Asgore Dreemurr vs Sans

Old thread's old, so here's an updated version.

Asgore Dreemurr vs Sans

Rules:

Fight takes place in the Judgement Hall

To the death

Otherwise SBA

Sans wins because of KR and Hax. He can easily dodge Asgore's attacks and Asgore to our knowledge can't dodge at all. Stomp

DunkleSans628 said:

Sans wins because of KR and Hax. He can easily dodge Asgore's attacks and Asgore to our knowledge can't dodge at all. Stomp

Click to expand...

He dodged every one of Undyne's attacks during their training.

Asgore would win.

Asgore blatantly wins. People just love stripping down every humanizing characteristics from a well beloved character to turn them into a God mode/Messiah Mary Sue that they also want to turn into their personal boytoy. Asgore wins, deal with it or make a new AU. If you actually wanted to know why Sans is downright hopeless in any real fight with Asgore here is a short list of reasons:

_ Asgore can fire hundreds of fireballs in a neverending barrack of attack in a single turn. Sans can dodge 22 times before he's tired. One single hit and he dies.

_ Oh what's that you say? Sans can dodge more this time because last time he had to attack for 10 straight minutes? Ok how about 44 times? 88 times? Gosh I hope Asgore doesn't need to fight for more than 5 turns with this guy because he's gonna get his cape ruined.

_ Asgore is a well trained fighter with access to the best personal fighting coaches the monster world has to offer. He mentored and trained Undyne, the freaking boulder punching captain of the royal guard. Sans has exactly zero prior fighting experience that we know of.

_ Asgore has 3000 HP. If Chara/Frisk had 3000 HP they would litterally be golden. As in, they would litterally only need to press jump once in a while and by the end of the fight they would still have at least 1000 HP left.

_ Asgore can eat something midfight to replenish his health. Sans can't. If he gets hit once that's it for him.

Duy9161 said:

Asgore blatantly wins. People just love stripping down every humanizing characteristics from a well beloved character to turn them into a God mode/Messiah Mary Sue that they also want to turn into their personal boytoy. Asgore wins, deal with it or make a new AU. If you actually wanted to know why Sans is downright hopeless in any real fight with Asgore here is a short list of reasons:
_ Asgore can fire hundreds of fireballs in a neverending barrack of attack in a single turn. Sans can dodge 22 times before he's tired. One single hit and he dies.

_ Oh what's that you say? Sans can dodge more this time because last time he had to attack for 10 straight minutes? Ok how about 44 times? 88 times? Gosh I hope Asgore doesn't need to fight for more than 5 turns with this guy because he's gonna get his cape ruined.

_ Asgore is a well trained fighter with access to the best personal fighting coaches the monster world has to offer. He mentored and trained Undyne, the freaking boulder punching captain of the royal guard. Sans has exactly zero prior fighting experience that we know of.

_ Asgore has 3000 HP. If Chara/Frisk had 3000 HP they would litterally be golden. As in, they would litterally only need to press jump once in a while and by the end of the fight they would still have at least 1000 HP left.

_ Asgore can eat something midfight to replenish his health. Sans can't. If he gets hit once that's it for him.

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I see a few fair points here, but here's a question. Undyne went god mode and became insanely strong, combined with her with combat experience she is an incredibly formidable foe. She is much more powerful than Asgore. At this point, her reaction time must be through the roof. Then why on Earth can't she dodge your attacks. Your not your strongest yet which means you probably don't attack as fast as you do in the Sans fight. Asgore can dodge Undyne's attack while she's significantly weaker than she is when she fights you, such a feat must be astronomically easier than dodging the players attacks. So comparing dodging relatively slow fireballs to the easily one of the strongest fastest characters in the game's attacks.

