Yeah, another Undertale upgrade.

[Deleted member 16409]

This time is Asgore.
So, I won't tell or say about anything that is 8 tier, no, I just came up with "likely" or "possibly" higher.

Do we know that Humans could SAVE&LOAD in their adventures? Yes, we sure know.

Toriel in the game said that she feel like she already know them when she saw humans.

And Asgore is acknowledged about our death and don't react suprised, maybe because he actually stressed with sins so he doesn't even care anymore.

So, someone here said that the RESET abilities in the UT is highest human feat, and we all know that Asgore did holding back in our fight.

So, TL;DR:
Make Asgore "possibly higher" because it's currently unknown how he fought human childs which is 8-B.

 

[Comiphorous]

I mean, as a boss monster + king of the monsters he already massively upscales from his current rating, adding that 'possibly higher' is just the icing on the cake of his upscaling.

and, most of them were probably 9-B anyways, becoming 8-B once they were placed in jars for a while, but thats an oversight we dont talk about

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I mean, as a boss monster + king of the monsters he already massively upscales from his current rating, adding that 'possibly higher' is just the icing on the cake of his upscaling.

Yeah, Asgore in-game is hardly depressed so he wasn't able to show his true power.

and, most of them were probably 9-B anyways, becoming 8-B once they were placed in jars for a while, but thats an oversight we dont talk about

At least two oh them was 8-B when they were alive since Toriel felt Deja Vu

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I mean, as a boss monster + king of the monsters he already massively upscales from his current rating, adding that 'possibly higher' is just the icing on the cake of his upscaling.

and, most of them were probably 9-B anyways, becoming 8-B once they were placed in jars for a while, but thats an oversight we dont talk about

anyway, I found a better characters to possibly scale than 6 kids.

What about 2 greatest human mages ever..?
The strongest, those who created the Barrier which should upscale from Asriel.

And Asgore surprisingly fought against 2 if not more of them.

 

[Funnimane]

the full power of a human soul is 8-B, humans normally would be tier 9

 

[Deleted member 16409]

the full power of a human soul is 8-B, humans normally would be tier 9

It should be thought.
But Frisk seems kinda... anomalic due to low 2c dura and etc.

Anyway, I doubt that the guys who created the low2c Barrier are 9B lmao

 

[Funnimane]

Anyway, I doubt that the guys who created the low2c Barrier are 9B lmao

the more powerful humans should probably be 8-B normally, but probably not random children
Chara is the only probable standard for an average human child in the Undertale universe we have, and they were able to survive a 9-B fall while needing help to walk after, and Frisk who is definitely not normal was able to tank that fall unscathed and scales to 9-B through 9-A monsters

 

[Deleted member 16409]

the more powerful humans should probably be 8-B normally, but probably not random children

Or course they shouldn't be.
and it doesn't matter that they could LOAD thought.

But anyway, Asgore literally fought 2 of the strongest humans at same time, he survived thought.

But it seems like 2 of them wasn't murdered or hardly injured because they're still at the intro.

 

[Funnimane]

But anyway, Asgore literally fought 2 of the strongest humans at same time, he survived thought.

scan?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

scan?

I'm unable to send it here due to my "I didn't understand how this site links works" so can you send me your disco?

 

[Funnimane]

I'm unable to send it here due to my "I didn't understand how this site links works" so can you send me your disco?

can you just type the quote and where in the game it's from then :v

 

[Deleted member 16409]

can you just type the quote and where in the game it's from then :v

K one sec.

First scan whatsoever:
It don't even needed, it's in intro.
There's an Asgore(huge) and a commander(mage..?) on different side.
Both of them have their army.

On next screen there's a mage who's casting the Barrier holding unimaginable power of other 7 mages in 1 stick.
And there's that commander(mage???)

But, in Undertale Collector Edition's there's an story booklet.


There's more clear that's an Asgore and commander..
But. Behind commander(mage???) in army there's someone with a really long hair.

And on the next page

Its became clear that it was a greatest humanity mage.

So it's clear that it's a very skilled commander/mage or an 9-A dude or even higher.

But, mage.
Mage with long hair.

They're fought against Asgore too.

Due to mages actually having ability to unleash their soul power, I believe Asgore fought At least 8-B possibly higher mage.

And he survived.

 

[Sans2345]

Major bump, but i really do agree with 8-B Asgore he should be 8-B if not higher at best, it doesn't make sense that he's 9-A at the moment when his ATK stat is higher than base Undyne, Mettaton EX, or Papyrus, Toriel casually knocked Asgore away while it took Undyne so much effort to even knock him down, although it is likely that Undyne was at a young age when she done this.

And to be honest, i think Asgore killing children isn't really 8-B but fighting against mages is likely 8-B if not higher.

