Yu (The Boxer) vs Kiichi Miyazawa [3-5-0]

[azontr]

"Bosatsuken" or "Bakutanken

I mean, neither of these seem to be pressure points. These just seem to be internal damage. Bosatsuken is seemingly just a chest strike, and Bakutanken is... also just a strike that makes people explode internally.

I'm talking about like, actual pressure point abilities. Not life energy transferring heart rupturing ballsack busting spirit blows.

Not really,

(I clipped only this cause I didn't feel like having a text wall on my screen as I typed)

Okay, but, inherently to grab someone you have to get into the range for them to strike you. Unless Kiibo's arms are like a meter or two long, he's gonna have to get within like, a relatively close distance to Yu. Which allows Yu to punch him. Whether or not he could intercept said punch and lead into a grapple was not the point, but rather that simply being in that range opens up for a strike.

And like, unless Kiibo is simultaneously pulling out every speed amp in the book for no reason while grappling, I don't think he's gonna avoid a close-range blow with just pure skill. He'd be literally like an inch away from Yu. To avoid the blow he would have to get out of range.

It's not always (but it is sometimes) a one-shot worthy gap but Kiichi does fight people way stronger than him literally all the time. Hell he's tanked things that would straight-up kill/hospitalize people stronger than him in one hit through skill, so I don't really think it's true that he gets literally one-shot.

I'd ask for clarification on whether or not those gaps were quantifiable or not. A gap of "I got one-shot by this guy" isn't really the same as "this guy is 7 times stronger than me". And unless we've re-evaluated our one-shot standards in that way, I don't think any amount of upscaling really helps you in the face of actual numbers. Do correct me if I'm wrong though, as I imagine you'd be more familiar with our current stance on that than I.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, neither of these seem to be pressure points. These just seem to be internal damage. Bosatsuken is seemingly just a chest strike, and Bakutanken is... also just a strike that makes people explode internally.

I'm talking about like, actual pressure point abilities. Not life energy transferring heart rupturing ballsack busting spirit blows.

Yeah I meant the ballsack bursts, sorry

Okay, but, inherently to grab someone you have to get into the range for them to strike you. Unless Kiibo's arms are like a meter or two long, he's gonna have to get within like, a relatively close distance to Yu. Which allows Yu to punch him. Whether or not he could intercept said punch and lead into a grapple was not the point, but rather that simply being in that range opens up for a strike.

This is true but also true of any H2H interactions.

And like, unless Kiibo is simultaneously pulling out every speed amp in the book for no reason while grappling, I don't think he's gonna avoid a close-range blow with just pure skill. He'd be literally like an inch away from Yu. To avoid the blow he would have to get out of range.

Honestly? No, he definitely has the ability to not get hit while going into a grapple, even disregarding amps. It's literally his entire M.O. Like, look at what he can do off a single dodge. Another example of him dodging a single strike and putting the other guy in a functionally inescapable grapple. Another example. Another example (This one the other guy does counter but that's an incredible feat of its own, and requires LS Yu lacks). Here he does the same thing against a guy who's capable of shifting his punches' direction with superhuman flexibility. Another dodged strike, this time with a submission. Another one. Here he suddenly does it midway through having a striking contest with the other guy. Even if he's completely pinned down he can reverse it into a grapple. Here he hits someone with a flying armbar and has snapped the arm before the other guy can even do anything. This is what he can do just by reacting to a punch properly. Here he just intercepts a movement to leap onto the opponent's back. There's this shit. Here he sweeps an armed opponent off his legs to grapple and here he just catches the arm mid-swing.

I could go on, I just looked through half the respect thread, there's more but I think I've made my point.

I'd ask for clarification on whether or not those gaps were quantifiable or not. A gap of "I got one-shot by this guy" isn't really the same as "this guy is 7 times stronger than me". And unless we've re-evaluated our one-shot standards in that way, I don't think any amount of upscaling really helps you in the face of actual numbers. Do correct me if I'm wrong though, as I imagine you'd be more familiar with our current stance on that than I.

It's not quantifiable for treating it as a multiplier, but we do treat in-verse and out-verse one-shots as roughly equivalent, I believe. There's also the fact that 6.8x is just slightly less than a one-shot, so in terms of disadvantage it's not really different- I'm not claiming he can just tank his attacks but through skill he should be able to redirect some would-be killshots into just doing glancing damage.

 

[Armorchompy]

Something I didn't get into is that essentially literally everything I'm arguing here is done by less skilled versions of Kiichi, he gets stronger through time and especially in the newest series he's kind of insane.

