• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Yu-Gi-Oh Content Revision.

@Prana Aigami

That's all reasonable. I may have to watch the arc where and when that happened, just to be sure.

Ask for Yuya, although he and the other Yu-boys are vessels and not reincarnations, considering he still has his deck and spirit (prior to being transferred to Reira) and think the scaling is still valid just needs a better clarification with his relationship with Zarc. If not, I still trust your judgement.
 
@Dino

Agreed. A better clarification would solve the issue.

I'm not questioning Zarc-Yuya's abilities (he's simply Zarc reborn using Yuya's body as a basis). I just think it should be made clear that Zarc-Yuya is not a powerup for Yuya himself (in the sense that he can't call upon it at will etc) as he's no longer in control while in that state. That could be accomplished by either splitting the profiles or making a note in whichever of the profiles sticks around.
 
So, to summarise, what statistics changes are being suggested here, and why?
 
I would like to point out something. Some people say (on this thread and one this on: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/647534) sacred beast (sangenma in the original version) have no link with egyptian gods (sangenshin in the original version) and therefore sacred beasts cannot be scaled from gods (and of course that would mean Yubel cannot be scaled from sacred beasts). Those people just watched 4kids' version (where indeed there's no link between them) and didn't read my long post where Yubel's stats are justified.

I took screenshots where it was stated that sacred beasts (btw: we should create a profile for them too) were as strong as egyptian gods:

http://www.imagebam.com/image/0ba228502732204

http://www.imagebam.com/image/7b1032502732213 ("phantom demons" and "divine gods" refer to sacred beasts and egyptian gods).

Also why should we treat the 12 dimensiosn as 12 universes?

Simply because the "human world" where Judai and his friends are living is based on our universe because there are references from our world such as the Eiffel Tower for example ... not to mention it has countless planets and stars just like in our universe.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/3883af502731434

http://www.imagebam.com/image/e987c8502731436

http://www.imagebam.com/image/be117e502731439


And on Dr. Albert Zweinstein's computer it is possible to see 12 green squares that have the same size (each of them represents a dimension). And Also, Misawa Daichi (Bastion) refers to them as "parallel words" which shows they have the same size: http://www.imagebam.com/image/444664502731395

It should be noted those dimensions are not in the same space-time and are clearly separate because you need to teleport or open a dimensional gate (or something similar) to travel between dimensions. Considering the HUGE number of time the 12 dimensions (or "other words/universes) were mentioned it makes perfect sense for Yubel to stay tier 2-C http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/l8rbsaot4g0xtueklu54r1yvjf83eexz
 
@Jeune

Yubel is still labelled 2-C via reality warping. The issue isn't the feat itself but rather how she was able to do it.

Ask for the Sacred Beasts, they are already labelled in being as strong as the Egyptian Gods on her profile in the Feats section, though I suppose we can make profiles on them.
 
It is true she needed to use 12 fusion materials (12 monsters to fuse) during the duel against Judai, so perhaps she should still stay 2 - C but we should precise she needs prep.

Fortunately for her she can still fuse with her opponent for example.

Ah and about sacred beasts, perhaps we could add screenshots so everyone can see they're stated to be as strong as egyptian gods. Also in season 1 of yu gi oh gx they have a "planetary feat": they were not "about to destroy the planet" or something but ... they were able to absorb the energy of all duel monster spirits on Earth.

Now that I think about it, there's a fusion between the 3 sacred beasts (him: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Armityle_the_Chaos_Phantom) who can logically be scaled from: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Creator_of_Light
 
there are plenty of characters who deserve a profile. I'm thinking of Darkness (nightshroud in 4kids' version) who's basically a character who saw how the universe was created, who mind manipulated the entire humanity via his army of Trueman (and kept all those who were mind manipulated in the world of Darkness where they were mentally tortured) ... that's simple: Judai was the only one who wasn't mind manipulated thanks to Yubel's powers.


