WWE Possible LS Upgrades

[RandomGuy2345]

Yes. I'm back at it with this verse's LS, and I'm back to get my petty ahh revenge on @Pikaman from the past LS CRT.

Anyways, I'mma try to keep this short and sweet.

John Cena performs this feat of strength, which is stated to be Superhuman by commentary. There's also another statement from commentary that states that Cena's strength is Superhuman.

Before I get into the juicy part, I'm going to quickly say that this is not a stamina feat. Some people I asked assumed this, and here's my refute:

Seth Rollins has done identical feats on two occasions. Commentary states that the feat Seth Rollins performed (which was identical to what Cena did) was a feat of strength.

Now since that's out of the way, time to get into the juicy part: Why Cena (and people comparable) should have Superhuman LS.

John Cena performs this feat of strength, which is stated to be Superhuman by commentary. There's also another statement from commentary that states that Cena's strength is Superhuman.

Of course, some might easily assume that they're just hyping up Cena by using flowery language, but I actually found some feats from Cena that might actually prove that this is not flowery language.

John Cena was able to power out of The Great Khali's grip. The Great Khali is comparable to the likes of Mark Henry in terms of LS, who's Class 25 for breaking a chain.

Now, I'm not saying that Cena should have Class 25 LS. From what we've seen, both Khali and Henry are for sure stronger, but to do what Cena did definitely requires Superhuman levels of strength, hence why I proposed this:

Since Cena was able to power out of Khali's grip (albeit greatly struggled), who's a Class 25'er, though he isn't as strong as Khali, I'd say that Cena (and others comparable), should have Superhuman LS, as it obviously takes superhuman levels of strength/effort in order to do this.

TL;DR: Superhuman LS for Cena, and others comparable.

 

[Flashlight237]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

 

[DivineAura44]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

Can't help but laugh at this lol.

 

[DivineAura44]

Can't help but laugh at this lol.

Dawg if I had a nickel for every time this bullshit happened

 

[Chariot190]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

I like to poke fun at WWE too, but kayfab does have some blatant inhuman feats like that chain breaking, which is dozens of times above the WR deadlift and the highest recorded grip and pull strength, which is done with equipment mind you. Humans can't really snap chains like that, it's why we make them in the first place.

The statements don't mean much imo, but if he scales to a Class 25 ******, just go with that instead of vague as hell potentially hyperbolic statements (because lifting that dude isn't superhuman).

 

[DemonicDude]

Can't help but laugh at this lol.

Can't help but like your comment random.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The statements don't mean much imo, but if he scales to a Class 25 ******, just go with that instead of vague as hell potentially hyperbolic statements (because lifting that dude isn't superhuman).

So you're proposing Class 5 to Class 25 John Cena?

 

[DemonicDude]

he said " but if he scales to"

 

[RandomGuy2345]

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I like to poke fun at WWE too, but kayfab does have some blatant inhuman feats like that chain breaking, which is dozens of times above the WR deadlift and the highest recorded grip and pull strength, which is done with equipment mind you. Humans can't really snap chains like that, it's why we make them in the first place.

The statements don't mean much imo, but if he scales to a Class 25 ******, just go with that instead of vague as hell potentially hyperbolic statements (because lifting that dude isn't superhuman).

This basically, if characters scale to Class 25 then just scale them to that, don't use instead something that very blatantly isn't superhuman.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

he said " but if he scales to"

Sorry...

This basically, if characters scale to Class 25 then just scale them to that, don't use instead something that very blatantly isn't superhuman.

I like to poke fun at WWE too, but kayfab does have some blatant inhuman feats like that chain breaking, which is dozens of times above the WR deadlift and the highest recorded grip and pull strength, which is done with equipment mind you. Humans can't really snap chains like that, it's why we make them in the first place.

The statements don't mean much imo, but if he scales to a Class 25 ******, just go with that instead of vague as hell potentially hyperbolic statements (because lifting that dude isn't superhuman).

I recommend waiting for other supporters like @Pikaman to come in and give his input.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Btw, just finished to see a few minutes ago Fast & Furious 9, so can say confidently that Dominic > Cena, so Family > WWE verse.