 

[Dinozxd]

Following for now, though I can confidently say that even part 1 Kiichi outskills the hell out of Yu.

 

[Robo432343]

kiichi precogs everything
kiichi fra...

 

[Nikoandretti]

kiichi precogs everything
kiichi fra...

Counted

Voting Yu FRA

Counted

 

[Nikoandretti]

Official vote count is Kiichi 5 votes. Yu 3 votes

 

[Nikoandretti]

Something I didn't get into is that essentially literally everything I'm arguing here is done by less skilled versions of Kiichi, he gets stronger through time and especially in the newest series he's kind of insane.

Not to mention the skill jump he has every timeskip is almost 10 fold it seems. He basically made the rest of the verse fodder besides Garcia 28 by the final part, and Oton definitely is more skilled than Yu.

I mean, sorta yeah. I'd point to stuff like the "Bosatsuken" or "Bakutanken" on his profile, there's also the "Residual Wave" which is even better because it works at a range. However RW is sort of weird because he (possibly? it's unclear) forgot how to use it but having developed it in a time of need when he would otherwise lose it's fairly likely he'd be able to develop something similar again if pushed against the wall.

Not really, the entire point of grappling is to close in in a safe way that prevents your opponent from actually landing any proper hits, which Kiichi can do against people who're a trillion times better at grappling than a boxer. Plus honestly with the type of guy he is he doesn't mind at all to break a bone or something if it means he can land a winning shot. As for shockwaves, I dunno. Yu's stamina is very low, even if it doesn't one-shot him directly having his lungs and heart injured could definitely take him out of commission. Kiichi realizing that he's durable enough to tank it anyways would actually allow him to directly transfer AP to the heart/brain if he wants to, also.

It's not always (but it is sometimes) a one-shot worthy gap but Kiichi does fight people way stronger than him literally all the time. Hell he's tanked things that would straight-up kill/hospitalize people stronger than him in one hit through skill, so I don't really think it's true that he gets literally one-shot.

i agree with all of this and I echo’s this earlier in the thread

 

[Zefra3011]

That is nothing special. It's just how boxing works IRL, you can't fully react to an opponent's attacks in close range, and it's absolutely something Kiichi (and like literally every other martial artist in the series) can do as well. It's definitely not a "blitz" by the traditional meaning of the word

I acknowledged that, my point is that characters can use that "multiplier" to reach superhuman speeds.

Yes, but that's just overall combat speed.

No, it's kind of the same as Yu's Monster Stance, in that life or death situation he entered that "state" and achieved a depper feeling of his body allowing him to achieve techniques that boost his speed, it's not that his speed increased like he entered super sayian, it's literally unlocking new techniques with "higher multiplier", Yu by feeling his body could pull out a blitz amp technique and you acknowledged it, Jean did the same and like Yu who can react/see in slow motion his fastest technique Jean can do the same... on a lower level tho sine Yu is deeper in this "state". Anyway I don't see any difference between this and Kiichi's blitz amp kicks so if you debunk Jean this way then for Kiichi is the same, both things are accepted to have an higher rating and I showed you jean being able to blitz from 10 m, a feat that couldn't pull out without this new technique.

While in this "state" you increase both your technique "multiplier", making your normal techniques faster, but also unlock new technique that are made to optimize your fighting style meaning they have an higher multiplier, like Monster Stance.

Yeah but Jean also says he's always in that state, so it isn't an amp, it's just speed.

see above.

He scales to it, I definitely don't think there's an argument he's seeing it in slowmo.

I acknowledged that there is the possibility that he just scales there in reaction and not outright see it in slow motion but we know Yu actively percieve everything in slow motion so saying it's just normal reaction, basically impling this speed exceeded his slow motion but somehow he still reacted to his speed + Jean's one requires a way bigger assumption than him just percieving that in slow motion like he does with anything. Even narratively his reaction ability is given because he sees everything in slow motion, not because he has good timing or something.

 

[Zefra3011]

Also, can I ask how can Kiichi see attacks in slow motion? it's passive? Or it has an activation?

 

[Armorchompy]

I acknowledged that, my point is that characters can use that "multiplier" to reach superhuman speeds.

It's not a "multiplier", boxer punching speeds are just a bit higher than boxer reaction speeds.

