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Alternate Canon Profiles / Keys.

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Matthew_Schroeder

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I'll cut it right to the chase. There's been a lot of controversy lately related to Yu-Gi-Oh profiles and whatnot, and how the original manga is practically featless and all the feats that were previously used and calculated come from the anime.

Some people insist that you should 100% use only the manga in all circumstances and ignore other sources and adaptations.

Others, like myself, disagree. I believe that using things such as adaptations are completely fine, depending on the series. It tends to go with how the series differ. If it's just the original manga but with a filler episode here and there to pad things out, then I don't think it should be allowed. This is how it is with the HST anime and is a big reason why people think like this for everything.

But for big multi-media franchises where installments have multiple versions, multiple continuities, etc. and the differences are bigger, either in story (Such as going different paths and different endings), or in power (Like, the original story caps at 7-C but the adaptation has planet level and higher), it is completely fine.

Not only for the sake of completionism, as the differences in these cases are notable enough to reflect on the profiles, and because this is a Wiki where we analyze and chart the powers of charaters, and there's no reason to ignore alternate versions which are so different.

A lot of the time people like to use the slipery slope argument, to say that if a profile or Key for one alternate version of one character, people will want profiles and keys for all versions. This is obviously wrong. Not only does not anyone want this (Nobody wants a Xenoverse Yamcha profile), but in most of the cases these alternate canons and adaptations aren't notable or develop or different enough to warrant their own keys profiles.

And even then, we have Verses which account for literally every single Version of the story in all media. Big credit for the people behind the Pokémon and Digimon profiles for managing that. They use feats from all sources and divide it into Keys, and it is not a mess. It is manageable, it can be done without leading to disaster.

So really, I see no valid, legitimate reason to not do this, and strikes me as a purism that was developed through old HST / Dragon Ball discussions back in the day, where people would bring up feats that would then be dismissed outright as "Non-canon filler".

Oh, and touching the elephant in the room: Toeiland Dragon Ball. They are already accounted for with the GT Profiles, sorta. But if people really want them, I have no problem if the Dragon Ball GT Verse page is changed into a "Dragon Ball Z (Toei)" Verse page, and that Keys for the Toei versions of the Z Sagas are added to the GT Goku and Vegeta profiles. Would be quite fun, actually. Dwarf Star level Vegeta's finger and King Vegeta handswipe, Freeza's supernova being a literal supernova, Multi-Solar System level+ Buu, etc.

A lot of the arguments against making Keys for Anime versions of certain verses seem to be that Toei Dragon Ball doesn't have it. So you know what, knock yourself out.

But yeah. I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.

And before someone comments "But our Alternative Canon Rules". Well, I am literally the person who made them in the first place per Antvasima's request, and not only do I find them increasingly restrictive and obtuse, but most people not only don't agree with them but also don't follow them.
 
I feel like it should be different profiles as to avoid confusion, or like an entirely different tabber, so that people don't assume you can use those in the same way.
 
About that last part, Ever and I already organized a profile (kinda) for Toei Goku a whileee back. If keys are allowed, it won't take much effort.
 
Aeyu said:
I feel like it should be different profiles as to avoid confusion, or like an entirely different tabber, so that people don't assume you can use those in the same way.
Yeah. Either Alternate profiles or Keys, though I find Keys easier honestly. It's how Digimon does it and they have some of the absolute best profiles in the entire wiki.
 
I legit have no issue with this. Not only would this give the site some new material to work with, it also clear up the hassle of people going back and forth with "Sorry but that's not canon, so we can't use it".

110% Support.
 
We be doing this again?

I'd rather not have keys when we deal with already big profiles. Because we're bound to end up with several keys for each incarnation and stuff.
 
I have seen this discussion NUMEROUS times. I agree with Matt, and will hardly change my mind.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
We be doing this again?
I'd rather not have keys when we deal with already big profiles. Because we're bound to end up with several keys for each incarnation and stuff.
That depends. There's Digimon profiles with like 9 keys already. Yu-Gi-Oh cards as far as I know would literally only have two keys.
 
