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Yoda vs Rey

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Leon_Help4

Leon_Help4

164
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6-C versions for both

Speed equal?

Yoda-0
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.


REyy
 
As much as I hate to say it, Rey is buffed by the combined power of all the jedi, including Yoda and those comparable to him so the green lad's getting squashed
 
I thought it was even since Yoda has better knowledge of the force and way more experience, which might counter Rey's superior strenght.
 
I think Yoda would win.

His lightsaber skills and experiences are far superior to Rey, if you remember that yoda already completed the training with Force Priestesses who exist in the Wellspring of Life(the birthplace of Midi-Chlorians).
 
Rey should be able to overpower any force attacks from Yoda with ease, tho.


Since she has yoda's force + all other jedi.
 
Doesn't this version of Rey including yoda make this pointless?
 
As far as I know, there is no evidence to suggest that she was boosted by all of the Jedi. During the scene, we hear their voices encouraging her to get up and that's pretty much it iirc. She did say "I am all the Jedi" or some nonsense, but this line could be referring to the notion that she is all that's left of the Jedi and contains all of their knowledge like the sacred texts to continue their legacy (as explained in The Last Jedi). It shouldn't be assumed she was amplified by the other Jedi or she gained their Force abilities. Sure, she deflected Sidious' force lightning, but because she used a lightsaber and you know, lightsabers deflect energy and stuff like they've always done. This is no different. I mean Mace did this in Revenge of the Sith with his lightsaber and burned Sidious' skin to a crisp, showing that a Force power isn't necessary to deflect force lightning. Even if we do take the scene seriously, it wouldn't make sense in this fight. Why would the spirits of the Jedi (including Yoda) help Rey defeat Yoda? It makes sense in context of the plot because they wanted to kill Sidious, but not here.

On the other hand, Yoda is FAR superior to anything Rey has every shown in the films. He fought on par with a ROTS Sidious in terms of both lightsaber combat and the force, absorbing and pushing force lightning back at him with his own hands. If I remember this correctly, the novelization of ROTS strongly implied that Yoda was winning that fight as well and he could have too had he not been blown off that platform in the end as seen in the film. Additionally, Yoda massively outskills simply due to his hundreds of years of experience and being overall superior to every Jedi on the council. In comparison, Rey still has much to learn even at the end of TROS and we get like what? Several minutes screen time of Rey training for the first time in the entire sequel trilogy? Besides, Sidious had both her and Kylo eating dirt throughout the entire battle until the end where the plot had to come into play.

Seriously, saying that Rey defeats Yoda let alone ragdolls him is truly laughable.
 
@X Squared Yoda was actually winning in saber combat since he disarmed him (the scene was deleted but iirc it's either the screen play or novel that mentions Yoda disarmed him and Sidious started using force power.
 
Yeah, I gotta vote Yoda here, too. Rey will attack with her lightsaber before she ever tries to ragdoll, and Yoda will carve her into pieces. The spirits of the Jedi (including Yoda) wouldn't contextually be much help against Yoda himself. X Squared has it 100% right here, all she did was pull a Mace Windu.
 
Rey does have two lightsabers in this key and is able to push away Sidius.

And, we cannot assume the jedi spirits can jst be like "Dude, you fighting Joda? I'm out" because that would puut her down to her usual tiering, making this a stomp. So, all the jedi spirits would be willing to go all out against Joda with the intent to kill and give all their power to Rey to do so.
 
A complete novice with two lightsabers vs. a master with hundreds of years of experience, who performed an even more impressive version of Rey and Mace's feats by using his bare hands instead of a weapon that has already been shown to have energy-reflecting properties.

There is no version of this where Rey wins. Even if she tries to ragdoll, Yoda can easily do the same right back to her.
 
> As far as I know, there is no evidence to suggest that she was boosted by all of the Jedi. During the scene, we hear their voices encouraging her to get up and that's pretty much it iirc.


Her feats after the Jedi give her strength are radically different, Occam's Razor is a thing.


