Wuthering Waves Discussion Thread

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think the “higher beings” part was referring to entities like Leviathan and Imperator. Also, have we ever actually seen a Threnodian or a Sentinel at full power on Solaris? As far as I remember, we’ve only encountered manifestations or Avatars. In Jue’s case, his name even appears in quotation marks — “Jue” — as if that’s not his true self. And in the lore, the Sentinels of Huanglong seem to be just fragments or extensions of a much greater Sentinel.

Cristoforo was talking as if someone else is writing their own story. Not this kind of higher beings

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I think the “higher beings” part was referring to entities like Leviathan and Imperator. Also, have we ever actually seen a Threnodian or a Sentinel at full power on Solaris? As far as I remember, we’ve only encountered manifestations or Avatars. In Jue’s case, his name even appears in quotation marks — “Jue” — as if that’s not his true self. And in the lore, the Sentinels of Huanglong seem to be just fragments or extensions of a much greater Sentinel.

Spoiler mark that part, also no. We have yet to see any Sentinel's at full power, even assuming the Jue we see is not her real self (which there is not much to support this) we know Jue was massively injured in ancient times and literally on life support during the events of 1.1, Imperator was dealing with the corruption and assimilation of Leviathan throughout the entire events of 2.0 and even then, we are told from it that. It purposefully allowed Leviathan to continue to exist and heavily implied it could have killed it but chose instead to try to understand it.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Cristoforo was talking as if someone else is writing their own story. Not this kind of higher beings

Yeah its implying actual higher beings, like the one's in PGR.

 

[IStar0thh]

Cristoforo was talking as if someone else is writing their own story. Not this kind of higher beings

Fair enough. But I do hope they handle the power scaling more gradually. It feels odd when characters suddenly jump from, say, 6-B straight to 1-C+. I think it would make more sense if the Sentinels and Threnodians were introduced as higher-end 3-A/2C+ beings first — and then we could work our way up to something beyond that. Sometimes their descriptions are just too vague for proper scaling.

 

[IStar0thh]

Yeah its implying actual higher beings, like the one's in PGR.

I’m not too familiar with PGR, but are you saying there’s an existence similar to Ismael’s?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I’m not too familiar with PGR, but are you saying there’s an existence similar to Ismael’s?

No, I'm not saying that is or isn't the case. I'm simply hinting at the possibility of it, "higher beings" does not by default mean anything beyond existing in higher than 4-5D space at the moment considering where the verse scales currently. Likewise it could mean existing as a 1A entity for all we know, the meaning is incredibly broad and vague for now and can range from anywhere between these 2 spectrums. All I know is that Kuro means it in a more literal sense.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah its implying actual higher beings, like the one's in PGR.

I'm currently in chapter 6. Well now that I finished WuWa MSQ I will find some time to continue on that

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Fair enough. But I do hope they handle the power scaling more gradually. It feels odd when characters suddenly jump from, say, 6-B straight to 1-C+. I think it would make more sense if the Sentinels and Threnodians were introduced as higher-end 3-A/2C+ beings first — and then we could work our way up to something beyond that. Sometimes their descriptions are just too vague for proper scaling.

I mean that is a power scaling thing mostly, typically the reason characters jump from 6B to any higher tier is due to an introduction of a UES. For example, Cristoforo is 6B rn but if forte's were to be accepted as a UES in the future he'd jump to as high as L2C just via his creation of multiple Sonoro Sphere's that are seemingly spatially and temporally disconnected from each other. 9/10 times it's UES that allows characters to either skip tiers, or reach high tiers seemingly without adequate physical showings this is pretty much what happens with a lot of series beyond tier 2.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I'm currently in chapter 6. Well now that I finished WuWa MSQ I will find some time to continue on that

Yeah I see the SKK pfp, god speed trekking through the first like 8 chapters.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Btw why no one is talking about Abby
Also Calculator. Bruh came Aura Farmed and went like a Ghost he is. Not to mention Galbrena acknowledged bruh is strong.
Carlotta grandfather too.