 

[DemonicDude]

Just finished watching ROH Final Battle and currently watching NXT Deadline, so I can confidently say Professional Wrestling >>>>> Football+movies+your favorite tv show.

 

[Pikaman]

Ok so the Seth Rollins feat obviously isn’t Superhuman if you just use your eyes, i’ve already addressed it, and The Great Khali grip is blatant “Everyone fights Everyone” syndrome. We don’t scale people to Superhuman LS because they’re below someone well into the > Peak Human Tiers at an unquantifiable level anyways

 

[Shmooply]

I agree with Pika and Chariot.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Ok so the Seth Rollins feat obviously isn’t Superhuman if you just use your eyes, i’ve already addressed it, and The Great Khali grip is blatant “Everyone fights Everyone” syndrome. We don’t scale people to Superhuman LS because they’re below someone well into the > Peak Human Tiers at an unquantifiable level anyways

I will respond to this soon.

 

[Pikaman]

I will respond to this soon.

Soooooo

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Soooooo

Was gathering some evidence from past WWE CRT's.

I'll be making my response now, but I'll like to say that the evidence of Cena (along with others) being able to give the strongmen of the WWE a good run for their money is making me really question the "Everyone fights Everyone" argument you're constantly bringing up.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So I was looking back at this thread, I've dug up some more proof that Cena (along with others), should have Superhuman strength at least, because at this point, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence.

Sheamus, someone who's comparable to Cena, was able to give Mark Henry a good run for his money in an arm wrestling contest, albeit ultimately losing in the end.

John Cena had Mark Henry on the ropes in an arm wrestling contest, too. Only this time, it looked like he was about to beat him until Randy Orton planned a sneak attack on him.

John Cena was able to power out of The Great Khali's grip, which is something I already mentioned, but it's to further drive my point home.

Now, in the previous thread where I mentioned these feats, @Pikaman mentioned the fact that someone comparable to the likes of Cena and Sheamus failed to do a Class 5 feat. However, there's a couple of issues I have with this:

1. We have no evidence that proves that this wrestler is on the same level of strength as Cena or even Sheamus. For all we know, both Cena and Sheamus could be stronger. But if there's nothing we can go off of, it's not a good idea to assume that the wrestler that failed to lift a car is on the level of both Cena and Sheamus. And no, going off of their physique isn't a smart way to do this. Someone can have a better physique than you, but still be weaker.

2. I'm inclined to believe that this is more so an outlier than a feat that completely contradicts multiple feats I've shown. I've shown 3 occasions of wrestlers who are currently listed to have Peak Human LS perform Superhuman feats of strength, compared to only 1 occasion where one wrestler where we don't know whether or not he's as strong as Cena or Sheamus, failed to do a Superhuman feat of strength. Out of those 4 feats, 3 of them are very clearly Superhuman. I'm not a genius when it comes to outliers on this wiki, but I'm pretty sure we would dismiss the one occasion as an outlier. That's like saying 1 8-C feat should overpower 3 9-B feats because that one 8-C feat "contradicts" what the 9-B feats have shown to do.

To sum it up, John Cena, and others comparable shouldn't have Class 25, or even Class 5 LS. They should have Superhuman LS, as the feats I've shown of Cena and Sheamus giving strongmen in the WWE a good run for their money clearly shows that it requires Superhuman levels of strength in order to do this.

 

[Pikaman]

but I'll like to say that the evidence of Cena (along with others) being able to give the strongmen of the WWE a good run for their money is making me really question the "Everyone fights Everyone" argument you're constantly bringing up.

Cena and Co. giving strongmen a run for their money is literally the evidence of the “Everyone fights Everyone” policy we adopt. If we threw it out you’d have to delete the verse along with it because scaling would become impossible.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Cena and Co. giving strongmen a run for their money is literally the evidence of the “Everyone fights Everyone” policy we adopt. If we threw it out you’d have to delete the verse along with it because scaling would become impossible.

Scaling is far from impossible.