> Sure, she deflected Sidious' force lightning, but because she used a lightsaber and you know, lightsabers deflect energy and stuff like they've always done. This is no different. I mean Mace did this in Revenge of the Sith with his lightsaber and burned Sidious' skin to a crisp, showing that a Force power isn't necessary to deflect force lightning


Using Mace Windu doesnt make your argument better as his one of the few people that can contend with Palpatine on Equal Grounds, also the idea that you just need a lightsaber to deflect Palpatine's lightning regardless of how strong you are is a No limits fallacy, unless you want to imply Han Solo with two Lightsabers can deflect Palpatine's power, also in revenge of the sith we see Sidious overpower Yoda's lightsaber anyway.


> Even if we do take the scene seriously, it wouldn't make sense in this fight. Why would the spirits of the Jedi (including Yoda) help Rey defeat Yoda? It makes sense in context of the plot because they wanted to kill Sidious, but not here.


Using the Context of the story to negate an argument isnt a good one, using your logic we cant have Anakin vs Darth Vader on vs battle wiki because they are the same person and they cant actually fight, you cant have Luke vs Qui Gon Jinn because Qui Gon died before Luke was born, this argumentation is rubbish.


> On the other hand, Yoda is FAR superior to anything Rey has every shown in the films. He fought on par with a ROTS Sidious in terms of both lightsaber combat and the force, absorbing and pushing force lightning back at him with his own hands.


Yoda's current tier comes from backwards scaling of this Rey and TROS Palpatine, On screen feats Rey is Objectively better, Yoda got best by a lightning blast that knocked away his lightsaber and barely scorched the Podium while Rey deflected and overpowered a lightning attack that was capable of vaporizing large amounts of Ice around thousands of Star Destroyers aswell as destroying and disabling dozens of ships, the aftershock not only Obliterated Palpatine but an entire Arena with dozens of Sith Cultist, saying their Observable feats are comparable is Disingenuous.


> If I remember this correctly, the novelization of ROTS strongly implied that Yoda was winning that fight as well and he could have too had he not been blown off that platform in the end as seen in the film


Novelization isnt canon.


> everal minutes screen time of Rey training for the first time in the entire sequel trilogy?


She has been training over a year, this doesnt mean she is comparable to Yoda but your argument of a few min of training is absolutely ridiculous.

Also you keep harping about experience, Luke bested Vader with barely a years training despite the latter becoming a better swordsman than Anakin and a stronger force wielder, and Anakin had close to a decade of training and 3 years of non stop war experience.


> Besides, Sidious had both her and Kylo eating dirt throughout the entire battle until the end where the plot had to come into play.


Thats a weaker Rey, also arguing PLOT isnt a good argument, that PLOT REY is the one we are arguing now, dozens of shonen characters pull out random moves or transformations that would be considered a PLOT CONTRIVANCE but that doesnt mean we get to ignore their forms and their feats.


> Seriously, saying that Rey defeats Yoda let alone ragdolls him is truly laughable.


Yoda pulls out his lightsaber and she ragdolls him slaps him into the ground and pushes him off some cliff, stop being butthurt, she is being amped by The Yoda your arguing with, The Mace that held back that Palpatine your arguing with, The Chosen One, Luke and Leia and dozens of other Jedi.
 
Ah, I remember when Rey was a good character back in The Force Awakens...

Anywho, Rey is absurdly stronger, but Yoda completely crushes in terms of experience, intellect, and skill. If Rey wanted to, she could completely ragdoll him effortlessly. However, she's never done that in character. In combat, she almost always opens with lightsaber combat, thereby allowing Yoda to swamp her before she can ragdoll her.

Also, I agree with Shadow, that argument makes zero sense.
 
> Ah, I remember when Rey was a good character back in The Force Awakens...

For me Rey was a far better character and ideal before TROS doubled down on the same problems the Prequels had by making the Force about bloodlines and inhertery, though I enjoy watchingr her because I think Daisy Ridley brings charm to an otherwise flatish character.

> she's never done that in character. In combat

This was True for TFA and TLJ but in TROS when fighting she ragdolls a bunch of characters, slamming them and deflecting their attacks, TROS Rey seems to abuse the Force far more in Combat.
 
Well, true. But against other force wielders like Kylo Ren, she mainly used her lightsaber. Heck, even against Sidious she blocked with her lightsabera before reflecting his lightning back and killing him.
 
