Yu (The Boxer) vs Kiichi Miyazawa [3-5-0]

[Nikoandretti]

Random Encounter
Yu AP: 0.015 Tons or 62.8 Megajoules
Kiichi AP: 9.01 Megajoules
Location: Training Gym
Post-Santorino key
Ryuu wo Tsugu Otoko key
Speed is equal
Starting Distance: 3 meters

Yu: @Zefra3011, @azontr , @XxZetsuxX

Kiichi: @Nikoandretti, @Armorchompy , @Tllmbrg, @Robo432343 , @Dinozxd

Inconclusive:

 

[Nikoandretti]

I’ll wait for The boxer fans before giving my reasoning for Kiibo

 

[Zefra3011]

I’ll wait for The boxer fans before giving my reasoning for Kiibo

Just so you know, there is a CRT that got accepted for The Boxer but I havent add the changes yet, not that it gives Yu huge upgrades, but still; I'll probably add them in some hours cause im a bit busy.

 

[Nikoandretti]

Just so you know, there is a CRT that got accepted for The Boxer but I havent add the changes yet, not that it gives Yu huge upgrades, but still; I'll probably add them in some hours cause im a bit busy.

Okay no problem.

 

[Zefra3011]

Done.

I have zero knowledge about the other dude.

What exactly can he do against Yu's slow motion perception and AnPr?

 

[Nikoandretti]

Done.

I have zero knowledge about the other dude.

What exactly can he do against Yu's slow motion perception and AnPr?

How does his slowed perception work? Because Kiichi beat a fighting cyborg clone named Garcia 28 that has that. He could perceive rain drops in slow motion in the middle of combat .. I think other characters have this ability too

For AnPr….
Kiibo can enter a state at any moment where it is said that:
“Predicting Kiibo's actions while he is fighting in an unconscious state is thought to be impossible, even by people who can normally figure out entire fights ahead of time” which makes his resistance to AnPr in this state OP.

 

[Zefra3011]

How does his slowed perception work? Because Kiichi beat a fighting cyborg clone named Garcia 28 that has that. He could perceive rain drops in slow motion in the middle of combat .. I think other characters have this ability too

So, you equalized speed right? it means their normal speed it's the same so both move at X speed, Yu has a specific technique called monster stance which boost his speed to the point he can blitz characters who would see Yu's attack in slow motion, so it's a huge boost above X; Yu's reaction is so OP he see this speed in slow motion, so saying he would see speed X as frozen (where they scale in this fight) wouldn't be much wrong.

about how it works... it's just him seeing everything slowed down, as simple as that.

For AnPr….
Kiibo can enter a state at any moment where it is said that:
“Predicting Kiibo's actions while he is fighting in an unconscious state is thought to be impossible, even by people who can normally figure out entire fights ahead of time” which makes his resistance to AnPr in this state OP.

Yu's AnPr is based on micromovements, to explain it I'll use a punch as example, to punch you do various steps like: 1) step forward > move your shoulder in front of you > stretch your arm > complete the punch; being able to recognize the entire movement by a previous movement is micromovement AnPr. Yu would be able, in this case, to know your are going for a punch, at what speed and with what trajectory from the shoulder movement allowing him to play in advance if he needs to.

For him it's also way easy to do this because of his slow motion perception of the world.

EDIT: he doesn't read your mind or stuff, he simply can tell your entire movement by initial steps, as simple as that.

EDIT: he also upscales from Siha's AnPr, here's the profile with the explaination.

If you need scans I can send them but most of this is already on the profile.

 

[Nikoandretti]

So, you equalized speed right? it means their normal speed it's the same so both move at X speed, Yu has a specific technique called monster stance which boost his speed to the point he can blitz chaarcters who would see Yu's attack in slow motion, so it's a huge boost above X; Yu's reaction is so OP he see this speed in slow motion, so saying he would see speed X as frozen (where they scale in this fight) wouldn't be much wrong.

Okay Kiichi defeated a character called Flash Panther, who was significantly faster than him to the point he seen his attacks in slow motion like Yu seems to have with his amp, and he did it without even suffering a single blow from him. So if they are equal at the start of the fight and Yu’s perception speed is boosted Kiichi would still keep up with him and be able to win I believe based on the skill level from boxer it seems it’s just mostly pro boxing. I would say personally tough characters are more skilled in martial arts so Kiichi would have the edge once this occurs, and Yu would be vulnerable to the many grapple attacks Kiichi has along with the pressure point/shockwave attacks that can kill him on impact

Yu's AnPr is based on micromovements, to explain it I'll use a punch as example, to punch you do various steps like: 1) step forward > move your shoulder in front of you > stretch your arm > complete the punch; being able to recognize the entire movement by a previous movement is micromovemtn AnPr. Yu would be able, in this case, to know your are going for a punch, at what speed and with what trajectory from the shoulder movement allowing him to play in advance if he needs to.

Yeah I think Kiichi can bypass this with his unconscious state. Yu seems to predict off the smallest movements but Kiichi resisted people who know every move he would make before he thought to make it using supernatural means, for example. Kiichi with preparation Can play fights in his head to prepare for them beforehand, for hours on end if necessary, and he resisted someone with this level of prediction.

Kiichi also has a high level of analytical prediction. Could predict an opponent's attacks just by looking in his eyes. Learned how to react to a foe's attacks and defeated him despite being completely unable to see.

I also forgot to mention he has Supernatural fear hax that work on anyone not on his level of skill, including his own cousin who knows the same techniques as him. So this would also work on Yu before the fight even begins

 

[Zefra3011]

Okay Kiichi defeated a character called Flash Panther, who was significantly faster than him to the point he seen his attacks in slow motion like Yu seems to have with his amp, and he did it without even suffering a single blow from him. So if they are equal at the start of the fight and Yu’s perception speed is boosted Kiichi would still keep up with him and be able to win I believe based on the skill level from boxer it seems it’s just mostly pro boxing. I would say personally tough characters are more skilled in martial arts so Kiichi would have the edge once this occurs, and Yu would be vulnerable to the many grapple attacks Kiichi has along with the pressure point/shockwave attacks that can kill him on impact

I mean the only statement that we have here is this dude claiming Kiichi moves in slow motion... and that's it? How is this remotely close to what I explained before? I'll try to explain it better.

Yu punching speed (which in this fight is = to Kiichi due to speed eq), Jean (another chaarcter from the boxer) sees this speed in slow motion (which is the level of the scan you showed me as it's only mention a "slow motion" without ulterior context), Yu with a specific technique that boost his speed could perception blitz Jean to the point Jean didn't even see the attack in first place even tho he was focusing entirely on defence (this speed boost would already perception blitz the chaarcter you showed me from several meters), finally we have Yu's slow motion speed that makes him see this last speed in slow motion.

These two levels of slow motion aren't even remotely close to each others so I don't think the point you made is relevant as Yu's slow motion is vastly superior to what you showed me.

You also brought up The Boxer skill level claiming it's just pro boxing level... I'll simply tell you Yu is rated "At Least genius" and technically was even accepted to be Extraorinary Genius but got removed later on by Antvasima... it is what it is. Anyway I'm seeing Kiichi is just Genius so he might know more martial arts, sure, but Yu vastly outskills him.