 

[FanSyst]

A friend told me that Abby might be the creator of the Trenodians. He suggested that this was why the protagonist was called mother.

My mind exploded.

 

[IStar0thh]

I mean that is a power scaling thing mostly, typically the reason characters jump from 6B to any higher tier is due to an introduction of a UES. For example, Cristoforo is 6B rn but if forte's were to be accepted as a UES in the future he'd jump to as high as L2C just via his creation of multiple Sonoro Sphere's that are seemingly spatially and temporally disconnected from each other. 9/10 times it's UES that allows characters to either skip tiers, or reach high tiers seemingly without adequate physical showings this is pretty much what happens with a lot of series beyond tier 2.

UES stands for Universal Energy System, right?
By the way, I agree that the Sonor Spheres seem spatially and temporally disconnected from each other, but would that alone be enough to qualify as an L2-C structure? Wouldn't they need to meet a certain scale/Size or condition for that?
And thanks for the answers, I'm learning a lot from you

 

[IStar0thh]

Btw why no one is talking about Abby
Also Calculator. Bruh came Aura Farmed and went like a Ghost he is. Not to mention Galbrena acknowledged bruh is strong.
Carlotta grandfather too.

He only appeared to farm aura before disappearing again, but it looks like we'll find him in New Federation.

 

[IStar0thh]

A friend told me that Abby might be the creator of the Trenodians. He suggested that this was why the protagonist was called mother.

My mind exploded.

I don’t think he was the creator of the Threnodians, since it’s stated that they were born from humanity’s "negative emotions" Aka The shadow of humanity. That’s why they’re basically immortal. Maybe Abby was just their leader or something like that.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

UES stands for Universal Energy System, right?

Yeah.

By the way, I agree that the Sonor Spheres seem spatially and temporally disconnected from each other, but would that alone be enough to qualify as an L2-C structure? Wouldn't they need to meet a certain scale/Size or condition for that?

It does vary, when you have pocket dimensions/alternate realities with separate space-times and some form of support for their significance in size getting them accepted as L2C structures is possible depending on the brevity of the support behind their significance. I kinda just said L2C off handedly, whether Cristoforo's Sonoro Spheres would actually qualify or not will definitely require some more observation and scrutinization. Since, while they are spatially and temporally disconnected from the normal world the exact size of them is still debatable. At the very least, it should qualify for tier 4 since it not only has a day and night cycle but countless stars in the sky as well. Not to mention he's created multiple of these, I believe we have a confirmed number of at least 3 Sonoro's he made of this size.

And thanks for the answers, I'm learning a lot from you

Np.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

At least Country level (Far superior to Jiyan who performed this feat)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Far superior to Chixia who casually dodged lightning)

Lifting Strength: Unknown

Striking Strength: At least Country level (Far superior to Jiyan who performed this feat)

Durability: At least Country level (Far superior to Jiyan who can fight and take the blows of Dreamless who has comparable attack power to himself)

At least explain why is he superior to jiyan bro wtf is this Genshin Impact type of profiles lol
p&A looks goated tho

 

[IStar0thh]

At least explain why is he superior to jiyan bro wtf is this Genshin Impact type of profiles lol
p&A looks goated tho

Is this Cristoforo’s profile? I think we can use Rover and Cartethyia as references. Rover (Spectro 1.0) was already on par with Jiyan, but he needed both Havoc and Aero to defeat Cartethyia — while Cristoforo was able to fight her ""effortlessly"".

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Is this Cristoforo’s profile? I think we can use Rover and Cartethyia as references. Rover (Spectro 1.0) was already on par with Jiyan, but he needed both Havoc and Aero to defeat Cartethyia — while Cristoforo was able to fight her ""effortlessly"".

Effortlessly? Hell no

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

At least explain why is he superior to jiyan bro wtf is this Genshin Impact type of profiles lol
p&A looks goated tho

Yeah I was about to ask this here. It should be well detailed.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

At least explain why is he superior to jiyan bro wtf is this Genshin Impact type of profiles lol

This is pretty minor and self evident, I haven't bothered focusing on something like this for the heavy hitting profiles because it's just incredibly obvious. I primarily detail it more for characters who people might have a more difficult time understanding the relevancy for. I can do that though, just been pretty busy actually making the profiles to begin with.