Also, you seem to ignore his hax. Here's a thread that caculates the amount of monsters in the Underground.

https://aminoapps.com/c/undertale/p...e-underground/1jJS_6uzRPVXvleDXblrbmMvKbeaXgq

Bare minimum Asgore killed 1 human, and because one human soul is worth the same as every monster soul in the underground, we can see here that he got (This is being extremely leniant) 50,000 monsters worth of exp. That's exponentially more exp than you've obtained which means KR would do exponentially more damage. According to the Undertale wiki you have to kill about 100 monsters to meet the requirments of a genocide route. (Excluding Sans)

http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Genocide_Route

So let's go with a rough estimate and say that because you killed a few boss monsters, you killed approximately 400 regular monsters. 50,000/400 = 125. He's killed 125 times more people than you so KR would be at least a few times more effective.

Lastly, Sans was only beaten through hax. You literally couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Asgore hasn't been shown to have hax, so even though Asgore wouln't put Sans in that situation, if he did, he couldn't finish him off. Sans wins

Lastly, Sans was only beaten through hax. You literally couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Asgore hasn't been shown to have hax, so even though Asgore wouln't put Sans in that situation, if he did, he couldn't finish him off. Sans wins

This is called a draw.

Which is also impossible.

Charisk killed Sans by attacking twice in a turn. Asgore can shoot fireballs, lots of them, in one turn.

I see a few fair points here, but here's a question. Undyne went god mode and became insanely strong, combined with her with combat experience she is an incredibly formidable foe. She is much more powerful than Asgore. At this point, her reaction time must be through the roof. Then why on Earth can't she dodge your attacks. Your not your strongest yet which means you probably don't attack as fast as you do in the Sans fight. Asgore can dodge Undyne's attack while she's significantly weaker than she is when she fights you, such a feat must be astronomically easier than dodging the players attacks. So comparing dodging relatively slow fireballs to the easily one of the strongest fastest characters in the game's attacks.

You wrote all of this while you could have stopped for a minute and ask this question: "Was it likely that Undyne, with her personality, in this circumstance, in this context, would have dodged?" No. Because Undyne a) needed to attack faster and harder than ever before, b) was strong enough that she could stand there getting hit and tanking for long enough to kill you (for good, because obviously Undyne didn't know you could reset). And that's without asking ourselves "Just where the hell was she gonna dodge to?" You know, because she was a hulking 6 ft 2 person in a full metal plate armor and they were fighting on one of these things?:




Is she gonna jump back? Let the crazed human mass murderer gain ground? And then potentially leaving them space to run away from her into hotland and into the laboratory? Because that's the evacuation center and every person who dies in there will be her personal responsibility.

Bare minimum Asgore killed 1 human, and because one human soul is worth the same as every monster soul in the underground, we can see here that he got (This is being extremely leniant) 50,000 monsters worth of exp. That's exponentially more exp than you've obtained which means KR would do exponentially more damage. According to the Undertale wiki you have to kill about 100 monsters to meet the requirments of a genocide route. (Excluding Sans)

I really love how you reduced the value of 50,000 people's lives to only worth one other person, just because the other person is human. Let me just remind everyone what LOVE and EXP means:

What's EXP? It's an acronym. It stands for "execution points." A way of quantifying the pain you have inflicted on others. When you kill someone, your EXP increases.

I like the implication that when you brutally murder 50,000 people the pain they feel is less than that if you kill one other person, because that one person's soul is more special.

When you have enough EXP, your LOVE increases. LOVE, too, is an acronym. It stands for "Level of Violence." A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others.

I really like the implication that killing 49,999 people would make you feel less than if you killed just ONE person of the other race. Because monster lives are worth less than garbage.

I especially love, looooove the way you have taken to heart Toby Fox's message about Love and Humanity that he tried through his heart to convey with his game. Because according to you, he's a glib hypocrite.

Duy9161 said:

Lastly, Sans was only beaten through hax. You literally couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Asgore hasn't been shown to have hax, so even though Asgore wouln't put Sans in that situation, if he did, he couldn't finish him off. Sans wins

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This is called a draw.
Which is also impossible.

Charisk killed Sans by attacking twice in a turn. Asgore can shoot fireballs, lots of them, in one turn.