Anyway all your other points are useless as I'm arguing why Yu would be untouched by Kiichi; the vastly superior reaction is quite literally enough.

Yeah I think Kiichi can bypass this with his unconscious state. Yu seems to predict off the smallest movements but Kiichi resisted people who know every move he would make before he thought to make it using supernatural means, for example. Kiichi with preparation Can play fights in his head to prepare for them beforehand, for hours on end if necessary, and he resisted someone with this level of prediction.

Ok, this is exactly wh I mentioned " he doesn't read your mind or stuff, he simply can tell your entire movement by initial steps, as simple as that", once Kiichi trhows an attack Yu can simply understand everything of it since it's entirely body language, you would need to show me an AnPr resistence that can counter this specific AnPr and not another one like you did, what you showed me doesn't make his movements different from normal ones so I don't see why Yu can't use his AnPr.

The other feat you showed requires Kiichi to have both prior knowledge and prep which doesn't have here.

Kiichi also has a high level of analytical prediction. Could predict an opponent's attacks just by looking in his eyes. Learned how to react to a foe's attacks and defeated him despite being completely unable to see.

Aight, The boxer characters are able to redirect attacks mid-attack without losing energy and speed making them almost unpredictable. Ryu, a character that Yu outskills to oblivion, was able to change from straight punch to uppercut, the opponent initially predicted the straight punch and tried to counter it but the sudden change ****** up his defence. Let's say Kiichi see Yu doing a straight punch, Yu will simply see him trying to countering it with his slow motion and micromovement AnPr and will just change attack in order to bypass that counter, unless Kiichi showed to be able to redirect his own movement he won't be able to do anything here not only this but to do so it will require him a reaction advantage which he doesn't have as he needs to react to a change after reacting to the initial attack which requires and higher reaction of course. So I believe Yu can easily **** up Kiichi's AnPr.

I also forgot to mention he has Supernatural fear hax that work on anyone not on his level of skill, including his own cousin who knows the same techniques as him. So this would also work on Yu before the fight even begins

The scan shows that if the brain recognize a "sense of fear" it will shut down, I don't see how this has any effect on Yu considering Yu fought for several rounds in a fight where even the smallest mistake would have cost his life, Yu is also stated to be a being without fear due to his trauma so I doubt his brain will ever shut down this way or even feel a "sense of fear" in first place.

 

[Nikoandretti]

I mean the only statement that we have here is this dude claiming Kiichi moves in slow motion... and that's it? How is this remotely close to what I explained before? I'll try to explain it better.

No he says they see things in slow motion since they are moving so fast when they fight, I think you misinterpreted the scan.

Yu punching speed (which in this fight is = to Kiichi due to speed eq), Jean (another chaarcter from the boxer) sees this speed in slow motion (which is the level of the scan you showed me as it's only mention a "slow motion" without ulterior context), Yu with a specific technique that boost his speed could perception blitz Jean to the point Jean didn't even see the attack in first place even tho he was focusing entirely on defence (this speed boost would already perception blitz the chaarcter you showed me from several meters), finally we have Yu's slow motion speed that makes him see this last speed in slow motion.

I countered this with my flash pather point. Flash panther’s speed was at the point Yu’s reach after your explanation. He said he seen Kiichi’s movements in slow motion. This same characters used neurophysiological drugs to enhance his kinetic vision even further and could dodge bullets at point blank range and Kiichi was still able to beat him without being touched even though he was at a significant speed disadvantage. Kiichi being way slower isn’t a disadvantage is what I’m trying to explain. He beats characters way faster than himself.

These two levels of slow motion aren't even remotely close to each others so I don't think the point you made is relevant as Yu's slow motion is vastly superior to what you showed me.

This is false because they have statements of perceiving things faster than a high speed camera, which gives an actual scale of perception. All Yu seems to have is he see’s things “like” its slow motion. But he has still been damaged by the Aaron Tide guy who used air manipulation to cut him. Kiichi has this + more. Including:

• Gentotsu (Phantom Impact): An attack that directs energy onto the foe, blasting them from afar with a fist-shaped wave of air. Can be used in conjunction with Tamasuberi to redirect the foe's energy at them.

Yu doesn’t have enhances senses/awareness on his profile so he won’t be able to react to something he can’t see.

• Unseen Fist: A punch that moves so fast that it cannot be seen, making those who witness it think the user is attacking with their spirit instead. It draws a heavy toll on the user's body, but it is extremely powerful. One of the Nadashinkage's tightest-guarded secrets, only Shiichi and Son-O have learned it

This technique is nearly impossible to dodge.

Tiger's Paw Strike: A kick only possible for those who have the Monster's Foot, this kick is so fast it is impossible to react to and causes the target to feel as if time has stopped, while in reality they've already been struck by it. It is also invisible on high speed cameras and equal in speed and power to Oton's Tiger Paw Strike. Kiichi can utilize it with both legs and perform up to five kicks in a single leap.

You also brought up The Boxer skill level claiming it's just pro boxing level... I'll simply tell you Yu is rated "At Least genius" and technically was even accepted to be Extraorinary Genius but got removed later on by Antvasima... it is what it is. Anyway I'm seeing Kiichi is just Genius so he might know more martial arts, sure, but Yu vastly outskills him.

Vastly is wild. Kiichi invented his own martial arts style by like 18 years old. Called Nada-Shin-Kamikageryu: After Kiichi's fight with Kasukabe Kakugo, the Nadashinkage and Yugenshinkage schools agreed to merge together, with Kiichi becoming the teacher of this new art
Also half of this martial art that he created draws elements from effectively all martial arts, even ones as obscure as chinese grounded boxing and regular boxing like the only style Yu knows. Kiichi knows advanced joint locks, techniques that kill, techniques that harden his body to break swords, techniques that shut down the brain, nerves, techniques that make you hallucinate, he can even heal people. Yu doesn’t even have proper leg defense and has only fought one style. Kiichi has faced everything there is, including fighting androids.

Anyway all your other points are useless as I'm arguing why Yu would be untouched by Kiichi; the vastly superior reaction is quite literally enough.

I think he would touch him quite easily based off the reasons I stated. You can’t dismiss my points like that, I’m addressing yours piece by piece with full detail.

Ok, this is exactly wh I mentioned " he doesn't read your mind or stuff, he simply can tell your entire movement by initial steps, as simple as that", once Kiichi trhows an attack Yu can simply understand everything of it since it's entirely body language, you would need to show me an AnPr resistence that can counter this specific AnPr and not another one like you did, what you showed me doesn't make his movements different from normal ones so I don't see why Yu can't use his AnPr.

This is pretty basic in tough. Kiichi killed his own uncle Kiryu, who fought and defeated a foe with his eyes closed using prediction. Has the same ability as Kiichi and Can use one of the bloodlines ability called the Eye to analyze his foe's physical condition through facial cues, appearance and posture, spotting weak points of various sorts, such as sensing a weakness in the liver from the color of the iris, and knowing to strike a point in the sole of the foot connected to the liver. He can assess internal damage with incredible precision well after a fight and even use it to learn the workings of a technique and counter it despite never actually having witnessed it.