No, it's kind of the same as Yu's Monster Stance, in that life or death situation he entered that "state" and achieved a depper feeling of his body allowing him to achieve techniques that boost his speed, it's not that his speed increased like he entered super sayian, it's literally unlocking new techniques with "higher multiplier", Yu by feeling his body could pull out a blitz amp technique and you acknowledged it, Jean did the same and like Yu who can react/see in slow motion his fastest technique Jean can do the same... on a lower level tho sine Yu is deeper in this "state". Anyway I don't see any difference between this and Kiichi's blitz amp kicks so if you debunk Jean this way then for Kiichi is the same, both things are accepted to have an higher rating and I showed you jean being able to blitz from 10 m, a feat that couldn't pull out without this new technique.

They make it pretty clear it's just him reaching an incredible level of technique, they even compare it to IRL sports examples that are definitely not speed amps. And then there's the guy that says he's been in that state for years permanently. If you're good enough that you can attack and react at X speed, you're X speed.

Kiichi's blitz amp kicks don't scale to his combat speed, he can't punch or think that fast, he's just got really powerful legs (it's a genetic thing) that let him kick that faster than any (in-series) person could.

I acknowledged that there is the possibility that he just scales there in reaction and not outright see it in slow motion but we know Yu actively percieve everything in slow motion so saying it's just normal reaction, basically impling this speed exceeded his slow motion but somehow he still reacted to his speed + Jean's one requires a way bigger assumption than him just percieving that in slow motion like he does with anything. Even narratively his reaction ability is given because he sees everything in slow motion, not because he has good timing or something.

Eehhhhh

Also, can I ask how can Kiichi see attacks in slow motion? it's passive? Or it has an activation?

Activation. It's putting himself in a trance.

Also I just realized all of this doesn't really matter. Yu is rated as slower than Kiichi, and when speed is equal the slower character isn't allowed to win via blitzing.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also I just realized all of this doesn't really matter. Yu is rated as slower than Kiichi, and when speed is equal the slower character isn't allowed to win via blitzing.

Yu is hyper, Kiichi is supersonic+ am i missing something?

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, right, I misread the profile and only saw Subsonic, my bad there

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh, right, I misread the profile and only saw Subsonic, my bad there

Also, Looking at Kiichi's profile, He is only super+ in combat speed

With equal speed, Yu gets reduced to super+ in everything

While Kiichi is still superhuman in everything aside from attack speed and combat speed

Doesn't Yu blitz to oblivion here?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The way i see speed equal is like this;

You are;

30 combat speed
60 reaction speed
20 travel speed

while the opponent is 100 in everything

With speed equal the opponent would be

60 in everything

while you are still

60 reaction speed, 30 combat speed and 20 travel speed

 

[Zefra3011]

It's not a "multiplier", boxer punching speeds are just a bit higher than boxer reaction speeds.

I used that word just to explain the concept and since it's how it is explained within The Boxer, in fact I added "". Sorry if it was misleading,

They make it pretty clear it's just him reaching an incredible level of technique, they even compare it to IRL sports examples that are definitely not speed amps. And then there's the guy that says he's been in that state for years permanently. If you're good enough that you can attack and react at X speed, you're X speed.

Mh no, like Monster Stance for Yu, some techniques scales higher, it depends.

Kiichi's blitz amp kicks don't scale to his combat speed, he can't punch or think that fast, he's just got really powerful legs (it's a genetic thing) that let him kick that faster than any (in-series) person could.

eh, sorry but I don't get how having a technique that scales X and another one that scales a blitz above X (like Jean or Yu) is any different but it seems we just disagree here.

Activation. It's putting himself in a trance.

Then... if he doesn't start with it (?), he will just get blitzed by Monster Stance even without arguing the scaling chian.

Also, Looking at Kiichi's profile, He is only super+ in combat speed

With equal speed, Yu gets reduced to super+ in everything

While Kiichi is still superhuman in everything aside from attack speed and combat speed

Doesn't Yu blitz to oblivion here?

If he doesn't scale in reaction then he would get blitzed? But doesn't combat speed involves both Attack Speed and reaction Speed? Idk



Anyway if Kiichi doesn't start with Slow Motion he just gets blitzed by Monster Stance.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

attack speed gets equalized in speed equal matches

The way i see speed equal is like this;

You are;

30 combat speed
60 reaction speed
20 travel speed

while the opponent is 100 in everything

With speed equal the opponent would be

60 in everything

while you are still

60 reaction speed, 30 combat speed and 20 travel speed

 

[Zefra3011]

it means that if my combat speed is /2 due to speed eq then my reaction is also /2 but if reaction is higher it is still higher, it just get reduced tho, they don't get equilized to be = with the opponent, only combat speed does.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, Doesn't Yu start with monster stance? He is naturally bloodlusted in this key i believe

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yu didn't start with monster stance against Aaron

J?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

"Standard tactics: Now opts to finish all of his fights without playing around, and as he is, unless stated by the OP, unrestricted by the rules of a boxing match, he will most likely opt to severely injure or even kill his opponent."