He also started to invade the 12 dimensions in the same time, and he cannot be completely defeated unless darkness completely disappear from humans' hearts. He has a full control over his word (the world of darkness which is not one of the 12 dimension but a completely different thing) etc ...


There's also chaos number 96 (zexal) who could fuse the human world, the barian world and the astral world


and there are many others. When you look closely Yu-gi-oh! is full of very powerful characters.
 
@antvasima

In short:

Yubel- The steps required to perform the merging/destruction of the 12 Dimensions should be added to her profile (fusing 12 monsters ranging from levels 1 to 12) , for the planetary rating , the focus should be placed on the scaling she gets to Exodia ( even while in a weakened state actually) as opposed to focusing on the Mythic Demons (though they do bring a few things to the table themselves)

Jack and Yusei- While the scale of the abilities is not wrong , the Clear Mind variants and Burning Soul are not power-ups that can be called upon at will , they are abilities that can only be activated under specific conditions (a clear mind free of fear , belief in one's self , achieving high speed while having access to a source of Momentum and an Accel Synchro/Delta Accel Synchro/Limit Over Accel Synchro card for the former and a passionate heart and the intervention of the Crimson Dragon for the latter) , they're also short duration (almost single action) as opposed to a lasting augmentation.

Kaiba and Marik:They can't call upon the true power of the Egyptian Gods or the Blue-Eyes variants (have never exhibited that ability and there's a ton to suggest they can't , how the missiles launched from the satellite in the Virtual World arc were a threat to them for example) and as such are not planetary (Kaiba fighting off Zorc took place in the world of the Pharaoh's memories and was a result of said world's nature , it's not something he can replicate in a neutral battleground)

Zexal: A more complete description of the cosmology should be added for starters ( Astral world , Barian world , human universe , the dimensional void of Sargasso , the dimensional void where Yuma had his final duel with Alit-contains a star filled sky and such ,the dimensional void Yuma travelled when going to Astral World , the one where they had the final face off with Black Mist etc). The Numeron Dragon and Code are fine (though again , a more accurate cosmology description should be added) but the rest need an overhaul as they're generally inaccurate (barring Dyson Sphere whose feats begin and end with being a Dyson Sphere)

Zarc-should either be split from Yuya's profile or at least have a note pertaining to him not being a power-up for Yuya but rather a posessing spirit using Yuya as a vessel added (their souls are separate and Yuya is not in control when Zarc is active)

@Jeune fou

Agreed about the Mythic Demon's spirit draining feat (there's a couple other things such as environmental effects to add as well) and the 12 Dimensions , can't comment on Darkness as I haven't re-watched the final season of GX yet. That said:

The comparison between the Mythic Demons and Egyptian Gods....are you talking about the one Jim makes while in the first alternate dimension ? If so , I'm not sure that can be used to make any accurate power comparisons. For one , Jim was likely talking about their abilities as cards not their actual power (similarly to how Zushin was compared to them in 5DS) and even if that was not the case , Jim has never laid eyes on the God Cards or the Mythic Demons at that point in time as far as we know , so (even if we assume the Eye Of Orichalcum would allow him to gauge their power) he's most likely just repeating rumors.

Number 96 wasn't going to merge the three worlds , he was going to destroy them. In particular Black Mist was attacking the Astral World in a similar manner to how Haruto was attacking it in the first season but in Black Mist's case the assault was also harmfully affecting the Barian World and the human universe (causing disasters across them) and it was stated that this was going to eventually destroy all three worlds if it wasn't stopped.
 
@Prana Okay. I suppose that seems reasonable. However, I would prefer to see more staff input regarding the issue.
 
Wait hold up here as I noticed something about how my brother being involved in this.

So the only problem is the assumption that the dimensions are universe sized in Yugioh GX going by what my older brother said here. I think it implies there may have inconsistencies with the statements/mistranslations in the anime. In addition with the problem, saying that Yubel seperate a dimension into twelve universe sized dimensions does make it very vague as well.