This is far beyond just predicting movements. Kiichi resistance is superior to Yu’s ANPR but Yu doesn’t have feats on his profile from what I see that proves he can resist Kiichi’s prediction, as Kiichi has done it to characters just as skilled as himself.

The other feat you showed requires Kiichi to have both prior knowledge and prep which doesn't have here.

Which one? Kiichi doesn’t use prep on anyone besides his family members who he fought. I mostly sent random encounter fights

Aight, The boxer characters are able to redirect attacks mid-attack without losing energy and speed making them almost unpredictable.

Is there a scan that say this makes them unpredictable? Because you dismissed my cannon scan stating Kiichi’s unconscious state makes him impossible to read.

Ryu, a character that Yu outskills to oblivion, was able to change from straight punch to uppercut, the opponent initially predicted the straight punch and tried to counter it but the sudden change ****** up his defence. Let's say Kiichi see Yu doing a straight punch, Yu will simply see him trying to countering it with his slow motion and micromovement AnPr and will just change attack in order to bypass that counter, unless Kiichi showed to be able to redirect his own movement he won't be able to do anything here

Kiichi can do more than just redirect his own movements. He can even fight in mid air doing it.

Kiichi AnPr seems to be better as he can react to attacks before they even begin, unlike Yu who needs minimal movement for prediction.

not only this but to do so it will require him a reaction advantage which he doesn't have as he needs to react to a change after reacting to the initial attack which requires and higher reaction of course. So I believe Yu can easily **** up Kiichi's AnPr.

I countered this in the point above. Kiichi can predict opponents before they even attack.

The scan shows that if the brain recognize a "sense of fear" it will shut down, I don't see how this has any effect on Yu considering Yu fought for several rounds in a fight where even the smallest mistake would have cost his life, Yu is also stated to be a being without fear due to his trauma so I doubt his brain will ever shut down this way or even feel a "sense of fear" in first place.

Oton , who this worked on has been in far more deadly situations if you knew his background where his life was actually on the line in the moment including mini-gun bullets being shot at him grazing him before he barely dodged, being shot by a sniper rifle and redirecting the bullet across his body so it doesn’t pierce his organs and catching a bullet that was milliseconds from killing him. 0 fear shown until he faced his son.

Also unless Yu has resistance to fear hax this will work on him. That isn’t how it works. He needs resistance to it. The ability was approved for a reason.

I think the mod @Armorchompy made their profiles. He should know better than I would.

 

[azontr]

Following but letting Zefra argue for me so he experiences the pain of having to carry every Yu match on his back like Atlas.

 

[Rikimarox2]

That fear manip seems to be relient on the strength of the opponent? The scan itself says when it faces mortal danger, the brain stops. The problem is, Yu is not only much stronger than Kiichi, this guy is dead inside and barely gives a flying **** about anything. The only time he actually showed real emotion was when the equivalent of Jesus Christ of Boxing appeared.

Also, am I tripping here or are people just not acknowledging the 7x AP gap for Yu? Which Yu heavily upscales from (The man who did the feat got knocked out in one punch, and Yu got stronger later as well). The only way for Kiichi to win is to assume that he can somehow, someway, dodge absolutely everything Yu does (Lmao), which even assuming if he was more skilled (Highly doubt it), I highly doubt he would be able to dodge everything.

Slow-mo perception + 7x AP gap is enough for Yu to absolutely decimate Kiichi. One or two hits and the man is dead.

 

[Armorchompy]

Slow motion isn't anything new to Kiichi, even at a much lesser skill level he can enter Sky Eye/Kime-Sorame, a state where he does something similar, to such a degree that he literally cannot be hit by people who were pretty reliably beating him before, with all his actual senses distorted. This same technique also lets him precog a whole ass fight against someone else who is capable of using it, before playing any of it in real time. I don't know The Boxer but judging by the profiles all of this is happening at a much greater general skill level than that series, so that's something to keep in mind too. So not being hit for the entire fight isn't such an impossible concept. Something worth noting is that this is when the Monster Legs Kiichi and the other guy had were a big part of the plotline so among the things they're seeing in slowmo are normally blitz-worthy (to the point of you never realizing they happened) attacks.

I wouldn't expect Fear Manipulation to work here. It's really just a power/skill check and if someone was gonna get affected by it they'd probably lose to Kiichi anyways. If Yu subconsciously realized he was going to lose he'd be getting haxed regardless of his mindset and his will to fight but I don't know if that's relevant here.

Yu's AnPr is based on micromovements, to explain it I'll use a punch as example, to punch you do various steps like: 1) step forward > move your shoulder in front of you > stretch your arm > complete the punch; being able to recognize the entire movement by a previous movement is micromovement AnPr. Yu would be able, in this case, to know your are going for a punch, at what speed and with what trajectory from the shoulder movement allowing him to play in advance if he needs to.

For him it's also way easy to do this because of his slow motion perception of the world.

EDIT: he doesn't read your mind or stuff, he simply can tell your entire movement by initial steps, as simple as that.

That's sort of the exact thing Kiichi is resisting. Scans here.

Aight, The boxer characters are able to redirect attacks mid-attack without losing energy and speed making them almost unpredictable.

This is like, the most basic thing martial arts series ever. Hell it's just an IRL martial arts thing. Not really anything he needs to worry about, and something he could do as a kid while boosting their power. In terms of his own info analysis/mimicry Kiichi can copy fighting techniques from a style he's only just began to fight against despite them normally requiring a special body structure. He can also perfectly reconstruct entire fights in his mind just by looking at a few splatters of blood and footprints, so throwing a weird punch isn't gonna ruffle his feathers too much, especially given the Looney Tunes shit that often happens in his series.

Since the AP gap makes things pretty sketchy for Kiichi I'm going to post a few of the things he can do to beat stronger opponents:

1. Grappling: This may seem simple compared to the following stuff but Kiichi is a master grappler and with Yu's LS being unknown (and with him being a boxer I would expect he'd have relatively little grappling experience) Kiichi can extremely easily force him into a grapple and from then on do basically whatever he pleases. Even IRL being a mixed striker/grappler grants enormous advantage vs someone who only does striking and Yu would be forced to avoid being grabbed altogether due to his lower LS, so this allows Kiichi to play on the offensive a lot- even with the AP advantage he cannot afford to attack willy nilly because Kiichi even just getting his hands on a limb is game over for him, Kiichi can break any and all of his limbs or ligaments or choke him out. He can also do a sliding tackle, which against a boxer would be particularly effective because it'd allow him to essentially fully go under arm striking range, or just kinda jump on your ass.
   1. A really good quick one to bust out for him would be Fire Fingers, just grab the guy's fingies as he's punching and go to town.
   2. He has a special throw that literally makes you see god. Not relevant but very funny.
2. Pressure Points: Just a very wide variety of attacks he can land on you to instantly take you out. Not gonna post them cause there's like, a dozen, but they're in NA&T.
3. Shockwave/Energy Projection: Kiichi can send shockwaves through you and blast your internal organs- Yu might be able to take a few since he's so much more durable but they'd do a lot more damage than normal punches still. He can also redirect these however he pleases.
4. Stamina: Holy shit is Kiichi's stamina so much better than Yu's. Honestly given he can very easily analyze an opponent's physical condition he might just catch onto this and tire him out rather than fight him outright.
5. Defense: Kiichi has various techniques to make sure Yu's greater AP never really lands with full force. He can protect himself from attacks that'd tear up his insides with energy shields, harden his muscles enough to stop cuts, and then good ol Bullet Slide and its offshoots, which let Nadashin practitioners deflect blades, punches, energy, arrows and bullets. Not all of this is relevant here but I think it's a good showcase of how versatile it is.
6. Reactive Development: This is a pretty big one, if Kiichi's ever in a losing position his instincts will push him to a greater level of skill, allowing him to instantly master techniques he never even knew before (sometimes multiple times in the same fight), specifically developed for the situation.