I mean whats stopping her from just deflecting Yoda's lightsaber with the Force like she and Kylo did with one another.
 
Yoda wins due to skill.


The only reason Rey managed to beat Palpatine is because she used his own power against him, and still died trying.
 
"Using the Context of the story to negate an argument isnt a good one, using your logic we cant have Anakin vs Darth Vader on vs battle wiki because they are the same person and they cant actually fight, you cant have Luke vs Qui Gon Jinn because Qui Gon died before Luke was born, this argumentation is rubbish."

LoL I guess in this instance where it is specified but that is completely false The point of her getting amplified was to ensure a victory against an opponent she was otherwise fodder to, and this opponent was a sith, I doubt she would have received that gift if she was fighting either Kylo Ren or Luke Skywalker (Should he have been alive in RoTS and was fighting Rey seriously) as she wouldn't have been fighting a sith aka someone fighting to end the Jedi and would have succeeded.

And making those comparisons weren't really relevant

Rey and Yoda aren't the same person so it would NOT be the same thing.

You should delete that one, and keep your Luke v Jinn comparison. and again it wouldn't match context here his argument is "She received help for a specific purpose and otherwise wouldn't have received that powerup,"

Which isn't necessarily wrong, and the premise on your debunk is "WELL CAN WE NOT IMAGINE? WHAT IF SHE DID RECIVE THEM" which is problematic because that isn't what he was talking about and his logic isn't nearly the same as yours he is saying Yoda is a Jedi and one could argue one that would have received that powerup instead of Rey if they WERE to fight, and even then it's likely neither would be helped. That is what he was saying. What you were saying is that she did, and while you aren't wrong it's not addressing the reason he said that.

so neither of your arguments pertain to this thread and you guys should probably discuss that somewhere else.
 
Yoda, wins due to superior dueling and knowledge of the force.

The ataru style is not one Rey is akin with, and she would almost certainty definitely be overwhelmed especially taking Yodas size into account it's like getting a 3 ft Katana being swung at you by a 4 yr old off red bull.

And even if we take the Force into account it wasn't demonstrated how strong Rey became with the force, it wasn't like she deflected FL with her own Force she used two lightsabers and died soon after.

We CAN infact assume FL can be more easily redirected with lightsabers it wasn't just a Mace Windu thing. Obi Wan did it very easily against Dooku despite being obviously inferior Granted, Sidious is far more powerful than Dooku which is why Mace had much more trouble reflecting it than Obi-Wan did but he was also kind of caught off guard as described in the novel he didn't have time to hesitate to block the FL.

Yodas Lightsaber being flung is HIGH KEY irrelevant and would be argued that was just for plot the movie had a set time, and couldn't go over the full battle, and even then Yoda evidently wasn't deflecting the lightning to begin with.

She is lowkey featless at that point I'll allot she was buffed and for some reason didn't just DIE, but seriously there is nothing backing her being amped I would rather interpret that to be encouragement all she really did was get up and deflect lightning and it wasn't easy by any means. And if we are bringing up points Yoda held Sidious' lightning with the Force not a LS, and he did in fact have the upper hand in that battle.

"Also you keep harping about experience, Luke bested Vader with barely a years training despite the latter becoming a better swordsman than Anakin and a stronger force wielder, and Anakin had close to a decade of training and 3 years of non stop war experience. "


A Vader who learned that Luke was his son, and wasn't going to kill him? A Vader who even appeared to be holding back on his usual aggressive style of fighting? Yea that doesn't even hold relevance here on top of that a decade isn't nearly a millennia that Yoda has.


Experience takes this.

Also the novel is canon @Shadowbokunohero
 
"Rey does have two lightsabers in this key and is able to push away Sidius. And, we cannot assume the jedi spirits can jst be like "Dude, you fighting Joda? I'm out" because that would puut her down to her usual tiering, making this a stomp. So, all the jedi spirits would be willing to go all out against Joda with the intent to kill and give all their power to Rey to do so."

