Wuthering Waves Discussion Thread

[AlipheeseXIV]

Second Awakening was supposed to be replacement for Sentinel powers. That was the whole point of Jue vs Jinshi. I think there was even a statement from Jue about it might surpass him.

I highly disagree with this but if you guys are all on board with Eldemade's logic, let me know before the next thread. The next one I have planned is for Jue & Jinhsi so.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Also we should upscale Carthe since she also completed her second reasonance awakening, and not to mention she's the reasonator of Leviathan and imperator

It was Canterella who had second Awakening and gave up so that Cartwheel can fight Leviathan.

Yeah he has resistance but currently there are no feats that put him on par with Jue's creation feat of a 2B-2A realm. All we know is that due to his status he has resistance to their hax/the ability to inflict death on them, just not entirely sure if it's fair to scale him to Jue's creation feat. He also doesn't have any relevant scaling at all to Tethy's at the moment, but to be fair Tethy's is like kind of an outlier.

Are you only planning on scaling Jue & Jinshi to that?
Hear me out on this Rover takes the energy and transfers to Jinshi. Jinshi body starts falling apart. Which didn't happen to Rover. Then we have Abby saying Rover absorbing energy in Inverted tower made his storage almost full which didn't happen during Jue case. Rover should be stronger than Jinshi and Jue that's what I think or atleast he should be relative to them.

Yeah he should be able to, but we haven't seen him use temporal mandate yet. We just know he resists it.

Nah, Augusta can't break out of a Sonoro regardless of the size. She has no strong resonance ability to do so, and Sonoro's are composed purely of remnant energy aka AE type 1. She wouldn't be able to do anything due to that, at least not based off her current feats and most importantly statements.

Changli literally burns it down. Also we have this. I can see her breaking it through if it's too small

Found this

Yeah, probably not tbh. Maybe at most Fractsidus and Jinhsi but not many at all.

Honestly I don't think we should scale Jinshi, she lacks any notable speed feats. It should be case by case. But Fracts sure since they can survive cartwheel attack and escape.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I highly disagree with this but if you guys are all on board with Eldemade's logic, let me know before the next thread. The next one I have planned is for Jue & Jinhsi so.

I'm on board with relative scaling even if we don't scale one above another.

 

[Chronster]

Changli literally burns it down. Also we have this. I can see her breaking it through if it's too small

Although Changli did burn down a sonoro, afaik there’s not much (if any) that suggests it’s universal for resonators that a resonator can do with a high enough mastery of their forte.

It’s not really the matter of range either. It could be a specific characteristic of Changli’s forte after she has sufficient amount of master over her forte since iirc so far only Changli has displayed such a thing (either that or it was the special condition of the sonoro though I don’t recall anything that suggest this)

Anyway, it’d be strange to say Augusta could do the same thing Changli did when their fortes are different. Or in other words, it’d be strange to apply Changli’s feat to Augusta since afaik there’s no statement that such feat is universal to other characters as far as we know.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Are you only planning on scaling Jue & Jinshi to that?

I was only planning to scale Jue to that, because there aren't any actual feats to scale Jue's Sonoro to Jinhsi (even with 2nd awakening), Rover, Cartethyia or any of the Fractsidus, etc. This would also cause an inevitable scaling chain that would end up with characters who realistically shouldn't scale to 2B or 2A.

Hear me out on this Rover takes the energy and transfers to Jinshi. Jinshi body starts falling apart. Which didn't happen to Rover. Then we have Abby saying Rover absorbing energy in Inverted tower made his storage almost full which didn't happen during Jue case. Rover should be stronger than Jinshi and Jue that's what I think or atleast he should be relative to them.

It wasn't energy, but access. We don't really know enough about how Sentinel access works at the moment to confidently say it acts as some sort of UES. So I'm not entirely sure about this.

Changli literally burns it down. Also we have this. I can see her breaking it through if it's too small

Well yes but Augusta is not Changli, Changli has an actual strong resonance power that allows her to interact with Sonoro. Augusta does not have that, she has no resonance power outside of just small range magnetism. It cannot be argued that she can do the same thing as Changli.

Honestly I don't think we should scale Jinshi, she lacks any notable speed feats. It should be case by case. But Fracts sure since they can survive cartwheel attack and escape.

We can scale Jinhsi to Chixia's speed feat just like everyone else and that is more than enough.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Although Changli did burn down a sonoro, afaik there’s not much (if any) that suggests it’s universal for resonators that a resonator can do with a high enough mastery of their forte.