 

[IStar0thh]

Folks, I’d like to share a few suggestions to help improve your profiles.
It’s just some additional context that might be useful, since many profiles simply state that a character is “superior to Jiyan,” without much elaboration.

Phrolova:
Phrolova managed to face Rover (Havoc), Roccia, Brant, and Carlotta during Rinascita — and still came out on top. Rover (Havoc) alone is already superior to Jiyan, so she should be roughly on par with that version of the Rover. She also briefly clashed with Rover (Aero) when unleashing her full power, though she could only keep up for a few seconds, meaning she’s ultimately weaker than Rover (Aero).

Jinhsi:
Jinhsi fought Jue in 1.1 — and unless I’m misremembering, it was mentioned that Jue had previously been stopped by the Fractsidus Overseers??? I'm not sure. Moreover, even without her Second Awakening, Jinhsi proved far superior to Scar, who should be comparable to Spectro Rover — itself on the same general level as Jiyan.

Cristoforo:
As I mentioned earlier, Cristoforo should be comparable to Cartethyia, since he was able to defend against and react to one of her powerful attacks. And considering Cartethyia gave Rover (with three attributes) a hard time, that speaks volumes about Cristoforo’s level.

Note on Augusta’s profile:
It’s worth clarifying that Augusta fought a restrained Rover. He wasn’t fighting to kill and only used one element, yet he still completely overwhelmed her. The scene makes it clear that she was barely able to defend herself.

 

[FanSyst]

Is this Cristoforo’s profile? I think we can use Rover and Cartethyia as references. Rover (Spectro 1.0) was already on par with Jiyan, but he needed both Havoc and Aero to defeat Cartethyia — while Cristoforo was able to fight her ""effortlessly"".

I don't think Cristoforo is oriented towards direct confrontations, he just blocked a casual attack from Carte/Fleur.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Folks, I’d like to share a few suggestions to help improve your profiles.
It’s just some additional context that might be useful, since many profiles simply state that a character is “superior to Jiyan,” without much elaboration.

Phrolova:
Phrolova managed to face Rover (Havoc), Roccia, Brant, and Carlotta during Rinascita — and still came out on top. Rover (Havoc) alone is already superior to Jiyan, so she should be roughly on par with that version of the Rover. She also briefly clashed with Rover (Aero) when unleashing her full power, though she could only keep up for a few seconds, meaning she’s ultimately weaker than Rover (Aero).

Jinhsi:
Jinhsi fought Jue in 1.1 — and unless I’m misremembering, it was mentioned that Jue had previously been stopped by the Fractsidus Overseers??? I'm not sure. Moreover, even without her Second Awakening, Jinhsi proved far superior to Scar, who should be comparable to Spectro Rover — itself on the same general level as Jiyan.

Cristoforo:
As I mentioned earlier, Cristoforo should be comparable to Cartethyia, since he was able to defend against and react to one of her powerful attacks. And considering Cartethyia gave Rover (with three attributes) a hard time, that speaks volumes about Cristoforo’s level.

Note on Augusta’s profile:
It’s worth clarifying that Augusta fought a restrained Rover. He wasn’t fighting to kill and only used one element, yet he still completely overwhelmed her. The scene makes it clear that she was barely able to defend herself.

I mean there are a few problems here, elaboration on some of the profiles is fine. However Cristoforo does not actually ever really "fight" he blocks an attack and that's literally it, the Augusta thing doesn't have to be clarified because countless characters fight against weakened versions of existing characters that still effortlessly scale above Jiyan. The main reason it is all Jiyan coded is because that's the only actual calc we have accepted for AP & durability. It will naturally become more varied when we get more calcs.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don't think Cristoforo is oriented towards direct confrontations, he just blocked a casual attack from Carte/Fleur.

Yeah this, still considering characters like Zani and Lupa are able to physically combat Leviathan in the finale its obvious Cristoforo could replicate this.