 

[Zefra3011]

Yu didn't start with monster stance against Aaron

Yu's starting move depends on the context, against most of the characters K tells him to play around. When Yu went against the heavyweights he just dashed and one shotted everyone. Against some random guys with guns he disarmed one and straight up wanted to killed them. It depends but if he is willing to kill... he will just go for the kill relatively soon.

 

[Nikoandretti]

It's not a "multiplier", boxer punching speeds are just a bit higher than boxer reaction speeds.

They make it pretty clear it's just him reaching an incredible level of technique, they even compare it to IRL sports examples that are definitely not speed amps. And then there's the guy that says he's been in that state for years permanently. If you're good enough that you can attack and react at X speed, you're X speed.

Kiichi's blitz amp kicks don't scale to his combat speed, he can't punch or think that fast, he's just got really powerful legs (it's a genetic thing) that let him kick that faster than any (in-series) person could.

Eehhhhh

Activation. It's putting himself in a trance.

Also I just realized all of this doesn't really matter. Yu is rated as slower than Kiichi, and when speed is equal the slower character isn't allowed to win via blitzing.

Saving this comment for later threads. It’s so many people who believe slower characters can blitz characters scaled faster than them

 

[Nikoandretti]

Also, Looking at Kiichi's profile, He is only super+ in combat speed

With equal speed, Yu gets reduced to super+ in everything

While Kiichi is still superhuman in everything aside from attack speed and combat speed

Doesn't Yu blitz to oblivion here?

Kiichi actually scales to high hypersonic+ from the oton sniper rifle feat

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Kiichi actually scales to high hypersonic+ from the oton sniper rifle feat

Not on the profile

 

[Nikoandretti]

Not on the profile

That can be changed quickly. The profiles honestly are outdated and missing many calcs. The verse should be small building too

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That can be changed quickly. The profiles honestly are outdated and missing many calcs. The verse should be small building too

Not on the profile, Therefore you will use what's currently accepted

 

[Nikoandretti]

Not on the profile, Therefore you will use what's currently accepted

You pick and choose when this applies because you dismissed this in the koji vs Connor thread.

 

[Zefra3011]

That can be changed quickly. The profiles honestly are outdated and missing many calcs. The verse should be small building too

You have to make a CRT and get the changes approved. You can stop this vs in the while.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You pick and choose when this applies because you dismissed this in the koji vs Connor thread.

Me and Reggor already showed you proof on why he can (He also has the ability on his profile)

You did not refute nor did you debunk it, I also recommend you don't bring smth that doesn't concern this match

 

[Armorchompy]

The High Hypersonic and Small Building calcs are from untranslated parts of the manga, so they haven't been applied because we don't know who'd scale to them. They are legit but definitely should not be used for arguments until they do get applied, though.

 

[Armorchompy]

I used that word just to explain the concept and since it's how it is explained within The Boxer, in fact I added "". Sorry if it was misleading,

Fair enough, but if anything that implies Kiichi's perception speed is higher in base given he can dodge punches from comparable opponents just fine.

Mh no, like Monster Stance for Yu, some techniques scales higher, it depends.

Some, sure, but I wouldn't assume unless shown and so far just Monster Stance is that.

eh, sorry but I don't get how having a technique that scales X and another one that scales a blitz above X (like Jean or Yu) is any different but it seems we just disagree here.

Again, Kiichi is supersonic, it's not even a technique it's just that he's got freaky ass legs that let him kick at supersonic+ speeds. It's like if

Then... if he doesn't start with it (?), he will just get blitzed by Monster Stance even without arguing the scaling chian.

He does not, no. I would ask for scans that he will start with it against an opponent he does not know.

Anyway if Kiichi doesn't start with Slow Motion he just gets blitzed by Monster Stance.

I don't really think that's true. At his skill level Kiichi can fight people who view him in slow motion just through sheer skill alone, and even if Yu does manage to KO him, that'll just put him in Sky Eye mode and that's when the precog + slowmo comes out.