Doing those feats requires at least Superhuman LS, so why wouldn't we assume that Cena and Co. have Superhuman LS? It's nowhere near as complicated as you're making it to be.

 

[Pikaman]

Scaling is far from impossible.

Doing those feats requires at least Superhuman LS, so why wouldn't we assume that Cena and Co. have Superhuman LS? It's nowhere near as complicated as you're making it to be.

No, you’re simplifying things beyond reason.

A: Superhuman LS is for incalculable but Superhuman feats, I’m like 85% sure you can’t be scaled to Superhuman Tier unless the person you scale to is Superhuman Tier.

B: We can’t do away with “Anyone fights Anyone” because it is a universal concept used across every bit of scaling in the verse, and staff have made it clear that without this solution the verse wouldn’t even be allowed because everyone would eventually manage to scale to everyone.

 

[Pikaman]

Bump

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah okay just scale him to Class 25, even if he's inferior, John Cena breaking free from the grasp of someone who scales to a Class 25 guy would make him Class 25 himself

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why, tho? These are flipping WWE Wrestlers. Even the weakest competitor in a World's Strongest Man qualifier is stronger than anything the WWE can dish out. Don't go overestimating a bunch of wrestlers.

To explain, these are about the Kayfabe Wrestlers, not the actual people. Its why the Undertaker has weird powers like flight or whatever.

So the OP is taking about Kayfabe John Cena. Not actual John Cena, who of course is just an incredibly fit person.

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah okay just scale him to Class 25, even if he's inferior, John Cena breaking free from the grasp of someone who scales to a Class 25 guy would make him Class 25 himself

No, that’s just not feasible.

WWE has had thousands if not millions of battles over its multi-decade history, with Superstars dancing around power levels like musical chairs over their tenures on the show(s) for no explicit reason. Staff made it clear at the conception of the verse that a system would have to be put in place to prevent circular scaling, at which point “Everyone Fights Everyone” fallacy/syndrome was born, a system that states that at some point everyone has beaten or posed a threat to everyone, and thus to scale people, we generalise their entire career performance. Finn Bálor has beaten Roman Reigns clean, but he doesn’t scale to Roman because that result is inconsistent with Finn’s matches against the likes of Kane and Brock Lesnar.

For similar reasons to how one fights outcome does, uniquely, not constitute scaling in WWE, breaking out of one hold, or even a small handful, is not enough to scale LS. They’re considered outliers to the rest of your career and how it is presented. WWE’s Class 5-25 rating is exclusive to “Strongmen”, characters who are explicitly presented as having LS being their defining factor, John Cena is not that.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

No, that’s just not feasible.

WWE has had thousands if not millions of battles over its multi-decade history, with Superstars dancing around power levels like musical chairs over their tenures on the show(s) for no explicit reason. Staff made it clear at the conception of the verse that a system would have to be put in place to prevent circular scaling, at which point “Everyone Fights Everyone” fallacy/syndrome was born, a system that states that at some point everyone has beaten or posed a threat to everyone, and thus to scale people, we generalise their entire career performance. Finn Bálor has beaten Roman Reigns clean, but he doesn’t scale to Roman because that result is inconsistent with Finn’s matches against the likes of Kane and Brock Lesnar.

For similar reasons to how one fights outcome does, uniquely, not constitute scaling in WWE, breaking out of one hold, or even a small handful, is not enough to scale LS. They’re considered outliers to the rest of your career and how it is presented. WWE’s Class 5-25 rating is exclusive to “Strongmen”, characters who are explicitly presented as having LS being their defining factor, John Cena is not that.

So a similar situation to what happen in fighting games were everyone can fight everyone at one point and thus eventually everything would be a big circular scaling unless we are strict with what we use to scale?

 

[Pikaman]

So a similar situation to what happen in fighting games were everyone can fight everyone at one point and thus eventually everything would be a big circular scaling unless we are strict with what we use to scale?

Pretty much. Instead of taking individual moments and using them for scaling, we generalise an entire character’s history and see where they most consistently line up in the hierarchy of the verse