I see a few fair points here, but here's a question. Undyne went god mode and became insanely strong, combined with her with combat experience she is an incredibly formidable foe. She is much more powerful than Asgore. At this point, her reaction time must be through the roof. Then why on Earth can't she dodge your attacks. Your not your strongest yet which means you probably don't attack as fast as you do in the Sans fight. Asgore can dodge Undyne's attack while she's significantly weaker than she is when she fights you, such a feat must be astronomically easier than dodging the players attacks. So comparing dodging relatively slow fireballs to the easily one of the strongest fastest characters in the game's attacks.

You wrote all of this while you could have stopped for a minute and ask this question: "Was it likely that Undyne, with her personality, in this circumstance, in this context, would have dodged?"
No. Because Undyne a) needed to attack faster and harder than ever before, b) was strong enough that she could stand there getting hit and tanking for long enough to kill you (for good, because obviously Undyne didn't know you could reset). And that's without asking ourselves "Just where the hell was she gonna dodge to?" You know, because she was a hulking 6 ft 2 person in a full metal plate armor and they were fighting on one of these things?:




Is she gonna jump back? Let the crazed human mass murderer gain ground? And then potentially leaving them space to run away from her into hotland and into the laboratory? Because that's the evacuation center and every person who dies in there will be her personal responsibility.


Bare minimum Asgore killed 1 human, and because one human soul is worth the same as every monster soul in the underground, we can see here that he got (This is being extremely leniant) 50,000 monsters worth of exp. That's exponentially more exp than you've obtained which means KR would do exponentially more damage. According to the Undertale wiki you have to kill about 100 monsters to meet the requirments of a genocide route. (Excluding Sans)

I really love how you reduced the value of 50,000 people's lives to only worth one other person, just because the other person is human.
Let me just remind everyone what LOVE and EXP means:


What's EXP? It's an acronym. It stands for "execution points." A way of quantifying the pain you have inflicted on others. When you kill someone, your EXP increases.

I like the implication that when you brutally murder 50,000 people the pain they feel is less than that if you kill one other person, because that one person's soul is more special.


When you have enough EXP, your LOVE increases. LOVE, too, is an acronym. It stands for "Level of Violence." A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others.

I really like the implication that killing 49,999 people would make you feel less than if you killed just ONE person of the other race. Because monster lives are worth less than garbage.
I especially love, looooove the way you have taken to heart Toby Fox's message about Love and Humanity that he tried through his heart to convey with his game. Because according to you, he's a glib hypocrite.

Dude,i'm your Fan now.

Duy9161 said:

Lastly, Sans was only beaten through hax. You literally couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Asgore hasn't been shown to have hax, so even though Asgore wouln't put Sans in that situation, if he did, he couldn't finish him off. Sans wins

Click to expand...

This is called a draw.
Which is also impossible.

Charisk killed Sans by attacking twice in a turn. Asgore can shoot fireballs, lots of them, in one turn.


I see a few fair points here, but here's a question. Undyne went god mode and became insanely strong, combined with her with combat experience she is an incredibly formidable foe. She is much more powerful than Asgore. At this point, her reaction time must be through the roof. Then why on Earth can't she dodge your attacks. Your not your strongest yet which means you probably don't attack as fast as you do in the Sans fight. Asgore can dodge Undyne's attack while she's significantly weaker than she is when she fights you, such a feat must be astronomically easier than dodging the players attacks. So comparing dodging relatively slow fireballs to the easily one of the strongest fastest characters in the game's attacks.

You wrote all of this while you could have stopped for a minute and ask this question: "Was it likely that Undyne, with her personality, in this circumstance, in this context, would have dodged?"
No. Because Undyne a) needed to attack faster and harder than ever before, b) was strong enough that she could stand there getting hit and tanking for long enough to kill you (for good, because obviously Undyne didn't know you could reset). And that's without asking ourselves "Just where the hell was she gonna dodge to?" You know, because she was a hulking 6 ft 2 person in a full metal plate armor and they were fighting on one of these things?:




Is she gonna jump back? Let the crazed human mass murderer gain ground? And then potentially leaving them space to run away from her into hotland and into the laboratory? Because that's the evacuation center and every person who dies in there will be her personal responsibility.