 

[Zefra3011]

No he says they see things in slow motion since they are moving so fast when they fight, I think you misinterpreted the scan.

Then it's just a speed feat? They have equal speed here.

I countered this with my flash pather point. Flash panther’s speed was at the point Yu’s reach after your explanation. He said he seen Kiichi’s movements in slow motion. This same characters used neurophysiological drugs to enhance his kinetic vision even further and could dodge bullets at point blank range and Kiichi was still able to beat him without being touched even though he was at a significant speed disadvantage. Kiichi being way slower isn’t a disadvantage is what I’m trying to explain. He beats characters way faster than himself.

You didn't really explained how it's on Yu's point other than "he sees Kiichi in slow motion", I even argued how Kiichi might as well be frozen comapred to Yu's reaction.

Anyway I never said Yu would be faster, I mean, normally he wouldn't as speed is eq, I talked about his higher reaction time on his profile which is different than just being able to kick faster, I believe even IRL you can beat someone faster than you, tho beating someone who sees every of you single move in heavy slow motion is another story.

This is false because they have statements of perceiving things faster than a high speed camera, which gives an actual scale of perception. All Yu seems to have is he see’s things “like” its slow motion. But he has still been damaged by the Aaron Tide guy who used air manipulation to cut him.

Nono, he outright sees stuff in slow motion.

If you want an example we have a lesser character who, once he entered the "slow motion dimension", could percieve bullet as stopped in time.

About Aaron, he didn't cut him with Air Manipulation but with his punch, Yu was always in the middle of the air pressure generated by Aaron and was always undamaged.

• Gentotsu (Phantom Impact): An attack that directs energy onto the foe, blasting them from afar with a fist-shaped wave of air. Can be used in conjunction with Tamasuberi to redirect the foe's energy at them.

This can be countered with AnPr, he will percieve the air coming to him in slow motion and stuff...

• Unseen Fist: A punch that moves so fast that it cannot be seen, making those who witness it think the user is attacking with their spirit instead. It draws a heavy toll on the user's body, but it is extremely powerful. One of the Nadashinkage's tightest-guarded secrets, only Shiichi and Son-O have learned it

it can't be see because of speed, at least from what I read here, the point of "I can't see it" is because of the speed of the punch; not only here we have speed eq but Yu also sees said speed in slow motion.

Tiger's Paw Strike: A kick only possible for those who have the Monster's Foot, this kick is so fast it is impossible to react to and causes the target to feel as if time has stopped, while in reality they've already been struck by it. It is also invisible on high speed cameras and equal in speed and power to Oton's Tiger Paw Strike. Kiichi can utilize it with both legs and perform up to five kicks in a single leap.

well, same as before, speed is equalized + slow motion.

I think he would touch him quite easily based off the reasons I stated. You can’t dismiss my points like that, I’m addressing yours piece by piece with full detail.

All I said is that it's not really useful going for "he can grapple Yu" when we are discussing if Kiichi will be able to hit Yu in first place, just that.

This is far beyond just predicting movements. Kiichi resistance is superior to Yu’s ANPR but Yu doesn’t have feats on his profile from what I see that proves he can resist Kiichi’s prediction, as Kiichi has done it to characters just as skilled as himself.

It's not a matter of resisting to "stronger" AnPr, it's a matter of resisting yo Yu's one specifically, to do so you outright have to do weird stuff with your body... Well the character who did it, Ryu, failed too.

Is there a scan that say this makes them unpredictable? Because you dismissed my cannon scan stating Kiichi’s unconscious state makes him impossible to read.

"impossible to read" "unpredictable" vary based on the skill level, this dude might find impossible to read Kiichi but someone more skilled might not, it's not really a point, especially when we talk about different AnPrs.

Kiichi can do more than just redirect his own movements. He can even fight in mid air doing it.

That's not more, kicking mid air is cool but I don't see how it helps here, the example I used is something on pair with suddendly change an attack into another one which is outright impossible normally as in doing so you will lose momentum and energy.

Kiichi AnPr seems to be better as he can react to attacks before they even begin, unlike Yu who needs minimal movement for prediction.

It's not that he needs to, just given his slow motion that's the best option for him but less skilled chaarcter can predict attacks before they happen, they just need to have few info about how you fight.

I countered this in the point above. Kiichi can predict opponents before they even attack.

Can you be more specific with this? You previously showed me a scan of him needing eyes to predict attacks and based on what does he predicts attack before they happen? I didn't really get it.

Also unless Yu has resistance to fear hax this will work on him. That isn’t how it works. He needs resistance to it. The ability was approved for a reason.

I told you how the fear hax you showed me activates and how Yu isn't affected by it due to not percieving a "sense of fear" in first place; I'm not saying he is unaffaected by every fear hax but he is for this one specifically and maybe some others.

 

[Zefra3011]

Slow motion isn't anything new to Kiichi, even at a much lesser skill level he can enter Sky Eye/Kime-Sorame, a state where he does something similar, to such a degree that he literally cannot be hit by people who were pretty reliably beating him before, with all his actual senses distorted. This same technique also lets him precog a whole ass fight against someone else who is capable of using it, before playing any of it in real time. I don't know The Boxer but judging by the profiles all of this is happening at a much greater general skill level than that series, so that's something to keep in mind too. So not being hit for the entire fight isn't such an impossible concept. Something worth noting is that this is when the Monster Legs Kiichi and the other guy had were a big part of the plotline so among the things they're seeing in slowmo are normally blitz-worthy (to the point of you never realizing they happened) attacks.

I might agree he can see Yu in slow motion as well once Kiichi enters this state of unconsciousness but once Yu realizes he can't hit Kiichi normally he would pull out his Monster Stance, which is a specific attack that Jean, who earlier was able to see Yu in slow motion, couldn't percieve at all and they were several meters away.

There rest is covered by speed eq, when I explained Yu's slow motion I explained how it's an heavy slowmotion starting from his speed (yeah, yu sees himself in slwo motion too), Yu base speed would already be on Kiichi speed level, seeing lesser characters in slow motion doesn't really help imo.

That's sort of the exact thing Kiichi is resisting. Scans here.

It might be on me but... isn't this just an AnPr that predicts the fight in advance? How does he help him resisting Yu's AnPr when it's based on something else?

This is like, the most basic thing martial arts series ever. Hell it's just an IRL martial arts thing. Not really anything he needs to worry about, and something he could do as a kid while boosting their power.

