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Yu-Gi-Oh! Tiering

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@Rapid

I would say avoid scaling anything that is a massive outlier or outside of the same game (ex: No scaling the god's to cards outside of the anime, and no scaling that Multi-solar system level 2 tuner to normal monsters)
 
Well, the thing is, Some of the abilities shown in dark games in the anime and sometimes manga directly rely on DM Game Mechanics, some of those feats are already on my initial post.

For example, Shining Dragon can use its effects irl and destroy the other player as a "monster" card in the Pyramid of Light Novel, which is canon to the anime.


So yeah, i dont wanna claim a massive upgrade just based on ATK points and DEF points, but a somewhat reasonable scale would be nice to have.
 
A reasonable scale IMO can be done, but that's a thread for another time.

As for game mechanica, I've always had trouble just witing off as that. Even destruction effects can be classified under One Hit Kill and things like card types are canonically a difference in a cards "essence," meaning it's definitely not completely game mechanics. Furthermore, we have other profiles with similar things like Bakuga, but they aren't filed under that.
 
Ok change of plan honestly. Its apparent Kukui wont have time to debate much, the massive amount of time that has already been used up, and there is likely a lot to discuss, so I feel like only one final post should be made on each side (Given that we probably know each others arguments well, we could probably make counterarguments within the argument anyways)
 
Indeed.

Thing is, being able to use a Monster Effect irl would scale to the other "Game Mechanics" in Duel Monsters in the anime. (Magic and Trap cards) That would give Millenium Item users (Because it is known that Dark Games do make the monsters "real" as sourced above, and the Pyramid of Light novel.) access to some insta kills (Magical Knives) and some other hax.
 
SomebodyData said:
Ok change of plan honestly. Its apparent Kukui wont have time to debate much, the massive amount of time that has already been used up, and there is likely a lot to discuss, so I feel like only one final post should be made on each side (Given that we probably know each others arguments well, we could probably make counterarguments within the argument anyways)
Click to expand...
In that case, I thing I'll relegate my stuff to my wall or something. I don't want to organize another thread, but more input would be good.
 
You mind if we do that later? We are kinda covering a lot of info
 
It would be cool using monster effects as hax, though probably unreliable.

I mean, banishing/remove things from play, nullifying effects etch.
 
DMB 1 said:
It would be cool using monster effects as hax, though probably unreliable.
I mean, banishing/remove things from play, nullifying effects etch.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like I said, it's easy to quantify, and very few times are the cards ever actually constrained by the game. It's fine within reason. No "You instantly win the game," but stuff ike destruction is just one hit kill and negation is self-explanatory.
 
Yobobojojo said:
DMB 1 said:
It would be cool using monster effects as hax, though probably unreliable.
I mean, banishing/remove things from play, nullifying effects etch.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like I said, it's easy to quantify, and very few times are the cards ever actually constrained by the game. It's fine within reason. No "You instantly win the game," but stuff ike destruction is just one hit kill and negation is self-explanatory.
Click to expand...
Well, I mean:

Destruction via Attack: sheer Ap attacking, nothing special.

Destruction via effect: One Hit Kill

Banishing/Removing from Play: Existence Erasure

Retrunging something to the hand or deck: BFR

Amplyfying/reducing attack: Statistics Amplification and Reduction

Negating an effect: Negation

Nullyfying effects in general: Power Nullification

Summoning via an effect: Summoning

Nullyfying an attack: Forcefield Creation or Power Nullification

Coming back from the Graveyard: Resurrection or Necromancy

Sending something directly to the Graveyard (without destroying it): Death Manipulation

And so on. It's kind of what I imagine some mechanics would be if they were hax.
 
What about "can't be destroyed by battle" or "if this card is about to get destroyed by battle or card effect, detach an Xyz material" or something?

Maybe I'm looking too deeply in game mechanics, but I'd like to know what it could correspond to.
 
Things like Mirror Force and Magic Cylinder are Attack Reflection.

And there are other cards like Draining Shield that converts damage into extra life points, which would probably Attack Absorbtion.
 
And both Arc V and Pyramid of Light support it.

Now, if an opponent (in a vs battle) can resist being power nullyfied, then you can assume the opponent's effects cannot be negated as a Monster.
 
Nothing seems to be happening here.
 
Kukui is the most anti-upgrade here, i think.

We are just discussing minor stuff until the important stuff gets discussed (Tiering, mostly.)
 
Kukui won't be here for a very long time due to family issues. I'd recommend maybe unfollowing until the debate starts in the other proposed thread. @Antvasima.

@Rapid I've been meaning to ask, but what Arc-V stuff? Also, I've been told that the 5-A calc had forgotten about the moon's initial speed (Which means the result would increase) but also the timeframe was inaccurate (Which means the result would decrease). I've been thinking about recalcing the feat, but not sure if we would want to do it now, or afterward.
 
I subscribe to the staff forum in its entirety, so I cannot unfollow this thread alone.
 
Ah I see, even though it has been changed to general discussion?
 
It has? Well, then it should work.
 
I'm tired about arguing about the Zorc feat, I spent a good few hours about it last night, so i'm going to be brief.

The problem he had with it was a problem relating with his misunderstanding of how these calcs work. I found the distance the moon moved in a scene without cuts so I didn't have to worry about cinematic timing messing it all up.
 
Uh... I'm guessing there is more to that? Because making a new summoning method and the game being forced to implement it is not evidence that the effects become real.

That said, Anime Yugi having luck manipulation is something I can get behind.
 
Actually that reminds me, have you guys been following the Arc-V manga recently? I've heard something happens there that has major implications for the canon, but haven't had time to check it out yet.
 
Arc V could be Canon to Manga Yugioh imo.


Arc V Anime has statues of legendary monsters, which include some from Yugi and Jaden, so it must take place after those.


And, implementing a new summoning method implies that the monsters are above the game, and thus, their abilities shown in the game shouldnt be restricted by it.
 
Hold up, when I said anime, I meant anime timeline, the GX manga and Arc-V manga both are different tellings of the GX and Arc-V anime respectively.
 
Well, this thread focuses on Yugi Muto, but i can open another thread to focus on how the anime timeline and manga timeline are and who scales to who.
 
Maybe for another time. Though the implications could be disastrous, at least scaling wise.
 
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