Bare minimum Asgore killed 1 human, and because one human soul is worth the same as every monster soul in the underground, we can see here that he got (This is being extremely leniant) 50,000 monsters worth of exp. That's exponentially more exp than you've obtained which means KR would do exponentially more damage. According to the Undertale wiki you have to kill about 100 monsters to meet the requirments of a genocide route. (Excluding Sans)

I really love how you reduced the value of 50,000 people's lives to only worth one other person, just because the other person is human.
Let me just remind everyone what LOVE and EXP means:


What's EXP? It's an acronym. It stands for "execution points." A way of quantifying the pain you have inflicted on others. When you kill someone, your EXP increases.

I like the implication that when you brutally murder 50,000 people the pain they feel is less than that if you kill one other person, because that one person's soul is more special.


When you have enough EXP, your LOVE increases. LOVE, too, is an acronym. It stands for "Level of Violence." A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others.

I really like the implication that killing 49,999 people would make you feel less than if you killed just ONE person of the other race. Because monster lives are worth less than garbage.
I especially love, looooove the way you have taken to heart Toby Fox's message about Love and Humanity that he tried through his heart to convey with his game. Because according to you, he's a glib hypocrite.

You refutation to dodging is rather weak. Sans dodges your attacks by moving to the left by maybe a metre. Undyne is a very good fighter, and no matter how dedicated you are to hurting someone, everyone has the basic impulse of not wanting to get hurt. Not only that, Undyne isn't the only competent fighter in the Underground. There is the rest of the Royal Guard and Asgore himself. Why don't any of them dodge then? They seem like competent fighters, and they should have the impulse to not get hurt. They don't move a metre out of the way of direct harm. Odd, maybe it's not as easy as you think.

Also, on my previous KR point, you're point is fair, and I'll concede that.

The difference between dodging a monster's attack and the player's attack is still massive. When I played the game, Asgore was rather easy to dodge, so the player is capable of easily dodging Asgore's attacks. Sans is definitely much faster than the player, so dodging Asgore's attacks would be insanely easy.

Lastly I don't quite understand your last paragraph. Regardless, I still believe Sans wins. Asgore's attacks obviously aren't the same as Frisk/Chara's, and they shouldn't be measured as the same.

mygod, there are so many game mechanics misinterpretations in here...

sans can dodge more than one attack, as shown by your gun, the fact that it doesent look so is because its a 2d game, unless you belive pokemon dont move during fights?

KARMA has nothing to do with LV, nor was it ever said to have anything to do with it at all.

sans also blitzes here pretty easly, and monster soul<human soul

and hp is a game mechanic, so dont you bring it up

You refutation to dodging is rather weak. Sans dodges your attacks by moving to the left by maybe a metre.

Look at this picture here:




I can't see for the life of me how you can think that there was enough space for Undyne to even sidestep, let alone a whole meter.

That's not even going into how absurd the whole "her reaction time must be through the roof" is. Kindly explain what part of the game even so much as hinted at that?

The difference between dodging a monster's attack and the player's attack is still massive. When I played the game, Asgore was rather easy to dodge, so the player is capable of easily dodging Asgore's attacks. Sans is definitely much faster than the player, so dodging Asgore's attacks would be insanely easy.

Apples to oranges. Asgore was holding back. There was plenty of signs of that in the game. Go replay the game if you have to.

Lastly I don't quite understand your last paragraph.

To be frank I haven't seen anything indicating that you could.

mygod, there are so many game mechanics misinterpretations in here...

sans can dodge more than one attack, as shown by your gun, the fact that it doesent look so is because its a 2d game, unless you belive pokemon dont move during fights?

Explain to us what pokemon have to do with any of this. Please. People can't read your mind.

KARMA has nothing to do with LV, nor was it ever said to have anything to do with it at all.

No? Karma doesn't have anything to do with karmic retribution? It doesn't have anything to do with the wrong you've done to other people? Strange, because I thought that was what it said in the dictionary.

No, "KARMA" doesn't need to react to LV. But here's the fact: Asgore has killed and caused far, far less suffering than the player has at the end of the genocide route. If that doesn't make a difference to KARMA, then it won't be named KARMA. It is that simple.

and monster soul<human soul

Yes. And human souls are weaker against magical attacks than monster souls. I don't think Aaron's flying beads of sweat and Woshua's cleaning is supposed to be deadly to anyone but humans.

and hp is a game mechanic, so dont you bring it up

If you're tired of arguing then you can go do something else with your time.