 

[IStar0thh]

I don't think Cristoforo is oriented towards direct confrontations, he just blocked a casual attack from Carte/Fleur.

I don’t think that was a casual attack at all. If I’m not mistaken, it’s the same one she used against the Rover (when he was holding Cartethyia in his arms). But that's okay, we can work towards something more concrete.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don’t think that was a casual attack at all. If I’m not mistaken, it’s the same one she used against the Rover (when he was holding Cartethyia in his arms). But that's okay, we can work towards something more concrete.

It was indeed the same attack, the point is it's a durability feat via forcefield creation. Still like I said he scales above majority of the characters who were in the finale shown fighting comparatively to Leviathan who is obviously above Jiyan even as weakened as it is.

At least explain why is he superior to jiyan bro wtf is this Genshin Impact type of profiles lol
p&A looks goated tho

It was changed.

 

[IStar0thh]

Yeah this, still considering characters like Zani and Lupa are able to physically combat Leviathan in the finale its obvious Cristoforo could replicate this.

I might be a little drunk here, but wasn’t the whole gang buffed by Rinascita’s will? After Leviathan throws the black sphere, it seemed like everyone was going to die, but then Cartethyia pulled the collective will of all the people of Rinascita into Leviathan’s Realm. The golden pillars represented their will, and she also used that same force to imprison Leviathan. At least to me, it implied they were stronger than usual.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I might be a little drunk here, but wasn’t the whole gang buffed by Rinascita’s will? After Leviathan throws the black sphere, it seemed like everyone was going to die, but then Cartethyia pulled the collective will of all the people of Rinascita into Leviathan’s Realm. The golden pillars represented their will, and she also used that same force to imprison Leviathan. At least to me, it implied they were stronger than usual.

There's no proof that buffed their physical stats, it just gave them resistance against the chunk of Dark Tide. Though I completely understand where you're coming from, the fact characters like Roccia & Brant can contribute to the fight against Leviathan might have thrown some people off so I will explain this. Every major character in the final act (aside from Fractsidus) are actually nerfed in that fight, I will list off the nerfs that are told to us.

• Galbrena: Loses an unquantifiable amount of stored TDs during her fight with GA which we know contribute heavily not just to her P&A but physical statistics as well as having to sacrifice even more TDs to save Rover
• Rover: Nerfing himself/holding back the entire time by not using his resonance power as much to suppress the DT
• Cartethyia: Cannot use Fleur transformation or Sentinel/Leviathan based powers for the entire patch
• Leviathan: Incredibly weakened and has like less than 50% of it's power throughout the entire story past ver 2.2

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

So with these facts in mind, it's not really all too unbelievable why certain characters people believe shouldn't of done anything were able to contribute to a certain degree at least. The heavy hitters and even the final boss were all nerfed/holding back by a fairly substantial degree.

 

[IStar0thh]

I mean there are a few problems here, elaboration on some of the profiles is fine. However Cristoforo does not actually ever really "fight" he blocks an attack and that's literally it, the Augusta thing doesn't have to be clarified because countless characters fight against weakened versions of existing characters that still effortlessly scale above Jiyan. The main reason it is all Jiyan coded is because that's the only actual calc we have accepted for AP & durability. It will naturally become more varied when we get more calcs.

Fair enough. But I think it’s good to specify the circumstances — especially since Rover tends to scale up significantly in power. If we just say she fought Rover, and then someone checks Rover’s profile and sees a much higher tier, it might look inconsistent. Anyway, are you making the profiles yourself? I can try to help by adding some extra information — you can always remove whatever you find unnecessary later.

We could phrase it like:

“Fought with Spectro Rover (Jinzhou arc)”

“Fought with Rinascita Rover”

That way, the context of each fight is clear, and people can immediately tell which version or power level of Rover we’re referring to. It also helps avoid confusion when scaling or comparing characters across different arcs.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

We could phrase it like:

“Fought with Rinascita Rover”

That way, the context of each fight is clear, and people can immediately tell which version or power level of Rover we’re referring to. It also helps avoid confusion when scaling or comparing characters across different arcs.