 

[Sans2345]

And Asgore killing children would be 9-C or 9-B at best.

 

[Comiphorous]

Major bump, but i really do agree with 8-B Asgore he should be 8-B if not higher at best, it doesn't make sense that he's 9-A at the moment when his ATK stat is higher than base Undyne, Mettaton EX, or Papyrus, Toriel casually knocked Asgore away while it took Undyne so much effort to even knock him down, although it is likely that Undyne was at a young age when she done this.

So you want him to scale as so;

City Block level (is the strongest monster in the entire underground having the highest STATs of all monsterkind, Undyne stating that she considers herself killing Frisk to be mercy compared to what Asgore could do. fought on the front lines against the humans war between humans and monsters and shown to have fought one one of humanities best magician, which should be capable of using the full power of their soul)

 

[Iiliminal]

and doesnt undyne in her undying form upscale from that?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

and doesnt undyne in her undying form upscale from that?

Nah, no one scales besides Toriel because Asgore has the Monster Boss SOUL which is leagues above Undyne's SOUL.

Asgore's SOUL is the most strongest one, and we have information that Determination is Soul's strength.

Also he fought and murdered 6 children who were capable of exploiting their DT, which would place them in 8 tier, too.

And also he fought not 1, but 2 Magicians at same time due his prime.

And we know that 7 Magicians upscale from Barrier which makes them greater than full power Asriel.

 

[Comiphorous]

Nah, no one scales besides Toriel because Asgore has the Monster Boss SOUL which is leagues above Undyne's SOUL.

Undyne would 100% scale as undying. she's massively superior to Asgore and toriel in that form.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed with undying undyne, Toriel and Asgore for 8-B

 

[Comiphorous]

Also he fought and murdered 6 children who were capable of exploiting their DT, which would place them in 8 tier, too.

And also he fought not 1, but 2 Magicians at same time due his prime.

And we know that 7 Magicians upscale from Barrier which makes them greater than full power Asriel.

We have no idea how strong those humans were. a big claim to say they were all 8-B when they were killed in the ruins, waterfall, and hotland (all of those places not even having 8-B monsters)

the 7 magicians can create a 2-B structure, but do not upscale from it. it wouldn't make sense considering asriel literally breaks it.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Undyne would 100% scale as undying. she's massively superior to Asgore and toriel in that form.

Disagree tbh, her SOUL is still massively weaker even with that power.

We have no idea how strong those humans were. a big claim to say they were all 8-B when they were killed in the ruins, waterfall, and hotland (all of those places not even having 8-B monsters)

Children? Well, I'm just being aware that children could execute DT power which would make their tier varying from 9-B to 8-B depending on their intentions.

the 7 magicians can create a 2-B structure, but do not upscale from it. it wouldn't make sense considering asriel literally breaks it.

They at least scale to it, since this barrier required SOUL power to create, at 7 magician SOULs were greater than Barrier, at last.

 

[Comiphorous]

Disagree tbh, her SOUL is still massively weaker even with that power.

... except she's statistically stronger than both of them...

Children? Well, I'm just being aware that children could execute DT power which would make their tier varying from 9-B to 8-B depending on their intentions.

But none of them ever got to 8-B. they all died to 9-Bs and 9-As.

They at least scale to it, since this barrier required SOUL power to create, at 7 magician SOULs were greater than Barrier, at last.

They were in no way greater than the barrier. it required all 7 of them to make the barrier in the first place. if anything the barrier is superior to THEM.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

... except she's statistically stronger than both of them...

Yeah, while Toriel and Asgore didn't even used their SOUL strength at that moment.

This thread is more about Prime Asgore key

But none of them ever got to 8-B. they all died to 9-Bs and 9-As.

And that's thing is unknown, since Frisk died to 9-Bs too.
The thing is that they were capable of executing their power to became 8-B.

They were in no way greater than the barrier. it required all 7 of them to make the barrier in the first place. if anything the barrier is superior to THEM.

Let's say that to make charge the phone you need 500 energy.
Your battery have 200. You Fully charged your phone.

Then ask me, how? I will answer...
Barrier is or same or lower than 7 magicians combined, there's no way Barrier holds more power than 7 magicians because it would be just logically impossible.

Also, it was stated as just "powerful", not their strongest spell.

And to your notice, they're named greatest for a reason.

 

[Comiphorous]

bump. im interested in seeing what others have to say about bumping asgore to this level.