I believe I didn't make myself clear here, it's no just redirecting attacks but it's the ability to completely break the attack and suddendly change in another one out of nowhere; it's not just slightly changing the direction of an attack.

In terms of his own info analysis/mimicry Kiichi can copy fighting techniques from a style he's only just began to fight against despite them normally requiring a special body structure. He can also perfectly reconstruct entire fights in his mind just by looking at a few splatters of blood and footprints, so throwing a weird punch isn't gonna ruffle his feathers too much, especially given the Looney Tunes shit that often happens in his series.

It's not just a weird punch, Yu will go for an attack and either Kiichi predicts it before or just reacts to it he will make something in order to counter said punch, in that moment Yu will simply change attack completely and avoid whatever counter Kiichi tried to made. This is hard to predict as Yu's intention at start are for the first attack so you won't percieve it's a feint or something as he is really going for it... it just change it after if he needs to. I saw earlier scans about Kiichi being able to see where you strike based on your eyes, Yu eyes'll tell him he is going for something that will suddendly change in something else. You can't prepare prior against this, I mean, normally.

Since the AP gap makes things pretty sketchy for Kiichi I'm going to post a few of the things he can do to beat stronger opponents:

1. Grappling: This may seem simple compared to the following stuff but Kiichi is a master grappler and with Yu's LS being unknown (and with him being a boxer I would expect he'd have relatively little grappling experience) Kiichi can extremely easily force him into a grapple and from then on do basically whatever he pleases. Even IRL being a mixed striker/grappler grants enormous advantage vs someone who only does striking and Yu would be forced to avoid being grabbed altogether due to his lower LS, so this allows Kiichi to play on the offensive a lot- even with the AP advantage he cannot afford to attack willy nilly because Kiichi even just getting his hands on a limb is game over for him, Kiichi can break any and all of his limbs or ligaments or choke him out. He can also do a sliding tackle, which against a boxer would be particularly effective because it'd allow him to essentially fully go under arm striking range, or just kinda jump on your ass.
   1. A really good quick one to bust out for him would be Fire Fingers, just grab the guy's fingies as he's punching and go to town.
   2. He has a special throw that literally makes you see god. Not relevant but very funny.
2. Pressure Points: Just a very wide variety of attacks he can land on you to instantly take you out. Not gonna post them cause there's like, a dozen, but they're in NA&T.
3. Shockwave/Energy Projection: Kiichi can send shockwaves through you and blast your internal organs- Yu might be able to take a few since he's so much more durable but they'd do a lot more damage than normal punches still. He can also redirect these however he pleases.
4. Stamina: Holy shit is Kiichi's stamina so much better than Yu's. Honestly given he can very easily analyze an opponent's physical condition he might just catch onto this and tire him out rather than fight him outright.
5. Defense: Kiichi has various techniques to make sure Yu's greater AP never really lands with full force. He can protect himself from attacks that'd tear up his insides with energy shields, harden his muscles enough to stop cuts, and then good ol Bullet Slide and its offshoots, which let Nadashin practitioners deflect blades, punches, energy, arrows and bullets. Not all of this is relevant here but I think it's a good showcase of how versatile it is.
6. Reactive Development: This is a pretty big one, if Kiichi's ever in a losing position his instincts will push him to a greater level of skill, allowing him to instantly master techniques he never even knew before (sometimes multiple times in the same fight), specifically developed for the situation.

I see, the techniques you sent already cover what I'm going to say but I think it's still worth to present that Yu developed a specific technique that damage your internal organs, when he went for someone's heart with it Yu made it stop. I can understand Kiichi might be able to reduce this damage but Yu scales a one shot above the small building rating of the verse (only ap tho) which is already almost 7x above Kiichi, not only that but with his Monster Stance he can even boost his ap... I don't know if Kiichi can really take an hit on the heart but if he can... another one would be fatal imo.

 

[Armorchompy]

I might agree he can see Yu in slow motion as well once Kiichi enters this state of unconsciousness but once Yu realizes he can't hit Kiichi normally he would pull out his Monster Stance, which is a specific attack that Jean, who earlier was able to see Yu in slow motion, couldn't percieve at all and they were several meters away.

There rest is covered by speed eq, when I explained Yu's slow motion I explained how it's an heavy slowmotion starting from his speed (yeah, yu sees himself in slwo motion too), Yu base speed would already be on Kiichi speed level, seeing lesser characters in slow motion doesn't really help imo.

They're not "lesser characters", Son-o is basically equal to Kiichi and each could blitz each other with their special kicks (The kicks actually even have a higher speed rating than their overall combat speed), and that is what they see in slow-motion, all of that coupled with precog much better than Yu's.

It might be on me but... isn't this just an AnPr that predicts the fight in advance? How does he help him resisting Yu's AnPr when it's based on something else?

They're both basing it off their observations of the opponent, there is no practical difference. Not that I think he really needs to resist it proper, with his ability to develop and modify new techniques on the fly and general superiority + versatility, just being able to see what he can do is enough to counter it.

I believe I didn't make myself clear here, it's no just redirecting attacks but it's the ability to completely break the attack and suddendly change in another one out of nowhere; it's not just slightly changing the direction of an attack.

Yeah that's not really too impressive, you can literally tell by his posture while he's charging that he's in a position where he could throw an uppercut. It's a good fake-out but it's nothing outlandish, and it's still following basic physical logic.

It's not just a weird punch, Yu will go for an attack and either Kiichi predicts it before or just reacts to it he will make something in order to counter said punch, in that moment Yu will simply change attack completely and avoid whatever counter Kiichi tried to made. This is hard to predict as Yu's intention at start are for the first attack so you won't percieve it's a feint or something as he is really going for it... it just change it after if he needs to. I saw earlier scans about Kiichi being able to see where you strike based on your eyes, Yu eyes'll tell him he is going for something that will suddendly change in something else. You can't prepare prior against this, I mean, normally.

That's unlikely. Faking another fighter out is a very common practice in both IRL martial arts competitions and in Tough. With Kiichi's much greater level of overall skill I doubt he wouldn't be able to see through feints or multiple possible attacks at once. Especially when he enters the Sky Eye, which lets him precog whole fights.

I see, the techniques you sent already cover what I'm going to say but I think it's still worth to present that Yu developed a specific technique that damage your internal organs, when he went for someone's heart with it Yu made it stop. I can understand Kiichi might be able to reduce this damage but Yu scales a one shot above the small building rating of the verse (only ap tho) which is already almost 7x above Kiichi, not only that but with his Monster Stance he can even boost his ap... I don't know if Kiichi can really take an hit on the heart but if he can... another one would be fatal imo.

Kiichi actually has incredibly developed resistance to this sort of attack even at the very beginning of the series, but with the AP gap it's fair to say that wouldn't be enough. However, that doesn't matter at all, because Kiichi is capable of utilizing Haito-Gaeshi, a technique that redirects internal shockwaves going through one's body back to the opponent's, so if Yu ever tries that Kiichi can just turn it back on him.

 

[Nikoandretti]

I agree with Amorchompy FRA. I’m voting for Kiichi unless new arguments change my mind.

 

[Nikoandretti]

Then it's just a speed feat? They have equal speed here.