I'd like to ask you to elaborate on how exactly Monster Stance works. If it's a stance I would expect certain types of attacks to be associated with it, and looking at the few scans on the profiles it seems to be restricted to just wild haymakers.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I don't really think that's true. At his skill level Kiichi can fight people who view him in slow motion just through sheer skill alone, and even if Yu does manage to KO him, that'll just put him in Sky Eye mode and that's when the precog + slowmo comes out.

Yu attacks the heart and kills him

 

[Armorchompy]

nuh uh

 

[XxZetsuxX]

nuh uh

Yuh uh

Here

 

[Zefra3011]

I would ask for scans that he will start with it against an opponent he does not know.

As I said above:

Yu's starting move depends on the context, against most of the characters K tells him to play around. When Yu went against the heavyweights he just dashed and one shotted everyone. Against some random guys with guns he disarmed one and straight up wanted to killed them. It depends but if he is willing to kill... he will just go for the kill relatively soon.

So I can't prove 100% he will start with it but I assume Yu is in-character so he has no problem to go for the kill, he might not start with it but just as he did against Jean if he notice his attacks won't land he will pull it out.

Here there are scans that he goes for the KO right away. Can't say for sure if it's monster stance or not but at least it shows he is willing to end as soon as possible which would imply using Monster Stance relatively fast if he needs to.

I'd like to ask you to elaborate on how exactly Monster Stance works. If it's a stance I would expect certain types of attacks to be associated with it, and looking at the few scans on the profiles it seems to be restricted to just wild haymakers.

Mmm... It's simply Yu performing a type of technique that perfectly fits him which boost his speed and ap, that's how it works. In practise he just make a pose that breifly expose him, as jean mentions, and after he dashes at tremendous speed to hit the opponent, against Jean he is shown to only being able to throw one punch but after he is able to throw 3 punches targetting the upper body, against Takeda he even shows to not really need to make the pose he made against Jean and can just pull it out more less when he wants, even right after dashing back (scans). That's kind of it.

Fair enough, but if anything that implies Kiichi's perception speed is higher in base given he can dodge punches from comparable opponents just fine.

not sure if I missunderstood but this doesn't mean his reaction is above Yu's one as Yu can also dodge said punches thanks his slow motion. It's just that other boxers can't, Yu, Jean and another character are the only one who can react.

Some, sure, but I wouldn't assume unless shown and so far just Monster Stance is that.

I see what you mean but I believe Jean's one is the same as monster stance... just on a lower degree but the overall concept is the same.

Both can be summarized in a Blitz worth dash.

Both require a similar pose.

Jean even mentioned "thanks at the new me I know..." which implies he already experienced said technique and he could detect it from Yu's pose alone since, as I showed above, they have a similar pose; Yu just did it better since he is deeper in the state that allowed Jean to make it.

Jean before entering the state and using the technique thought he would have died which means he couldn't do it without that technique.


I believe this technique indeed is a blitz above his attacks and work like Monster Stance but on a lower level.

I don't really think that's true. At his skill level Kiichi can fight people who view him in slow motion just through sheer skill alone,

Isn't the context Kiichi being able to hit him beacuse he looked away (for some reason)?

and even if Yu does manage to KO him, that'll just put him in Sky Eye mode and that's when the precog + slowmo comes out.

I mean, assuming he can stand up again. I get he can reduce damage but... I remind that Yu can one shot characters who are x7 above Kiichi. Does he have some kind of OP Supernatural Willpower?

 

[Armorchompy]

So I can't prove 100% he will start with it but I assume Yu is in-character so he has no problem to go for the kill, he might not start with it but just as he did against Jean if he notice his attacks won't land he will pull it out.

Here there are scans that he goes for the KO right away. Can't say for sure if it's monster stance or not but at least it shows he is willing to end as soon as possible which would imply using Monster Stance relatively fast if he needs to.

Fair enough, but I'd say that's more or less true of Kiichi too (especially when his life is in danger, which he thinks by SBA) and Kiichi does have one-shot techniques of his own.

Mmm... It's simply Yu performing a type of technique that perfectly fits him which boost his speed and ap, that's how it works. In practise he just make a pose that breifly expose him, as jean mentions, and after he dashes at tremendous speed to hit the opponent, against Jean he is shown to only being able to throw one punch but after he is able to throw 3 punches targetting the upper body, against Takeda he even shows to not really need to make the pose he made against Jean and can just pull it out more less when he wants, even right after dashing back (scans). That's kind of it.