 

[Roachman40]

Okay after looking through this...meh? We don't exactly know if asgore actually fought the magician or not, the guy isn't even in the front lines like the general is, he is in the back with the rest of the crowd lol. Somewhat minor-ish nitpick but I feel we should prioritize the actual cutscene from the game rather than this collectors edition art, especially considering this and the actual cutscene have some differences (The magician doesn't seem to be in the crowd in the game sequence for example, and in the last slide of the cutscene their appears to be a croud behind the general and magician, of which isnt there in the collectors edition version)


So I definitely oppose a solid 8-B for asgore, is all i'd say

 

[Comiphorous]

Okay after looking through this...meh? We don't exactly know if asgore actually fought the magician or not, the guy isn't even in the front lines like the general is, he is in the back with the rest of the crowd lol. Somewhat minor-ish nitpick but I feel we should prioritize the actual cutscene from the game rather than this collectors edition art, especially considering this and the actual cutscene have some differences (The magician doesn't seem to be in the crowd in the game sequence for example, and in the last slide of the cutscene their appears to be a croud behind the general and magician, of which isnt there in the collectors edition version)


So I definitely oppose a solid 8-B for asgore, is all i'd say

a possibly rating is fine with me.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Ya know, no one scales besides Asgore and Toriel

 

[Comiphorous]

Ya know, no one scales besides Asgore and Toriel

that causes a giant mcguffin in scaling. Undyne the Undying and Mettaton NEO are superior to asgore and toriel, but get AP stomped by your logic of them scaling but nobody else.

makes zero sense.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

that causes a giant mcguffin in scaling. Undyne the Undying and Mettaton NEO are superior to asgore and toriel, but get AP stomped by your logic of them scaling but nobody else.

makes zero sense.

Because this thing is not about base Asgore but his prime which is unknown.

Also to your notice, Asgore has the strongest SOUL of all, which power wasn't ever used in the game.
Monster Boss's SOUL is stated to be the strongest one of all, which only Asgore and Tori has.

They never executed this power in-game, so I'd say it better to create just another key for them.

 

[Comiphorous]

Because this thing is not about base Asgore but his prime which is unknown.

There isn't a difference. he isn't depicted any weaker than he was during the war. the only difference is his state of mind, which doesn't warrant another key.

Also to your notice, Asgore has the strongest SOUL of all, which power wasn't ever used in the game.
Monster Boss's SOUL is stated to be the strongest one of all, which only Asgore and Tori has.

They never executed this power in-game, so I'd say it better to create just another key for them.

doesn't mean much when undyne and mettaton are canonically stronger than both of them.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

There isn't a difference. he isn't depicted any weaker than he was during the war. the only difference is his state of mind, which doesn't warrant another key.

Doesn't state of mind literally affect monsters in various moments? Being depressed surely downgrades you to the ground, for example Ice in UT and etc.
Asgore is stated to be really depressed in-game, in one of the endings he literally commits suicide.

doesn't mean much when undyne and mettaton are canonically stronger than both of them.

And canonically far, far weaker.
Undyne can't even hold her SOUL after death nor Mettaton.

If you mean that they're stronger than Base Asgore, then right, it's true.

But remember that this version we see in game is a fat piece of depressed goat which is more like a shadow of his previous life.

 

[Comiphorous]

Doesn't state of mind literally affect monsters in various moments? Being depressed surely downgrades you to the ground, for example Ice in UT and etc.
Asgore is stated to be really depressed in-game, in one of the endings he literally commits suicide.

problem. asgore isn't downgraded to the ground. he's downed to... superior to the entire underground. monsters under the effects like that are quite literally one shot by everything. asgore has no problem fighting humans, and Flowey (who supposedly abused that concept about monsters) couldn't fight him.

And canonically far, far weaker.
Undyne can't even hold her SOUL after death nor Mettaton.

If you mean that they're stronger than Base Asgore, then right, it's true.

But remember that this version we see in game is a fat piece of depressed goat which is more like a shadow of his previous life.

Uh... nope. still far stronger. they're both statistically superior to them. they scale.

monster souls are strong enough to persist after death momentarily, but that doesn't mean much physically scaling wise.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

problem. asgore isn't downgraded to the ground. he's downed to... superior to the entire underground. monsters under the effects like that are quite literally one shot by everything. asgore has no problem fighting humans, and Flowey (who supposedly abused that concept about monsters) couldn't fight him.

monster souls are strong enough to persist after death momentarily, but that doesn't mean much physically scaling wise.

They're all very connected to SOULs, and I'd like to say again that Undyne is weaker than Asgore just because she can't hold her soul.

Also, she used maximum of her SOUL while Asgore never even used it in-game.

 

[ShionAH]

Asgore will and always was stronger than all the other monsters including undyne. Remember base undyne couldn't even land a single hit so Undying would just give asgore a bit harder time but asgore will always win.