I can't see for the life of me how you can think that there was enough space for Undyne to even sidestep, let alone a whole meter.

Sure, maybe where Uydne was it wouldn't allow for dodging. Bad example, my bad. Then explain why no other monsters in the Underground, many of which are competent fighters, didn't dodge at all. Asgore had space to dodge for sure, as did a vast majority if not all of the other monsters.

The difference between dodging a monster's attack and the player's attack is still massive. When I played the game, Asgore was rather easy to dodge, so the player is capable of easily dodging Asgore's attacks. Sans is definitely much faster than the player, so dodging Asgore's attacks would be insanely easy. Apples to oranges. Asgore was holding back. There was plenty of signs of that in the game. Go replay the game if you have to.

There is an assumption here that Asgore was holding back enough to the point where he would be able to kill Sans. I remeber the boss fight and he was obviously holding back, to what extent, no one has the right to assume.

and monster soul<human soul Yes. And human souls are weaker against magical attacks than monster souls. I don't think Aaron's flying beads of sweat and Woshua's cleaning is supposed to be deadly to anyone but humans.

So you make the claim that humans are weaker to monster attacks and your evicence is that you "think" not threatning looking attacks only do damage to human. Not very substantive evidence to me.

Lastly I don't quite understand your last paragraph. To be frank I haven't seen anything indicating that you could.

Thanks

Sure, maybe where Uydne was it wouldn't allow for dodging. Bad example, my bad. Then explain why no other monsters in the Underground, many of which are competent fighters, didn't dodge at all. Asgore had space to dodge for sure, as did a vast majority if not all of the other monsters.

The vast majority of the monsters don't matter. The vast majority of the monsters including the other royal guard members aren't even remotely in the same league as Asgore.

Undyne is too extra to even consider dodging (what kind of person lifts a boulder in the middle of a fight just to show off?). Getting hit bad enough by you to kill her in the Pacifist run is the last thing Undyne would have expected. Hell, even after she started to turn into dust Undyne still couldn't believe that she was about to die and still tried to fight.

Undyne after she turned into her Undying state might have dodged, but we just went through that.

There is an assumption here that Asgore was holding back enough to the point where he would be able to kill Sans. I remeber the boss fight and he was obviously holding back, to what extent, no one has the right to assume.

And there is an assumption here that Asgore wasn't holding back much at all. Which is obviously ridiculous. Asgore was both suicidal and depressed (read the wiki page on what happens after the fight in every routes) and barely holding back his reluctance to fight you, a child barely 4 feet tall, to the death.

So you make the claim that humans are weaker to monster attacks and your evicence is that you "think" not threatning looking attacks only do damage to human. Not very substantive evidence to me.

The seahorse sweats and the little droplets of Woshua bathwater weren't attacks. They were how monsters express themselves. Just like how the snowpoff dog in metal armor wasn't trying to kill you, he was just being playful and only accidentally killed you because humans literally can't handle an excited magical dog.

Let's take another example. Gyftrot wasn't trying to kill you, because that would be absurd. He was mistaking you for one of the monster kids around the village who kept pestering him. Those flying present boxes were meant to shoo you away, not killing you after a few hits in the face. If those were actually deadly, he could be charged with manslaughter or whatever they have in monster court.

And I don't "think" I've said those attacks won't damage monsters. Obviously the present boxes have to hurt enough to shoo away kids, similar to how people throw la chanclas at naughty children. It's just that even the monster chanclas are deadly to humans.

Just ignore these Sans's Fanboys.

MettatonFabulous said:

Just ignore these Sans's Fanboys.

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(Immensely faster than Chara/Frisk, who was able to dodge rays of sunlight and who was superior to Napstablook. Should be one of, if not the, fastest non-Immeasurable characters in the game.


sans blitzes, the end

Ricsi-viragosi said:

MettatonFabulous said:

Just ignore these Sans's Fanboys.