Edit: 2-C is being insisted by Jeanue Fou so I can see that one being accepted.

Edit 2: It is very confusing to know what exactly is true or what is not true here.
 
Actually I just realized this but I dont remember if it was answered.

Are each of the 12 dimensions separate space-times? And if so evidence? Because the only way its even 2-C is if they are separate space-times otherwise it can go from 3-A to Low 2-C.
 
Not so sure as even my older brother say each dimensions having their own separate space-time continnum doesn't instantly mean it will be straight 2-C without knowing the size being stated or isn't exactly accurate from what I remember what he has say about it.

Edit: In addition with Bastion saying about how the 12 dimensions used to be one world further make Yugioh GX Cosmology confusing.

Edit 2: This mean the world is just a "world" so you see that Bastion say the words "dimensions" and "world" seperate from one another in the scan posted here. The later statements from other GX characters created a inconsistency when being stated by Prana about Season 3 and 4 so I don't think it will have help as much as it is.
 
Actually after looking over all the evidence, there is no true statements of it being seperate space time for the twelve dimensions. I think someone is misleading the info here a bit if anything.
 
@ProfessorKukui

I believe so. I'm not that familar with GX's last season, mainly because it didn't air in my region but I believe each dimension is a seperated world of it's own from my brief revision.
 
Well my older brother (Namely EnderShadowr215 formerly known as StarKiller215) mentioned the possibility of inconsistencies with the respective statements made by the respective Yugioh GX characters from Season 3 and 4 so the size of the 12 dimensions is actually universal sized or not will be contradicted by what Bastion say earlier as well.

Also is there actual hints that the dimensions are separate universed sized space time continuums?

Admittedly the mess made here by my older brother is putting this into question as well.
 
@Antvasima

Ok than , again , I can provide episode numbers and time stamps should they be required.

@Pokemon Trainer

Real Solid Vision can produce real effects , Yuya's is no different. The best feat for Yuya's monsters in particular is probably the 4 dragons tearing through the Original Dimension's military while shrugging off attempts at a counterattack-an attribute of Real Solid Vision constructs in general (this took place while they were under Zarc's control but they're still the same cards being materialized by the same tech made by the same man) as well as the stuff Raging Dragon pulled (melting through metal , pillars etc with his wings , blasting through the Academia outer wall alongside the interior wall of the Doktor's lab which was made of metal if I recall correctly etc)

@Sans

All these points have already been covered , just look at the posts above in this very thread. To recap briefly the word universe is repeatedly used (including in it's pural form of universes) , Dark World's sky is filled with stars , Yubel says she'll destroy everything , and the human universe (which is essentially based in part on our own since locations such as Venice are present) is clearly affected by the whole process.

Misawa never said the 12 dimensions used to be one world , his exact quote is "This world has been divided into 12 dimensions" (no where is a continuity of events where there was originally one dimension that was split into 12 at a later point indicated) , it's akin to Yubel's own quote So I than made up my mind. I would try and fill the whole universe , which is split into 12 dimensions , with my love towards you , Judai.

Furthermore , as I pointed out above , the word "world" doesn't necessarily indicate a single dimension , it can indicate anything from a planet to a dimension to multiple dimensions depending on the context of it's use. The context here (all of the above , as well as the point in the very next paragraph) makes makes it clear a single dimension split into 12 pieces is not what we're talking about.

This is the sole new point that I can see. The 12 Dimension's spacetime is almost definitely separate as: a) they operate based on quantum mechanics , their representation on Dr.Zweinstein's machinery is 12 separate squares as opposed to a single big one and c) you need a dimensional distortion to travel between the dimensions ,in fact Dr.Zweinstein says the following:

GX Episode 126 15:42-15:56

Misawa: But how are you sending this transmission ?

Dr.Zweinstein: In the gap between our dimension and the dimension you're all in , we've found a distortion. I'm sending this transmission to you through that distortion.