Thats not the entire point tho. I was showing this to let you know slow motion perception wouldn’t make kiichi uncomfortable as he’s fought Flash Panther, and Garcia 28 who have the same effect along with himself. The slow motion perception point cancels each other out since they both utilize it

You didn't really explained how it's on Yu's point other than "he sees Kiichi in slow motion", I even argued how Kiichi might as well be frozen comapred to Yu's reaction.

If someone can see Kiichi in slow motion yet he can still blitz them at that speed of moving that would mean Yu’s slow motion perception would be done the same way since it’s not a hindrance to Kiichi’s performance.

Anyway I never said Yu would be faster, I mean, normally he wouldn't as speed is eq, I talked about his higher reaction time on his profile which is different than just being able to kick faster, I believe even IRL you can beat someone faster than you, tho beating someone who sees every of you single move in heavy slow motion is another story.

You don’t seem to understand Flash Panther saw Kiichi in slow motion . It’s the same exact thing. He wasn’t just faster he was significantly faster which resulted in the slow motion perception. It’s the same thing with different explanations, and Kiichi beat him without being touched.

Nono, he outright sees stuff in slow motion.

This is kind of inconsistent with his feats since Aaron tide attacks would be in slow motion but he didn’t react that way, which means the slow motion effect but only work on people slower than him. Which would be negated in a equalized speed fight.

If you want an example we have a lesser character who, once he entered the "slow motion dimension", could percieve bullet as stopped in time.

Flash Panther did this on a higher scale and other characters percieve mini gun bullets in this speed I’m not really sure how this helps Yu

About Aaron, he didn't cut him with Air Manipulation but with his punch, Yu was always in the middle of the air pressure generated by Aaron and was always undamaged.

His skin was lacerated and he had people thinking he would die from the damage. Thats childsplay in tough ngl

This can be countered with AnPr, he will percieve the air coming to him in slow motion and stuff...

AnPr is not an answer for everything . He doesn’t have non physical interaction, ESP or enhanced awareness to sense something like that technique. Air is not visible

it can't be see because of speed, at least from what I read here, the point of "I can't see it" is because of the speed of the punch; not only here we have speed eq but Yu also sees said speed in slow motion.

the technique itself is called unseen punch. It’s not a speed technique. It’s not a speed reliant technique. It’s supernatural if anything

well, same as before, speed is equalized + slow motion.

Tiger paw strike kicks speed negates speed equalized because it’s done at a way higher speed than their original attacking speed.

All I said is that it's not really useful going for "he can grapple Yu" when we are discussing if Kiichi will be able to hit Yu in first place, just that.

I already explained Kiichi has resisted far more skilled fighters than Yu so his ANPR is ineffective with Kiichi based on how resistance abilities work. You would have to prove Yu has better ANPR than Kiichi’s uncle Kiryu, who fought and defeated a foe with his eyes closed using prediction. Has the same ability as Kiichi and Can use one of the bloodlines ability called the Eye to analyze his foe's physical condition through facial cues, appearance and posture, spotting weak points of various sorts, such as sensing a weakness in the liver from the color of the iris, and knowing to strike a point in the sole of the foot connected to the liver. He can assess internal damage with incredible precision well after a fight and even use it to learn the workings of a technique and counter it despite never actually having witnessed it.

All Yu anpr are on the basic level tbh

It's not a matter of resisting to "stronger" AnPr, it's a matter of resisting yo Yu's one specifically, to do so you outright have to do weird stuff with your body... Well the character who did it, Ryu, failed too.

That only applies to Boxer characters. It doesn’t apply to vs matches unless you can prove his AnPr is better than the resistance feats which from what I’m reading, is not

"impossible to read" "unpredictable" vary based on the skill level, this dude might find impossible to read Kiichi but someone more skilled might not, it's not really a point, especially when we talk about different AnPrs.

That dude is more skilled than Yu lol that’s the point. Most characters in tough are more skilled, these are not just martial artist who picked up a hobby

That's not more, kicking mid air is cool but I don't see how it helps here, the example I used is something on pair with suddendly change an attack into another one which is outright impossible normally as in doing so you will lose momentum and energy.

You don’t understand Kiichi then bro. He does the impossible. He can take your own technique and evolve it into an entirely different move.

It's not that he needs to, just given his slow motion that's the best option for him but less skilled chaarcter can predict attacks before they happen, they just need to have few info about how you fight.

We can’t say he doesn’t need to if that’s the only way of prediction he has showcased. Kiichi has faced every type of anpr from higher skilled older more experienced fighters.

Can you be more specific with this? You previously showed me a scan of him needing eyes to predict attacks and based on what does he predicts attack before they happen? I didn't really get it.

He was 17 when he needed to see the eyes to predict. The 1st timeskip is when he could predict attacks before they happened, and the key in using in this fight is on an entirely different level than that. His ANPR improves at a alarming rate

I told you how the fear hax you showed me activates and how Yu isn't affected by it due to not percieving a "sense of fear" in first place;

You can’t apply resistance fear hax to yu when it’s not on his page. It affects him until he has resistance, and you just did a crt for this character so I don’t think there will be anything added since the manhwa is done

I'm not saying he is unaffaected by every fear hax but he is for this one specifically and maybe some others.

Based off what? He doesn’t even have resistance fear hax to begin with.

 

[Nikoandretti]

Following but letting Zefra argue for me so he experiences the pain of having to carry every Yu match on his back like Atlas.

Alright

 

[Nikoandretti]

That fear manip seems to be relient on the strength of the opponent? The scan itself says when it faces mortal danger, the brain stops.

He lacks the skill and physical lifting strength which people attach to “stronger”, but in tough “stronger” is in reference to skill. Since all 3 characters in the scans use the same exact fighting techniques.

The problem is, Yu is not only much stronger than Kiichi, this guy is dead inside and barely gives a flying **** about anything.

Yu is not stronger he only hits harder and his lack of emotions doesn’t keep him from being affected by fear hax. He needs resistance to fear manip

The only time he actually showed real emotion was when the equivalent of Jesus Christ of Boxing appeared.

That doesn’t help him.

Also, am I tripping here or are people just not acknowledging the 7x AP gap for Yu? Which Yu heavily upscales from (The man who did the feat got knocked out in one punch, and Yu got stronger later as well).

The AP difference isn’t even 7x more it’s 6.8x I did the math before I even created the thread. Also unless you have an actual feat that scales him higher than the current AP , this will be used.

The only way for Kiichi to win is to assume that he can somehow, someway, dodge absolutely everything Yu does (Lmao),

He would dodge easily and this is false btw. He has multiple forms of damage reduction and damage boost for his own AP. Yu does not. Kiichi also has techniques that bypass durability and kill on impact.

which even assuming if he was more skilled (Highly doubt it), I highly doubt he would be able to dodge everything.