This will become more relevant once I make Rover's profile, but even then it isn't that simple because Rover tends to hold back a lot against opponents who aren't deviants or actually powerful. Not to mention, a lot of the profiles can't even use Rover as justification because they don't fight him. Not to mention as I already explained above, the Rinascita arc's power scaling is a bit confusing if you aren't paying extra attention because a lot of the characters are perpetually nerfed due to various circumstances.

 

[IStar0thh]

There's no proof that buffed their physical stats, it just gave them resistance against the chunk of Dark Tide. Though I completely understand where you're coming from, the fact characters like Roccia & Brant can contribute to the fight against Leviathan might have thrown some people off so I will explain this. Every major character in the final act (aside from Fractsidus) are actually nerfed in that fight, I will list off the nerfs that are told to us.

• Galbrena: Loses an unquantifiable amount of stored TDs during her fight with GA which we know contribute heavily not just to her P&A but physical statistics as well as having to sacrifice even more TDs to save Rover
• Rover: Nerfing himself/holding back the entire time by not using his resonance power as much to suppress the DT
• Cartethyia: Cannot use Fleur transformation or Sentinel/Leviathan based powers for the entire patch
• Leviathan: Incredibly weakened and has like less than 50% of it's power throughout the entire story past ver 2.2

Well, that helps a lot. But we have to remember that Galbrena regained her resonance ability, so she might not have been that weakened. Leviathan was just an avatar, so that doesn’t really matter for me(In my opinion It real body should scale at least close to Imperator).

Its frequency, once bound by the Sentinel's shackles, was reborn through the Gem. Taking the form of the once Blessed Maiden, Fleurdelys, It made Itself a vessel anew.

Weekly Challenge: Dark End : Leviathan avatar rises with the Boundless Dark Tide, seeking to unify the world in Eternal darkness. Stand against the end, and fight for the faintest hope of dawn.

Since the game explicitly states that it’s just an avatar, it naturally leaves room for weaker characters to hold their own or even make an impact against it.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Well, that helps a lot. But we have to remember that Galbrena regained her resonance ability, so she might not have been that weakened.

Her resonance ability under absolutely any circumstances cannot make up for her losing dozens of abilities and stat amps worth of TDs and frequencies.

Since the game explicitly states that it’s just an avatar, it naturally leaves room for weaker characters to hold their own or even make an impact against it.

Yeah, not only is it an avatar but it's entire source of power comes from the gem that was verbatim stated to be "a fragment" of its frequency as Cartethyia herself confirmed she had most of it. So being generous we can say Leviathan is at 25% power, realistically it's probably closer to like 10 or 15% honestly. Let's also not forget that Cartethyia was nerfing it with her powers too.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Folks, I’d like to share a few suggestions to help improve your profiles.
It’s just some additional context that might be useful, since many profiles simply state that a character is “superior to Jiyan,” without much elaboration.

Phrolova:
Phrolova managed to face Rover (Havoc), Roccia, Brant, and Carlotta during Rinascita — and still came out on top. Rover (Havoc) alone is already superior to Jiyan, so she should be roughly on par with that version of the Rover. She also briefly clashed with Rover (Aero) when unleashing her full power, though she could only keep up for a few seconds, meaning she’s ultimately weaker than Rover (Aero).

Jinhsi:
Jinhsi fought Jue in 1.1 — and unless I’m misremembering, it was mentioned that Jue had previously been stopped by the Fractsidus Overseers??? I'm not sure. Moreover, even without her Second Awakening, Jinhsi proved far superior to Scar, who should be comparable to Spectro Rover — itself on the same general level as Jiyan.

Cristoforo:
As I mentioned earlier, Cristoforo should be comparable to Cartethyia, since he was able to defend against and react to one of her powerful attacks. And considering Cartethyia gave Rover (with three attributes) a hard time, that speaks volumes about Cristoforo’s level.

Note on Augusta’s profile:
It’s worth clarifying that Augusta fought a restrained Rover. He wasn’t fighting to kill and only used one element, yet he still completely overwhelmed her. The scene makes it clear that she was barely able to defend herself.