^ this is what I was responding to for that above response though as still the implication she was fueled by the Jedi's full power would be fallacious she would have curbed Sidious with no debate three of those Jedi are fully capable of handling Sidious 1v1 (Anakin, Mace, and Yoda), two are capable of having Sidious worried (Obi-Wan, and Jinn) Along with the rest of them? I mean come on, seriously? There wasn't even anything to imply they didn't do anything more than just tell Rey to get up and fight. And as previously mentioned Lightsabers are known for blocking FL, and there would be more evidence to support they can do it on guard AS REY WAS, and we can't go ahead and decide to use "Well they probably couldn't do a full scale battle between Sidious v Rey to demonstrate her true powers," I mean she received a buff for sure but I would argue it only brought her to just about that level. Not somehow lightyears beyond Yoda, if this WAS the case then this thread is a stomp and should be closed without recognition, and I'm leaning to it not being the case and she isn't as powerful as what you guys are claiming at all.

You guys forget, Yoda quite literally was the only one who made Sidious run from him if the novels aren't canon.

If we want to consider them canon and use the "Sidious was worried about Vader excuse," then it was also heavily implied that if Yoda hadn't fell and hurt himself, then good bye OT.

Let's be real there's a limit to the stuff we should allow from the sequels, and buffing Rey as high as her having the combined power of every dead Jedi whilst being unconfirmed in the first place shouldn't fly.
 
pretty sure the tally is 6/7 Rey and 8 Yoda we got ourselves a grace period. or an inc I don't remember either way Yoda is currently winning this unless we get another valid vote for Rey because that'll either tie it up or give Rey enough
 
Also important to mention

"At least Island level (Easily disabled the entire New Republic Fleet with a Force Lightning blast, the fleet having dozens of ships, including multiple MC85 Star Cruisers and MC75 Star Cruisers, which are larger and more durable than the likes of the Quasar Fire-class crusier-carrier. Equal to Yoda)"

This means this isn't a stomp, the Palpatine Rey beat was/is equal to Yoda and it wouldn't mean "Rey killed Palpatine right? Insta GG," it means since Rey did die from Palpatine as well this isn't what this thread has been making it out to be.
 
Please don't spam messages like this.

Anyways, the Darth Sidious she killed with the power of "all Jedi" had previously juiced up with both Rey and Darth Vader wannabe's force juice, and both are stated to have raw power beyond anything Luke has ever sensed. Its dumb, obviously, but its a thing regardless.

Yoda may be a better fighter, but Rey blows him out in power rather casually.
 
Forgot the rules been a while bare with me.

Those statements are faulty, as they would both be claims to Vader and Palpatine himself. As Luke has sensed both, and we know 3 facts that would dismiss this

Kylo didn't surpass Vader #1

Palpatine (Weaker at that), reduced them both to fodder, anyways so unless him stealing their power meant him stealing their potential powers, this invalidates Lukes comments.

And lastly, Luke didn't sense a prime Yoda, Anankin, or Sidious himself anyways. MAYBE in Sidious' case he did, even if we say Vader surpassed Anakin in raw power, we do have to take note he did have limitations to his power regardless, and there was no way to know how powerful he would've ended up and I doubt that it'd be far superior to either Yoda or Sidious, and Yoda was on his death bed when Luke seen him.

We also need to remind ourselves of Midiclhorians Anakin and Yoda both had abundant amounts their connection to the Force was more powerful than not only human made/normal reproduction, organisms but anyone in their era's. Usually Vs Wiki is tough even on statements such as these, I think it should remain just as strict, seeing as how there is no backing evidence for Rey being as strong as Luke claims, let alone stronger than he's ever sensed.
 
The wiki isn't really tough on direct statements unless there is a reason not to believe them.

Sidious, while juiced up on Rey Ann's Kylo's force did the one greatest feat the whole series has. He shoots down what could be thousands of ships with casual ease, and the same lightning is reflected back by Rey. Yoda's saber failed to do the same, and I really doubt Palpatine was anywhere near as strong back then.


Point is, current Yoda backscales from Palpatine, while she scales equal to him. She is stated to have been superior to anyone Luke ever met as far as raw power goes also, which is not against anything shown. She was also retconned to be the chosen one in one of the newer books also, so Anakin's better genetics for the force don't really work for an argument.
 
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