Kiichi is even more skilled than Ohma Tokita and Baki Hanma. To say Yu is more skilled is kinda hilarious . Just to end the argument I will repeat what I told the other member.
-
Kiichi invented his own martial arts style by like 18 years old. Called Nada-Shin-Kamikageryu: After Kiichi's fight with Kasukabe Kakugo, the Nadashinkage and Yugenshinkage schools agreed to merge together, with Kiichi becoming the teacher of this new art
Also half of this martial art that he created draws elements from effectively all martial arts, even ones as obscure as chinese grounded boxing and regular boxing like the only style Yu knows. Kiichi knows advanced joint locks, techniques that kill, techniques that harden his body to break swords, techniques that shut down the brain, nerves, techniques that make you hallucinate, he can even heal people. Yu doesn’t even have proper leg defense and has only fought one style. Kiichi has faced everything there is, including fighting androids.

Slow-mo perception + 7x AP gap is enough for Yu to absolutely decimate Kiichi. One or two hits and the man is dead.

Both of these are incorrect

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Normal punches < (Blitz) Technique < (Slow motion) Jean's Reaction < (Blitz) Monster stance < (Slow motion) Yu's reaction (I think it was like this?)

So far, I only have seen Jean's reaction feats at best

No idea how Kiichi gets past this

 

[Armorchompy]

Normal punches < (Blitz) Technique < (Slow motion) Jean's Reaction < (Blitz) Monster stance < (Slow motion) Yu's reaction (I think it was like this?)

So far, I only have seen Jean's reaction feats at best

No idea how Kiichi gets past this

I'd want to see scans for like, literally all of this btw

 

[Nikoandretti]

Normal punches < (Blitz) Technique < (Slow motion) Jean's Reaction < (Blitz) Monster stance < (Slow motion) Yu's reaction (I think it was like this?)

This is irrelevant in this fight. Speed is equalized

So far, I only have seen Jean's reaction feats at best

No idea how Kiichi gets past this

Quite easily based off the points me and @Armorchompy pointed out. Kiichi has so many ways to end this fight it’s hilarious

 

[Nikoandretti]

Also, if speed is equalized that would negate Yu’s slow motion perception to equal Kiichi’s unless he has an amplifier that boosts his kinetic vision at will rather than what he normally sees . Other wise Yu’s slow motion perception can’t even be used. He can’t still see people in slow mo if they equal across the board

 

[Nikoandretti]

Also Yu has no answer for the Sky Eye, where Kiichi perceive the fight from a third person perspective, in slow motion . He has multiple versions of what Yu has

 

[Tllmbrg]

Kiichi FRA

 

[Nikoandretti]

Kiichi FRA

Vote counted

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'd want to see scans for like, literally all of this btw

Punches with technique blitzing people

K being capable of seeing a bullet as frozen

Jean upscaling K due to reaching the realm Yu is (Since K does not reach that realm)

Monster stance blitzes Jean

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I didn't vote why am i in the OP?

 

[Nikoandretti]

I didn't vote why am i in the OP?

I removed it

 

[Armorchompy]

Punches with technique blitzing people

K being capable of seeing a bullet as frozen

Jean upscaling K due to reaching the realm Yu is (Since K does not reach that realm)

Monster stance blitzes Jean

I'm not sure I understand the logic of the scaling, it just seems like Yu's blitzing a guy (Jean) who's >>> a bullet timing feat (K)?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm not sure I understand the logic of the scaling, it just seems like Yu's blitzing a guy (Jean) who's >>> a bullet timing feat (K)?

No, Jean scales higher than K who saw the bullet as frozen for a second due to being in the same realm as Yu passively

K (Sees bullet as frozen for 1 second) << Jean (Is passively in the world where he sees things such as bullets as frozen) < Monster stance (Blitzed Jean) < Yu's reaction (Sees monster stance in slow motion)

 

[azontr]

(Sees monster stance in slow motion)

Yu doesn't see his own stance in slow motion. Where are you getting this?

 

[azontr]

Anyways, I'm voting Yu. Kiibo is certainly more skilled but the gap's not that high. I'm not convinced that he's skilled enough to circumvent getting hit once (fight ender). Even a simple graze can be deadly, which can lead into Yu simply blitzing at close range and splattering his brains.

If the AP gap was closer, I'd say Kiibo probably wins. The issue is just that most of the techniques he uses to reduce the potential damage are just unquantifiable with numbers/multipliers.

 

[Zefra3011]

Aight, since I would need to write another bible to answer everything I'll answer the most important things later, for now I want to explain better Yu's easiest wincon and try to explain better @XxZetsuxX 's point.

From what I saw, and correct me if I'm wrong, Kiichi is able to see in slow motion attacks that are a blitz gap above his normal combat speed; this is really Yu's victims level in the boxer and I'm gonna explain the scaling chain better with better scans:

1) Character have a combat speed and this is where. due to speed equalize, both Kiichi and Yu normal combat speed falls.

2) Kiichi has some attacks that are a blitz above his normal combat speed so we starts to talk about "higher attack speed", every The Boxer character has the same "higher attack speed" in fact boxers have to train AnPr in order to evade said attacks as their reaction can't match said punches, if we take Jean he is able to pull out techniques that make him blitz people from 10m away after entering a "real" or "state", call it as you prefer, that allowed him to reach the pinnacle of technique which in The Boxer is some sort of multiplier to your base speed and ap, while this is how technique also works IRL in The Boxer we have cases, like Jean, where the multiplier allows you to reach superhuman feats like the one I showed you. So now we have Jean's attack speed on pair with Kiichi's one as both are a blitz gap above their normal combat speed.

3) Kiichi is able to see his "higher attack speed" in slow motion, Jean can as well, Jean reached a real that other than boosting his technique as I explained earlier also boosts his slow motion, like Yu (Yu's slow motion scales higher than Jean but I'll get to this later, now I just need the explaination), Jean describes it as a dimension where every moment of time is sharp and everything is clear. Here we have both using their techniques and being able to react to their punches which means they are able to see their own Attack Speed in slow motion as to react to these punches you must be capable of it as K explained above when he talked about Yu. So now Jean's slow motion is on pair with Kiichi's one and this is where your scaling chain ends based on what I read.

4) Since Yu wasn't able to hit Jean with his normal "higher Attack Speed", due to Jean's slow motion, he pulled out a specific technique that boosted his speed even more to the point that Jean, even tho he himself was able to do something similar and therefore had a sort of prior knowledge against it, got completely blitzed and didn't even saw the attack starting even tho Yu was several meters away, its also worth to notice that Jean was focusing all on defense. So we have Yu being able to blitz said slow motion (where Kiichi scales unless there is more context that I'm not aware) with this specific attack, to clarify not every attack scales here in speed but only this "Monster Stance".

5)Ok, now I'll talk where Yu's slow motion scales at. The second time Yu tried to use this specific technique Jean was more prepared and by anticipating it he decided to make a counter in order to hit Yu when he would be too close, so unless Yu dodges it he will get hit, keep in mind Yu isn't aware of this but only notices it after he dashed and yet he was able to react to it (the combination of his own monster stance speed and the speed of Jean's punch) and managed to avoid getting hit which means he sees said speed in slow motion or anyway he is able to react to it at bare minimum.

