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Yogiri takatou(Base/Avatar) vs Homura Akemi
- Thread starter Gohanblanco217
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Is this a vote?
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My sense of humor have fallen so low that this made me chuckle.
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Bump
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If this is Homucifer being used, she stomps. Godoka already destroyed Yogurt.
Homilily might be more fair, not sure tho/\.
Homilily might be more fair, not sure tho/\.
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And how does she stomp exactly?
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If Goddess Madoka cannot reach into Homulilly barrier, what makes you think Yogurt can do it?
Anyway, you can use true form Yogiri and he still lose.
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Much bigger cosmology makes it quite impossible for yogurt (who only has baseline range) to kill any of PMMM God Tier that isn't Avatar of Calamity.
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Okay but I don't see resistance to Death manipulation tho
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I swear ID is wanked
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It's not about having Death Resistance, it's about ID lacks of range to affect much bigger Abstraction.
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Looks like people are blatantly ignoring the rules to make their cosmology look bigger and stronger, so let me put an end to this farce:
In short, no matter how many multiverses Madoka, Homura, or any other character from their series could influence, the total size of their verse would still remain "infinite", and thus it is no bigger than the size of ID-verse cosmology. Therefore, Madoka's total size is still no more than 2-A-tier "infinite", just like Yogiri.
In short, no matter how many multiverses Madoka, Homura, or any other character from their series could influence, the total size of their verse would still remain "infinite", and thus it is no bigger than the size of ID-verse cosmology. Therefore, Madoka's total size is still no more than 2-A-tier "infinite", just like Yogiri.
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Did you really not get what that means? It means that the range will still remain baseline 2-A tier multiversal infinite, no matter how many multiverses their verse have. Just as the attack potency is not increased by having more multiverses, the range doesn't increase as well due to the same logic, as it only remains "countably infinite" just like the range of any other multiverse+ character.
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Rikimarox2
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I mean, if it says the difference between multiple infinite sized multiverses isn't different than one, wouldn't that include range as well?
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Exactly what I mean.
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Of course not. Destroying thing relates to the amount of energy. Range is different thing all together.
The page is talking about "infinite set". Yes those sets can have the same countable infinite universe. However, when the other sets is located in an inaccessible place than the other set, then we're talking about range.
I'm talking about general 2A though. I'm not Puella expert.
The page is talking about "infinite set". Yes those sets can have the same countable infinite universe. However, when the other sets is located in an inaccessible place than the other set, then we're talking about range.
I'm talking about general 2A though. I'm not Puella expert.
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It is not "outside range" as the range remains "countably infinite universe". There is nothing that proves that having more than one multiverse make them inaccessible as they still fall within the range of 'countably infinite'. If we're to make such assumptions, we can also assume that the size of the "Sea" in the ID cosmology is equal to an infinite set of 2-A multiverses, and thus no character from Puella can influence Yogiri.
Rikimarox2
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I think even if the range was equal, Homura will still win due to her mindhax, no? Unless Immeasurable is > Omnipresence.
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The 'Sea' I'm taking about is basically an immeasurably large dimension of sort that very casually contains the entire 2-A multiverse of ID. What we do know is that the "sea" is big enough to contain an unknown number of baseline 2-A multiverses.
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Yes, Immeasurable is greater than Omnipresence, because Immeasurable is the attack and reaction speed of a character, while Omnipresence is just a state of being.
Rikimarox2
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I mean, from what I heard, Madoka transcends liner time, and Homura I believe is kind of an equal to Madoka. But eh, I'm not knowledgeable on the verse, so...
I won't vote for anyone yet ;p
I won't vote for anyone yet ;p
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The cosmology in PMMM is like two libraries, contains infinite numbers of bookcases, with each book case contains infinite numbers of books.
A book in this analogy = a universe/timeline. A bookcase = a 2-A Multiverse. And a library = what encompassed all the bookcases.
And Puella has two of those libraries.
The "sea thing" that contains HRE cannot even be compared to Puella due HRE could only contains 2-C to 2-B amount of universes.
The rules only applies to AP as I recall, not range.
A book in this analogy = a universe/timeline. A bookcase = a 2-A Multiverse. And a library = what encompassed all the bookcases.
And Puella has two of those libraries.
The "sea thing" that contains HRE cannot even be compared to Puella due HRE could only contains 2-C to 2-B amount of universes.
The rules only applies to AP as I recall, not range.
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The sea contains all the heavenly records/universes and HREs, not just the HREs
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Still can't see that's comparable due HRE being 2-C to 2-B despite, there is an infinite number of them.