There's some more pertinent stuff afterwards about how the distortion is small and needs to be widened for Rainbow Dragon (the key to returning Academia to the human world) to be sent through , but the above should sufice. Transportation between the dimensions , or even communication , takes dimensional distortions/portals , it is not something that can be achieved the same way that you would travel to space or communicate with someone who is there. Furthermore , the dimensions can't be the same whole as there is a gap between them.

Finally , as I said to Starkiller/Ender , I don't know japanese so I can't help with gauging translation accuracy (all I can confirm is that the word universe was used repeatedly because the japanese word used is "uchou"). I'm going off the assumption the translated text is , in the least , for the most part accurate and doesn't contain gross inaccuracies that would alter the basics of the plot.

That said . while I personally find the possibility of there being mistranslations gross enough to distort the very basics of the plot rather unlikely (these translations have been around for over 10 years now and have shaped the discussions about GX for as long , the dub agrees with them and it's not like we're talking about some side-episode here , the merging of the 12 dimensions is literally the main plot point of the climax of season 3 ,if the translations were wrong to this extent someone would have noticed) , more detailed understanding of the source material is always a good thing.

@Antvasima

Are there any people on the site reliably good in japanese that we could talk to about this ?
 
@Prana Even so, if the statements made by GX characters are exactly in the respective episodes, the fact that Bastion say "world" and "dimensions" make in this context. In addition we talking about both Eng Dub and Eng subs so I fail to see how the original episodes of Yugioh GX translated from Japanese to English may have misrepresented or misinterpreted as a unlikely possibility as it ain't a possibility that should be overlooked.
 
@Sans

Can you clarify ? The fact that Bastion/Misawa says world and dimensions means what in what context ?

I mentioned the dub because even though it takes many liberties , these particular plot points seem unaltered between the two versions (again suggesting they are not owed to gross mistranslation or dub original).This is by no means 100% of course , the dub does take liberties.

Never said the possibility should be overlooked , that's why I asked about people who are good enough in japanese to help us translate.
 
@Prana It was mostly singular. Also Yubel mentioned the "Universe" at least twice going what say here in singular.

Yet some of the quotes from the following Yugioh GX episodes mentioned "dimensional universes" and stuff like that. That is the thing I don't get exactly as how the statements doesn't seem to agree with one another at all.


Edit: I don't see how someone or something can make 12 dimensions in a single day either especially so we don't know the origins or how they came into existence as well.
 
@Sans

For Misawa's quote , It doesn't mean much of anything by itself , the word "world" can indicate a variety of different things as I said above.

For Yubel's quotes though.... yeah , that is a bit of a headscratcher. If those quotes were all there was to it , I'd guess that this was due to Yubel essentially speaking of reality being split into 12 dimensions (universe simply means the entirety of time-space and it's contents so it can be used to refer to multiple "space-time bubbles" as well , the word multiverse is often used for discrete space-time continuums but that's optional and mostly for ease of use) but Yubel later speaks of "universes" plural , suggesting that the implementation of the word universe to refer to a particular bubble of space-time (as opposed to using it to refer to it's entirety) is in use.

That is a contradiction (it should be noted that even with the contradiction , the 12 dimensions are still referred to as "universes" regardless). That said I'm not sure the overall result changes ? We're still talking about separate space-time bubbles as indicated by the mechanics for travel/communication between dimensions and the existence of gaps between said dimensions (Dr.Zweinstein's quotes) , the human universe is still part of this group of dimensions (it's affected by the merge , same as the others) and all indications of the various dimension's size remain (the star filled sky , the representations equal in size to that of the human universe and to each other , how the human universe is clearly affected , the reference to quantum mechanics applying to the dimensions) , Yubel still says she'll destroy everything and so on.

I will acknowledge that the aforementioned contradiction makes things a tad confusing and the translation somewhat suspect (thus offering more justification for a translation check) , but assuming the translations are indeed correct , the difference remains mostly academic from what I can tell (we're primarily interested in the number of "space-time bubbles" and their size after all , if those can be determined than everything else is secondary).

