui for hours, then I'd totally vote him anyways :P.
 
4th war kakashi used it 3 times without getting healed or any sort of amp, so that's his limit. with another ms, his limit likely goes up by twice as much (its stated that having both eyes can make the user whatever times more powerful). since he also has six paths chakra and some sage chakra, that would at least double again. so I (I MYSELF) believe that he could it use it at least 12 times or so. considering that he can make really good plans (with like, 4 or 5 layers and backups for each), he will likely land one of two. if he doenst kill him in the 1st kamui, im pretty sure the second one will do.
 
People dont know how to read or they dont realize that Genjutsu is legal.

Shaker
 
^Genjutsu not useful here against Kata,he will see this technique before Kakashi active it,and then he will just simply fight while close his eyes
 
Ryope said:
^Genjutsu not useful here against Kata,he will see this technique before Kakashi active it,and then he will just simply fight while close his eyes
Click to expand...
Le what? He wont be able to know that looking at Kakashi's eyes is the trigger, he has precog, not nigh-omniscience.
 
^ He don't need "nigh-omniscience".. he will understand by logic that if he suddenly see himself the future in some weird illusion right after Kakashi show him his suspicious unique red eye then it connected.
 
kakashi has versatility for sure here.

hmmm, id say that he could genjutsu, as knowiong that its coming wouldent stop it. but i dont really know, ill wait for further input. he could also bfr
 
Ryope said:
^ He don't need "nigh-omniscience".. he will understand by logic that if he suddenly see himself the future in some weird illusion right after Kakashi show him his suspicious unique red eye then it connected.
Click to expand...
Kakashi has 2 MS here, I dont see your point. And he wont be able to know what's an illusion with his limited precog, he can only see briefly into the future. He has no Almighty. Also in OP there is nothing similar to Sharingan.
 
i know, i said that knowing that an illusion is coming wouldent help him to know what it would be, or how to stop it
 
@PaChi2 The thing is that Kenbunshoku Haki users (proficient ones at least) have been shown to be able to avoid attacks they couldn't normally sense otherwise. They don't need their sight or hearing. Katakuri is one of the most advanced Kenbunshoku Haki users we've seen in One Piece thus far. Genjutsu is great and all, but if he can move then attacks won't be enough as he would avoid them. Also, I'm sure that he could use Conquerer's Haki as a method to avoid getting caught in a Genjutsu. And for arguments sake, let's say Kakashi actually manages to get him and hurt him in the Genjutsu. How would he put him down? Katakuri is far stronger than someone capable of fighting for 5 days and nights. He is comparable (or even stronger) than Luffy who took multiple fatal blows and kept standing up. This is after hours of fighting. My point is that Katakuri basically outlasts him. Chakra can be drained and Kakashi doesn't have the insanely large reserves that Naruto and Sasuke have. Kamui takes a lot out of him with each use and don't forget that he is only 6B with Suusanoo, which isn't unlimited. Katakuri could trap it with Mochi like he did Bege's Big Father or he could outlast it and take Kakashi down afterwards. Without Suusanoo, I don't see Kakashi taking too many hits from Katakuri and living. With his Donuts and Awakening, he might be able to land a hit on Kakashi, even while he is in Suusanoo. Kakashi's best bets would be Kamui, but Katakuri can always see that BFR coming and he also has his Jelly Beans which can pierce through people like bullets. Due to these reasons, I believe Katakuri would take this.
 
for the first,he wouldent know how it works, and by extension how to dodge it

its an nlf to say conqueror can stop that high level genjjutsu

and bfr after genjutsu
 
I cant count that as a valid vote.

Its not like I dont agree with it, its that you dont make sense and are pulling half of your argumentation from thin air.
 
Katakuri:0

Kakashi: 1

Incon: 3

If I skipped any vote, please, remind me, later.
 
ohhhhhhh so he actually counted my vote? surprising... but u know whats not surprising? geiko can save 15% or more on car insurance.
 
PaChi2 said:
I cant count that as a valid vote.
Its not like I dont agree with it, its that you dont make sense and are pulling half of your argumentation from thin air.
Click to expand...
Wait, do you mean mine? Basically, Katakuri wins with precog, range, and his stamina. How does that not make sense? Half of my argumentation from thin air? The only thing I said even close to that would be the Conquerer's Haki statement and I even added a scenario for if you didn't accept that reasoning. I was going to switch my vote to inconclusive, but I am generally curious as to what didn't make sense to you.
 
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