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The "sea thing" is boundless with no known limitation to its size, unlike the 'libraries' that naturally have a limitation to their size; so if anything, it's the Puella-verse that can't be compared to ID cosmology.
Besides, since the logic is the same (countably infinite is still no more than 'countably infinite'), it would only make sense for it to apply to range as well.
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@Rikimarox2
I totally forgot to mention that Yogiri has resistance to mind and conceptual manipulation, as was shown in the 5th volume of the LN. Ester, someone who can make anyone or anything do whatever she says, be it a living or non-living thing, was not able to influence him in the least when he was just a kid.
I totally forgot to mention that Yogiri has resistance to mind and conceptual manipulation, as was shown in the 5th volume of the LN. Ester, someone who can make anyone or anything do whatever she says, be it a living or non-living thing, was not able to influence him in the least when he was just a kid.
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The "libraries" is infinite in size, that is how it can contains infinite numbers of multiverse that also contains infinite numbers of universes. The only "limit" these libraries has is the fact they still exists within 4 Dimensional space.
ID verse cannot be compared to them, HRE is even has less size than one of them "bookcase" in the Puella Library. Even if "The Sea" is the same size as one of the "Library", Puella Cosmology has two of the + one particular timeline that has been stated to be completely detached from these two "Libraries".
Except each of these countable infinite has invisible "wall" that separated them from each other. It is like you can have a pocket dimension that has the size of High 3-A universe, and still be within 3 dimensional space. A character trapped within such pocket dimension cannot affects someone who is outside of this pocket dimension due there is a "Wall" that separates them, unless they have a feat to do so.
ID verse cannot be compared to them, HRE is even has less size than one of them "bookcase" in the Puella Library. Even if "The Sea" is the same size as one of the "Library", Puella Cosmology has two of the + one particular timeline that has been stated to be completely detached from these two "Libraries".
Except each of these countable infinite has invisible "wall" that separated them from each other. It is like you can have a pocket dimension that has the size of High 3-A universe, and still be within 3 dimensional space. A character trapped within such pocket dimension cannot affects someone who is outside of this pocket dimension due there is a "Wall" that separates them, unless they have a feat to do so.
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Said resistances will not help him at all due Homura concept and Mindhax is far stronger than anything he ever faced before.
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Having some "walls" doesn't mean anything when the range is still no more than "countably infinite". For all we know, a universe in Puella-verse could be infinitely smaller in comparison to a Heavenly Record (universe) in ID, and thus having more multiverses would naturally not mean anything.
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It means everything since you can have a pocket dimension the size of infinite within mundane stuff like a jar or a piece of marble. The thing is, when you were trapped within said pocket dimension, your infinite range only applies within said pocket dimension and not outside of it.
Also, A universe/timeline in Puella has been both stated and shown to be Low 2-C in size, so they are not smaller as your regular timeline. So having more Multiverse means a lot when it comes to abstraction like Madoka and Homura.
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The thing is, a Heavenly Record (a universe in ID) is more than just a standard universe, as each of them has a higher dimension where the entire information of the universe is stored, and from where the Gods administer their universe. So, if we start a discussion over the size of cosmology, there would be no end to it. That's why, we should agree on 'countably infinite' multiverse = just 'countably infinite' range (with no superiority over another verse), at least in this case, if we want any Puella Characters vs Yogiri battle to reach any sort of conclusion.
Besides, as Darian was able to move to a parallel world/another timeline, it is clear that each Heavenly Record (there's an infinite number of them) could potentially contain an infinite number of parallel worlds.
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Votes?
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Well, there seems to be some misunderstanding about the cosmology of the two verses, so we need to first come to an agreement about their size before voting for a side.
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Alright then, I asked Oblivion_Of_The_Endless to post his opinion here
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Puella Universe is not your regular universe as well though. This universe can literally branches of infinitely. There is a version of Homura who is a pranksters and originally there is only one of her throughout the Multiverse. Another version of Homura appeared in the Prankster Homura timeline and intervened with it. The number of Prankster Homura multiplied by Infinite later on.
There is also the fact that an insignificant action like "kicking a pebble" could gives birth to a new timeline entirely. So each actions were made within a timeline gave a new branch timeline.
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The main difference between the universes of the two series is that a Heavenly Record is not only not a regular universe, it is literally 'far more than' just a regular universe, as it also have a higher dimension (the only reason we don't call it 5-D is because there isn't enough context to support it).
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