Honestly to me it looks like he needs to get some runway, every time it's done he starts a few meters away and runs up to the other guy, last scan the other person even says he needs to close in (potentially to prevent it?). I'm probably just saying bullshit here tho

not sure if I missunderstood but this doesn't mean his reaction is above Yu's one as Yu can also dodge said punches thanks his slow motion. It's just that other boxers can't, Yu, Jean and another character are the only one who can react.

Better than normal boxers, yeah, not Yu.

I believe this technique indeed is a blitz above his attacks and work like Monster Stance but on a lower level.

I'm just gonna like, go over my problems again with the entire reasoning, there are pretty big inconsistencies with the whole thing. (From what I have seen ofc)

1. So first off, Jean being able to blitz someone with that kind of tackle doesn't necessarily mean he's boosting his own speed, rather he's just entering a new level of speed that he was previously unable to reach. I may be wrong but I don't think you actually have any evidence of him not being capable of entering that speed at will after the event, and it's explicitly stated that this is "awakening" an overall boost to technique, not just a special move. It's describe as a "trascendental cognitive ability", which strongly implies it's just an overall boost (to skill and reaction time). Nothing in your last post really implies otherwise IMO.
2. The very statement that Yu "lives in a different dimension of time" outright states that his own "amp", which is already halfway through the blitz chain you laid out, is not something he needs to activate, but something that is always passive with him. You, after all, do not "live" in a state that you need to willingly enter, because the very act of doing so would imply that you are normally outside of it. It's even stated that he has "lived" in this state for quite some time, which also lays credence to the theory that it's just his level of overall speed.
3. Monster Stance is definitely a speed amp, however since, by your own words "Jean was more prepared and by anticipating it" could react to it, it's not blitz-worthy. By definition, if you can react to something, it's not blitzing you. I understand he timed it ahead of time but that still wouldn't be possible if it happened in a blitz-worthy interval of time. If I had to assume it was at least partially surprise at said speed, and for the rest actual speed.
4. I doesn't make sense to say Yu's reactions are at a blitz-worthy level above Jean's, if you're also claiming that he and Yu were fighting on equal grounds before Yu busted out the Monster Stance, if he could perceive things that fast all the time he would have a massive edge in that fight even before amping his own speed to superior levels.

Isn't the context Kiichi being able to hit him beacuse he looked away (for some reason)?

Yeah, sort of. It's part of the guy's fighting style. To be honest I don't really get it, I think it's meant to throw him off. Regardless he can at least anticipate and react to attacks from people much faster than him, it's the countering part that requires the weird context.

Btw something worth noting is that Kiichi actually does have enhanced senses which help him a lot with reacting to fast attacks.

I mean, assuming he can stand up again. I get he can reduce damage but... I remind that Yu can one shot characters who are x7 above Kiichi. Does he have some kind of OP Supernatural Willpower?

Yeah. When I said KO him, I meant he literally fights unconscious after being knocked out and he fights better in that state, and that's part of the basis for Sky Eye, he needs to be near death to do that (I think I said it was activated before, in that case I apologize, I got it wrong if I did, I only remembered this scan now but that is a limitation of the technique). There's also several instances of him being KO'd and just getting back up, multiple times in a single fight even.

 

[azontr]

Honestly to me it looks like he needs to get some runway, every time it's done he starts a few meters away and runs up to the other guy

Not necessarily true, as he can perform the same stance without having to massively lean forward and charge at his opponent.

"Jean was more prepared and by anticipating it" could react to it, it's not blitz-worthy.

Would this not just be a feat for Jean?? He straight up says he couldn't see anything the first time it was used. Him being able to then react to it would either mean he got faster (unlikely), or he just has the skill necessary to counter blitz-worthy attacks.

Will respond to your post that was specifically targeted to me in a bit, I'm just very tired and figured I would address some smaller bits of misinformation before I tackled a bigger argument.

 

[Armorchompy]

Not necessarily true, as he can perform the same stance without having to massively lean forward and charge at his opponent.

Eh fair

Would this not just be a feat for Jean?? He straight up says he couldn't see anything the first time it was used. Him being able to then react to it would either mean he got faster (unlikely), or he just has the skill necessary to counter blitz-worthy attacks.

You can't counter something that goes so fast you cannot at all see it, that's not how it works. And if he was able to counter Yu's attacks at such a massive disadvantage he'd have been beating his ass when they were speed equal.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You can't counter something that goes so fast you cannot at all see it, that's not how it works. And if he was able to counter Yu's attacks at such a massive disadvantage he'd have been beating his ass when they were speed equal.

High level analytical prediction helps with this though