So in conclusion in this scaling chain Kiichi is Jean level of "higher attack speed" and slow motion while Yu was able to blitz said slow motion with his Monster Stance so I don't see why he can't just use it and nuke Kiichi instantly. The difference in AP is also way higher than x7, the character who has the Small Building feat in The Boxer is Viktor. Yu completely nuked Viktor with a single punch without even using his monster stance and while having various disadvantages. So Yu can one shot characters who scales almost x7 Kiichi casually, not only that but his Monster Stance even increase his AP as well to the point Yu could push back Aaron even tho his other attacks didn't make the slightest damage to Aaron.

I saw Kiichi can redirect internal shockwaves which is cool but I doubt he can when the opponent blitzes him. I mean, not that Yu really needs to use his Durab Neg in first place but even if he does...


So for now I vote for Yu as I believe his monster stance would nuke Kiichi.

Even if you argue AnPr we have to keep in mind Kiichi doesn't have any prior knowledge on Yu or this specific attack so he will have hard time knowing Yu will suddendly dash at him at a speed he can't see, but even if he predict it... what can he do? Yu is still massively faster than him with this attack and Kiichi can't even block as Yu would nuke any guard or defence he will try to pull out due to the enormus difference in AP.

I hope it's understandable.

 

[Zefra3011]

also, K feat (frozen bullets), not only isn't on the profiles but it also becomes useless as speed eq exists so ignore it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Voting Yu FRA

 

[Armorchompy]

No, Jean scales higher than K who saw the bullet as frozen for a second due to being in the same realm as Yu passively

K (Sees bullet as frozen for 1 second) << Jean (Is passively in the world where he sees things such as bullets as frozen) < Monster stance (Blitzed Jean) < Yu's reaction (Sees monster stance in slow motion)

The first two are just speed feats, so this is just seeing something capable of blitzing a slower person in slowmo. So just a speed feat.

2) Kiichi has some attacks that are a blitz above his normal combat speed so we starts to talk about "higher attack speed", every The Boxer character has the same "higher attack speed" in fact boxers have to train AnPr in order to evade said attacks as their reaction can't match said punches,

That is nothing special. It's just how boxing works IRL, you can't fully react to an opponent's attacks in close range, and it's absolutely something Kiichi (and like literally every other martial artist in the series) can do as well. It's definitely not a "blitz" by the traditional meaning of the word

if we take Jean he is able to pull out techniques that make him blitz people from 10m away after entering a "real" or "state", call it as you prefer, that allowed him to reach the pinnacle of technique which in The Boxer is some sort of multiplier to your base speed and ap

Yes, but that's just overall combat speed.

Kiichi is able to see his "higher attack speed" in slow motion, Jean can as well, Jean reached a real that other than boosting his technique as I explained earlier also boosts his slow motion, like Yu (Yu's slow motion scales higher than Jean but I'll get to this later, now I just need the explaination), Jean describes it as a dimension where every moment of time is sharp and everything is clear. Here we have both using their techniques and being able to react to their punches which means they are able to see their own Attack Speed in slow motion as to react to these punches you must be capable of it as K explained above when he talked about Yu. So now Jean's slow motion is on pair with Kiichi's one and this is where your scaling chain ends based on what I read.

Yeah but Jean also says he's always in that state, so it isn't an amp, it's just speed.

4) Since Yu wasn't able to hit Jean with his normal "higher Attack Speed", due to Jean's slow motion, he pulled out a specific technique that boosted his speed even more to the point that Jean, even tho he himself was able to do something similar and therefore had a sort of prior knowledge against it, got completely blitzed and didn't even saw the attack starting even tho Yu was several meters away, its also worth to notice that Jean was focusing all on defense. So we have Yu being able to blitz said slow motion (where Kiichi scales unless there is more context that I'm not aware) with this specific attack, to clarify not every attack scales here in speed but only this "Monster Stance".

This one's a legit amp-based blitz, I'll give you that. It's also something a Tough mid-tier can replicate.

5)Ok, now I'll talk where Yu's slow motion scales at. The second time Yu tried to use this specific technique Jean was more prepared and by anticipating it he decided to make a counter in order to hit Yu when he would be too close, so unless Yu dodges it he will get hit, keep in mind Yu isn't aware of this but only notices it after he dashed and yet he was able to react to it (the combination of his own monster stance speed and the speed of Jean's punch) and managed to avoid getting hit which means he sees said speed in slow motion or anyway he is able to react to it at bare minimum.

He scales to it, I definitely don't think there's an argument he's seeing it in slowmo.

So yeah I definitely disagree with Yu blitzing. In fact if this is the reasoning I would go the other way.

Anyways, I'm voting Yu. Kiibo is certainly more skilled but the gap's not that high. I'm not convinced that he's skilled enough to circumvent getting hit once (fight ender). Even a simple graze can be deadly, which can lead into Yu simply blitzing at close range and splattering his brains.

If the AP gap was closer, I'd say Kiibo probably wins. The issue is just that most of the techniques he uses to reduce the potential damage are just unquantifiable with numbers/multipliers.

Kiichi can easily one-shot Yu himself by using pressure points, a shockwave attack or simply grappling, either can end a fight in one hit so I don't think there's much of an advantage on either side there.

 

[azontr]

Kiichi can easily one-shot Yu himself by using pressure points, a shockwave attack or simply grappling, either can end a fight in one hit so I don't think there's much of an advantage on either side there.

I mean, with pressure Points, you have to actually like, press on a point. I don't think he's actually going to move Yu's flesh with any force he could output, unless all he has to do is touch you and shit happens, in which case that's not even pressure Points at all; that's kinda like bio manipulation.

If he gets close enough to grapple that's leaving himself open to a one-shot, and even you yourself agree that shockwaves aren't going to immediately put Yu down.

Yu might be able to take a few since he's so much more durable but they'd do a lot more damage than normal punches still.

Really the best I could see is incon where both Yu and Kiibo have opportunities to end each other.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, with pressure Points, you have to actually like, press on a point. I don't think he's actually going to move Yu's flesh with any force he could output, unless all he has to do is touch you and shit happens, in which case that's not even pressure Points at all; that's kinda like bio manipulation.

I mean, sorta yeah. I'd point to stuff like the "Bosatsuken" or "Bakutanken" on his profile, there's also the "Residual Wave" which is even better because it works at a range. However RW is sort of weird because he (possibly? it's unclear) forgot how to use it but having developed it in a time of need when he would otherwise lose it's fairly likely he'd be able to develop something similar again if pushed against the wall.

If he gets close enough to grapple that's leaving himself open to a one-shot, and even you yourself agree that shockwaves aren't going to immediately put Yu down.

Not really, the entire point of grappling is to close in in a safe way that prevents your opponent from actually landing any proper hits, which Kiichi can do against people who're a trillion times better at grappling than a boxer. Plus honestly with the type of guy he is he doesn't mind at all to break a bone or something if it means he can land a winning shot. As for shockwaves, I dunno. Yu's stamina is very low, even if it doesn't one-shot him directly having his lungs and heart injured could definitely take him out of commission. Kiichi realizing that he's durable enough to tank it anyways would actually allow him to directly transfer AP to the heart/brain if he wants to, also.

It's not always (but it is sometimes) a one-shot worthy gap but Kiichi does fight people way stronger than him literally all the time. Hell he's tanked things that would straight-up kill/hospitalize people stronger than him in one hit through skill, so I don't really think it's true that he gets literally one-shot.