 

[Sans015]

Sooo, uh, no? Solid rating is out of the table. Likely too. But even possibly is not arguable here

All the irrefutable evidence presented to us by the game is that Asgore and monsterkind fought all the humans and we're systematically curbstomped by them.

Also based on what I read on the blogs and page, all we know is that the human soul at it's absolute peak is 8-B, but that does not mean any other human besides Frisk has reached it. And no, the creation of the barrier isn't evidence because combining souls to create the barrier does not correlate to using that much power in a battle.

The idea that Asgore even stood up to those top tier humans is just a hypothesis and headcanon, lore tells us that Asgore lost badly, as he is included in the general monsterkind stated to have "barely even fought the war", so even scaling Asgore to the mages is baseless.


So what we know is;
Asgore and top tier humans fought
Asgore lost the battle
Mages might scale to 8-B

Unfortunately this doesn't justify 8-B for Asgore because we have no way of know if Asgore even harmed said humans at the peak of their determination.

Also yes, human power level varies, so that's another variable for you. Even if Asgore did fight the humans, they'd only be 8-B at the peak of their determination and we have no way of knowing they were that determined against Asgore. Lore says Humans are stronger.

Before you say it, no, just because it's "technically possible" doesn't mean you're allowed to argue for a possibly rating. Possibly ratings still need some basis for it to work!

Why? Because then any hypothesis that could "technically be true" could pass off as a possibly rating. It needs to have something to support it, otherwise it's just a hypothesis.


I completely disagree with this, no possibly or likely either.

 

[Sans015]

Asgore will and always was stronger than all the other monsters including undyne. Remember base undyne couldn't even land a single hit so Undying would just give asgore a bit harder time but asgore will always win.

That is not true.

Undyne the Undying has 99 ATK and 99 DEF, while Asgore has 80 ATK and 80 DEF. She is stronger, harder, and likely more skilled in that form.

 

[ShionAH]

That is not true.

It is.

Undyne the Undying has 99 ATK and 99 DEF, while Asgore has 80 ATK and 80 DEF

Asgore is not in his prime + is depressed and holds back in the fight we also learn that the less the monsters want to fight the worse their stats are (Papyrus has shit stats in genocide because he doesnt wanna fight us)

likely more skilled in that form.

Big no no

 

[Comiphorous]

It is.

Asgore is not in his prime + is depressed and holds back in the fight we also learn that the less the monsters want to fight the worse their stats are (Papyrus has shit stats in genocide because he doesnt wanna fight us)

Big no no

Ah big yes yes.

Undyne is statistically stronger than asgore. you cannot fight this point. she's stronger, comparably skilled. and canonically knocked him on his ass.

she scales.

 

[Comiphorous]

Sooo, uh, no? Solid rating is out of the table. Likely too. But even possibly is not arguable here

All the irrefutable evidence presented to us by the game is that Asgore and monsterkind fought all the humans and we're systematically curbstomped by them.

Also based on what I read on the blogs and page, all we know is that the human soul at it's absolute peak is 8-B, but that does not mean any other human besides Frisk has reached it. And no, the creation of the barrier isn't evidence because combining souls to create the barrier does not correlate to using that much power in a battle.

The idea that Asgore even stood up to those top tier humans is just a hypothesis and headcanon, lore tells us that Asgore lost badly, as he is included in the general monsterkind stated to have "barely even fought the war", so even scaling Asgore to the mages is baseless.


So what we know is;
Asgore and top tier humans fought
Asgore lost the battle
Mages might scale to 8-B

Unfortunately this doesn't justify 8-B for Asgore because we have no way of know if Asgore even harmed said humans at the peak of their determination.

Also yes, human power level varies, so that's another variable for you. Even if Asgore did fight the humans, they'd only be 8-B at the peak of their determination and we have no way of knowing they were that determined against Asgore. Lore says Humans are stronger.

Before you say it, no, just because it's "technically possible" doesn't mean you're allowed to argue for a possibly rating. Possibly ratings still need some basis for it to work!

Why? Because then any hypothesis that could "technically be true" could pass off as a possibly rating. It needs to have something to support it, otherwise it's just a hypothesis.


I completely disagree with this, no possibly or likely either.

Also, the idea that asgore lost badly is headcanon too, canonically the war was "a long battle" which would imply they actually put up a fight.

regardless, your idea relies on none of humanities mages were 8-B, despite being able to use magic to create a Low Complex Multi/Multiversal structure to hold them underground. to say a group of weak humans could do that is rediculous.

 

[ShionAH]

Ah big yes yes.

Oh no no no

Undyne is statistically stronger than asgore.

When she is literally determined buffing herself while asgore is literally depressed and wants to die holding back-

she's stronger,

Debatable

comparably skilled

Nope.

and canonically knocked him on his ass.

When?