Verse doesn't have UES. so durability and AP should be seperated. Also What was Cristoforo best AP feats? As far as I see him spamming TDs to keep others company and hax with his SP to trap them up

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Verse doesn't have UES. so durability and AP should be seperated.

Yeah we can only scale characters to what they are physically shown doing, the reason it's easy to scale AP to durability despite the lack of UES is because Jiyan's feat is done extremely casually and arguing majority of the antagonists scale above his casual strike that he performs when not even trying that hard is just a given and isn't all that contentious in the slightest.

Also What was Cristoforo best AP feats? As far as I see him spamming TDs to keep others company and hax with his SP to trap them up

He's yet to throw a punch or kick, but considering every other Fractsidus (including Phrolova who also has yet to throw a punch or kick and is not really a H2H combatant either) yet is still able to physically hold her own against Rover scaling him similarly to her is pretty consistent. Not to mention the 2.7 finale gives us more avenues to upscale, like I don't think I need to explain why he casually scales above characters like Roccia's suitcase Echo and Zani's strikes in her base form.

 

[IStar0thh]

Verse doesn't have UES. so durability and AP should be seperated. Also What was Cristoforo best AP feats? As far as I see him spamming TDs to keep others company and hax with his SP to trap them up

I read about the UES. Is it impossible for Wuwa to have UES, or have we just not seen enough feat yet? Fiction usually tends to include UES, right? It’s pretty common to see characters that scale like that. Though if it ends up being a Dragon Ball–type series, I’d rather pass — the power scaling there feels a bit too chaotic for me.

 

[IStar0thh]

Peak Va

 

[IStar0thh]

Yeah we can only scale characters to what they are physically shown doing, the reason it's easy to scale AP to durability despite the lack of UES is because Jiyan's feat is done extremely casually and arguing majority of the antagonists scale above his casual strike that he performs when not even trying that hard is just a given and isn't all that contentious in the slightest.

He's yet to throw a punch or kick, but considering every other Fractsidus (including Phrolova who also has yet to throw a punch or kick and is not really a H2H combatant either) yet is still able to physically hold her own against Rover scaling him similarly to her is pretty consistent. Not to mention the 2.7 finale gives us more avenues to upscale, like I don't think I need to explain why he casually scales above characters like Roccia's suitcase Echo and Zani's strikes in her base form.

Also, I’m not sure how helpful this is, but during the fight, most of the cast didn’t seem capable of dealing any significant damage to Leviathan, aside from Rover, Galbrena, and Cartethyia. If I’m not mistaken, the only time Leviathan was actually injured was when Rover attacked. So even though Roccia, Brant, and the others could keep up with the fight, there was still a clear difference.

Anyway, are we opening a new CRT once the profiles are done, or was the last one already approved?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah we can only scale characters to what they are physically shown doing, the reason it's easy to scale AP to durability despite the lack of UES is because Jiyan's feat is done extremely casually and arguing majority of the antagonists scale above his casual strike that he performs when not even trying that hard is just a given and isn't all that contentious in the slightest.

Jiyan is a physical fighter and other similar 5 star physical fighters can scale to it. Other than we should seperate forte and physical strength and durability based on feats.

He's yet to throw a punch or kick, but considering every other Fractsidus (including Phrolova who also has yet to throw a punch or kick and is not really a H2H combatant either) yet is still able to physically hold her own against Rover scaling him similarly to her is pretty consistent. Not to mention the 2.7 finale gives us more avenues to upscale, like I don't think I need to explain why he casually scales above characters like Roccia's suitcase Echo and Zani's strikes in her base form.

I disagree with this. This is not an good reason to scale his AP to other members. If Phrolova has similar rating just rework on that. 2 wrongs doesn't make it right. You can scale Cristoforo to Jiyan feat with his forte while his physical might be unknown rating. I disagree with him being able throw punches stronger Zani or being stronger than Roccia suitcase automatically without him physically showing some feats. Phrolova has physical feats btw. It's really also not a good example.