I say case by case basis. If a profile is already crowded, make a new one for the alternate canon version. If it's not, just add it to their key or make a key if they don't have one.
 
I think case by case is reasonable, but I think that there should be separate profiles as to avoid confusion. Many people make assumptions as to what's canon and what's not and including non-canon in with canon profiles would cause far too much confusion.
 
Yeah but I mean like Goku. Or most Shonen profiles actually. When they have like keys for each arc, adding another continuity amidst of all those arc keys would just be messy. Stuff with a few keys for each continuity is alright.
 
Yeah, in those cases profiles. Case by case is best like in every single case. Suprise surprise
 
My main problem here is that we need to consider outliers, even with Filler or non-canon profiles, If not you can have Low 2-C begining of GT Goku.

Not because its a filler It means that It can have any feat It wants, thats why the Toiverse (altought important) can be a huge pain in the ass.
 
I agree with Matt both in the post and in the comment as in things should be analysed case-by-case.
 
Aeyu said:
I think case by case is reasonable, but I think that there should be separate profiles as to avoid confusion. Many people make assumptions as to what's canon and what's not and including non-canon in with canon profiles would cause far too much confusion.
This, essentially.
 
I definitely agree as well on basically everything being said

(Although I'd be down with some Supervillain Yamcha matchups...)
 
Should probably be split pages if the pages already have a few keys, but that's just my opinion.
 
Xenoverse Yamcha profile is the same as a canon Yamcha profile. This comes from someone who has 100% trophies in both games. Since nothing changes in stats or abilities, your example of Yamcha is wrong. Goku would have been a better example.
 
So then they should only be if the changes are notable enough. Not ALL profiles need their non-canon counterparts, and especially not another key for them. I'm always against cluttered profiles.
 
KarmodF said:
My main problem here is that we need to consider outliers, even with Filler or non-canon profiles, If not you can have Low 2-C begining of GT Goku.
Not because its a filler It means that It can have any feat It wants, thats why the Toiverse (altought important) can be a huge pain in the ass.
100% agree. This is why stuff like "Composite Goku from everything" is stupid. As it's just an excuse to use every feat ever regardless of outliers.
 
...I've personally never had an issue with alternate versions of characters getting their own profiles, if they're notably distinct from the main version of the character in question.
 
I have difficulty thinking of reason to oppose this. However, I value thoroughness, & if there's fallacy to be found, I feel we should make sure there's not any potential issues we may be overlooking.

I'd say I support this until given reasonable 'cause to do otherwise. If there is reason to oppose this, it should be considered, I feel.
 
Seems like no one knows what "canon" anymore. Look at Vocaloid for example. No one know what is canon for Vocaloid, yet we have multiple pages for them. What's up with that?
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
AppleLord said:
Since nothing changes in stats or abilities, your example of Yamcha is wrong.
Can't forget SuperVillain Yamcha, tho. Dude has higher stats than Golden Frieza.
Not canon to Xenoverse 2 storyline. Neither are the parallelal quests.
 
would this apply to Boruto aswell, it's two different Mediums that "Might" Diverge but they have both been stated repeatedly to be canon.

 
Also does this mean i could make my Mecha Naruto Profile >_> which was deleted on the basis that it was video game character back in 2016
 
Well, I personally think that our alternative canon profiles page is sufficient for our purposes, allows quite a bit, and simply ensures that we do not get swarmed by obscure and almost exactly identical alternative versions of characters.

Do we really need a page for every 1-appearance irrelevant "What If?" version of Wolverine for example? In addition, it would usually be hard to scale them properly, given that they have no explicit histories of feats to draw upon, rather than simply assuming the same power levels as the originals.

However, if this goes through, I would much prefer additional profiles rather than keys, in order to avoid confusion.
 
Obviously not, Ant. The page is fine. The problem that was being caused was literally a word. An "And" became a "or".
 
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