Good point though , I can only hope we can get a translator soon.

EDIT: Speaking of the origin of the world and such , I believe Darkness says some things about it during his duel with Judai in the final season , I'll continue on to the final season to see if anything said there helps ( it's only 25 episodes , shouldn't take long).
 
@Prana Okay I suppose waiting for a week or so will do. Putting the note about the respective contradiction of the quotes will actually make some people doubts about the solidified 2-C part for Yubel and Jaden, but that was covered by how it will only be prep time from the ways it look like. I mean all the scans regarding Yugioh GX cosmology that is linked here kinda make it obviously it will change the results from a 2-C to a Low 2-C TBH.

Edit: Also if there is a contradiction in statements from other GX characters in the anime, then it will cast further doubts on how it was handled too.
 
@Sans

That (the change in rating I mean) will only take place if it turns out we're talking about a single space-time bubble as opposed to many different ones though ? And from what I can tell that can only be the case if it turns out mistranslations are present , the contradiction in question doesn't nullify all the other quotes and plot points pertaining to the matter after all (separate space-time bubbles , size etc) .

The change in tier is by no means obvious or a given as the only thing there is to make the result non-conclusive is the contradiction in quotes by Yubel which doesn't point to there being only one space-time bubble to begin with (the end result of the contradiction is neutral in regards to supporting an interpretation as though Yubel makes use of the word "universe" in it's singular form initially , she also uses it in it's plural form of "universes" later , so the quotes alone can't be used to say she's clearly talking about either).Unless you're aware of additional points pointing to a single space-time bubble/"universe" being the more valid interpretation ?

That a specific process needs to be followed for the effect to take place is a given though.
 
@Prana Well the interpretation with the seperate time space "bubble" will warrant a 2-C rating, but at the same time assuming the space time isn't interconnected to one another make the results to be a bit different. In addition the fact we are using a computer model (Shown in one of the Yugioh GX Season 3 episodes) for the Yugioh GX anime kinda make me wonder how does cosmology will works in this case.

Edit: Talking about inconsistencies, I will admit it has been a bit weird at least.
 
anyway yeah dimensions are clearly 12 separated universes because one needs to teleport there (it is not like DBS where you can access each universe without teleportation).

Also hum ... I think I'll have to watch season 1 of gx again to see if there are statements about sacred beasts being comparable to egyptian gods (I mainly focused on season 3 and 4 to search stuff for yubel).

But I'd say it makes sense because in original version egyptian gods are called "õ©ëÒüòÒéôÕ╣╗ÒüÆÒéôþÑ×ÒüùÒéô" for "Sangenshin"

and sacred beasts are called "õ©ëÕ╣╗Ú¡ö" for "Sangenma"

See how similar kanjis are? Not to mention those monsters have similar looks

DimensionFusionDestruction-OW.png


But I'll try to gather more concrete proofs. Ah also thanks for pointing out my mistake about number 96 Prana. It's been a while I didn't watch zexal.
 
That reminds me we could consider "chaos ancient gear giants" (anciant gear monsters) have at least a tier 8 - A feat (perhaps even low 7 -C) because before the opening there was an "intro" where we can see them destroying a huge portion of a big town: https://www2.**************/watch/episode/subbed/yu-gi-oh-arc-v-episode-103/ (at 1 min 20).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

deonment
Semi-Major CRT for Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Terminal
Replies
5
Views
709
Theglassman12
Theglassman12
Apollonir.Scale
Massive Yugi Muto Update
Replies
38
Views
3K
Ginko27
Ginko27
AmogusSusfunni
Shark Punching Center Upgrade
Replies
15
Views
984
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Jeune_fou
Yu-Gi-Oh! Go rush is potentially very strong too?
Replies
1
Views
650
Jeune_fou
Jeune_fou
XxZetsuxX
  • Locked
Death Note - Rework (Kira version)
Replies
20
Views
952
XxZetsuxX
XxZetsuxX
Back
Top