Click to expand...

(Immensely faster than Chara/Frisk, who was able to dodge rays of sunlight and who was superior to Napstablook. Should be one of, if not the, fastest non-Immeasurable characters in the game.


sans blitzes, the end

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No,he isn't fast,and he is the WEAKER character of the Game.Stupid Fanboy,EVERYONE is stronger than Sans.

1st streinght=/=speed

2nd make a crt, if not you will be reported for calling peapole fanboys for listening to the vs wiki.

@MettatonFabulous: Don't get all worked up over nothing. Some people just live in an alternate reality. Just let them pretend.

Duy9161 said:

@MettatonFabulous: Don't get all worked up over nothing. Some people just live in an alternate reality. Just let them pretend.

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again, if youll ignore the wikis direct quetes than leave

What quotes? And are you telling me to leave? I'm sorry but I can't understand your incoherent posts, so I'll just ignore them from now on.

Ricsi-viragosi said:

(Immensely faster than Chara/Frisk, who was able to dodge rays of sunlight and who was superior to Napstablook. Should be one of, if not the, fastest non-Immeasurable characters in the game.


sans blitzes, the end

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what is hard to understand from this Duy?

Nothing. There's nothing hard to understand because it demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of the game, the characters or the real world, but instead is just some indecipherable babbling.

1: What is this sunlight and which fight is it in?

2: What does the part about Napstablook even means?

then make a crt, until than you are ignoring facts stated on theire pages and ypure votes are non valid

1 knight knight

2 he saw light in his door and went to close the window (a few meters away) before it light reached sayed window

Sans fra

1: That isn't sunlight rays. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3Fr5IipoA

2: The light was patiently knocking at the door, because it was a polite magical light. It was waiting for a response but since Napstablook closed the blinds it didn't bother.

How does a light knock on the door? I don't know. No one really cares enough to ask Toby. Go ask him youself.

first, word of god isnt used, second MAKE A CRT

What word of god? That's the entire dialogue at the end of the pacifist route.

And I'm not gonna make a CRT until I have some free time. But please make one yourself if you feel that you're tired of whatever bunk there was in it.

yeah, its allmost like sans is sub relativistic, becauise of being above frisk who dodged lightning, and the word of god was for the fact that even if he told me, it couldent be used

Don't talk to yourself. It's unsettling.

Duy9161 said:

Don't talk to yourself. It's unsettling.

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i wasent talking to myself, that was an attempt mock/sarcastic tone. sans is above frisk by more than asgore, the end, you dont like, you make a crt, until then , youre argument is invalid

The sunlight thing was added without authorization, it was already deemed that it isn't real long ago. (When undertale chars were relativistic+)

Anonimoe7875 said:

The sunlight thing was added without authorization, it was already deemed that it isn't real long ago. (When undertale chars were relativistic+)

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that doesent change the fact that the pages pretty much state asgore < sans in speed

Yes obviously. And that doesn't change anything because every single VS battle in this board already operate on the assumption that Asgore is slower than Sans in terms of speed but then still concluded that Asgore would win.

Asgore,and by extension,everyone,is stronger than Sans,deal with it or leave with your Shrek image.

i fail to see why would hes weaker soul take the dammage that frisk couldent, with speed disatvatege , and the enemy teleporting around

MettatonFabulous said:

Asgore,and by extension,everyone,is stronger than Sans,deal with it or leave with your Shrek image.

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wow, its almost like streinght=/=hax isnt a thing

Oh honey you can think what ever you think. Just don't ever expect other people to change their minds and think like you with that attitude and that grammar. Valuable life lesson.

yeah, most peapole would try to refute someones argument in a situation like this, but not you

Darling, you sound like someone who's still young. Take it from someone more experienced and older than you: They usually don't. Now walk away when you still have some face left.

Everyone else is free to continue this thread. I'll come back when someone worth talking to is here.

first, please stop trying to give advice to dsomeone you dont know because they seem like something from a conversation about two fictional characters fighting, second, the fact that most peapole dont argue for why a fictional character doesent win matters how here? i do not belive you understad how debating works if you have no intention to protect youre argument