It’s not really the matter of range either. It could be a specific characteristic of Changli’s forte after she has sufficient amount of master over her forte since iirc so far only Changli has displayed such a thing (either that or it was the special condition of the sonoro though I don’t recall anything that suggest this)

Anyway, it’d be strange to say Augusta could do the same thing Changli did when their fortes are different. Or in other words, it’d be strange to apply Changli’s feat to Augusta since afaik there’s no statement that such feat is universal to other characters as far as we know.

Well yes but Augusta is not Changli, Changli has an actual strong resonance power that allows her to interact with Sonoro. Augusta does not have that, she has no resonance power outside of just small range magnetism. It cannot be argued that she can do the same thing as Changli.

When did it's required you to interact with Space-time or any abstractions to destroy a pocket dimension? If a pocket dimension is room sized and characters having higher DC shouldn't be able to destroy them?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I was only planning to scale Jue to that, because there aren't any actual feats to scale Jue's Sonoro to Jinhsi (even with 2nd awakening), Rover, Cartethyia or any of the Fractsidus, etc. This would also cause an inevitable scaling chain that would end up with characters who realistically shouldn't scale to 2B or 2A.

I think Jue Sonoro Sphere should be only Low 2-C while Tethys should be 2-B/2-A.
I'll comment on that later. As for no one scales to Rover aside from Cartwheel properly. So I don't think it would make any inconsistency. If we consider Phrolova having created Beyond and maintaining it through her power and Cristoforo case study would be supporting enough I think.

It wasn't energy, but access. We don't really know enough about how Sentinel access works at the moment to confidently say it acts as some sort of UES. So I'm not entirely sure about this.

Rover was transferring the energy though? I got few other examples like how Phrolova maintains her Sonoro Sphere with her own power or Cristoforo Sonoro Sphere where cartwheel stated she damaged them enough to the point it weakened.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

When did it's required you to interact with Space-time or any abstractions to destroy a pocket dimension? If a pocket dimension is room sized and characters having higher DC shouldn't be able to destroy them?

No, it's not that you need to interact with space-time but remnant energy. Sonoro's are composed of remnant energy, the frequencies there can be brought together again. To the point where someone who has a literal godlike resonance power like Carlotta that makes Augusta an actual fodder in comparison was unable to completely destroy a Sonoro without diligently breaking it down due to the link she had to her Mirror self.

There is no way for Augusta to destroy a Sonoro regardless of it's size unless she has a strong resonance ability that allows for her to physically interact with it and even that alone would not be enough. It is not just a typical pocket dimension, Sonoro's are way better than that.

I think Jue Sonoro Sphere should be only Low 2-C while Tethys should be 2-B/2-A.

Fair enough.

I'll comment on that later. As for no one scales to Rover aside from Cartwheel properly. So I don't think it would make any inconsistency. If we consider Phrolova having created Beyond and maintaining it through her power and Cristoforo case study would be supporting enough I think.

Well currently yeah, but we don't want to be too lenient in making potential scaling chains like that. I've seen some verse's completely cook a scaling chain all because of logical oversights. I'm just trying to make sure we are as faithful, clear and concise with this as humanly possible because well...idk about you guys but when I care/work on a verse the most important thing for me is staying true to it.

Rover was transferring the energy though? I got few other examples like how Phrolova maintains her Sonoro Sphere with her own power or Cristoforo Sonoro Sphere where cartwheel stated she damaged them enough to the point it weakened.

Unless I am remembering incorrectly I do not recall that it was a source of energy, I recall it being referred to as access, the methodology of the wording used as well as the high tech of things like the black shores also implies it more so being akin to something like the access you might give someone for a computer (as a very rough example) as such, even if it was energy we'd first need it to be accepted as a form of UES for it to scale to a creation feat. However, due to not knowing exactly how this form of Sentinel based access/energy whatever you want to call it works, it is hard to come to that conclusion at the moment.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Also forgot to mention, because it's a transdimensional space. Sonoro's have a form of acaus type 4, as transdimensional spaces are a region that exists beyond the three spatial dimensions and one time dimension that is typically perceived. Often times, the term can also be used metaphorically to describe a liminal space that blurs the boundaries between different concepts, such as natural and unnatural. Given these real world statements and how Sonoro's are supported and work similarly to how it is described in the 2 links provided they'd have a form of acaus type 4. 2 of the staff that saw the CRT also seem to agree with this, so there is that to take into account as well.

 

[Shiraito983]

It was Canterella who had second Awakening and gave up so that Cartwheel can fight Leviathan.

It was mentioned in her reasonance report menu that she finished her second reasonance when she merged with herself

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Also forgot to mention, because it's a transdimensional space. Sonoro's have a form of acaus type 4, as transdimensional spaces are a region that exists beyond the three spatial dimensions and one time dimension that is typically perceived. Often times, the term can also be used metaphorically to describe a liminal space that blurs the boundaries between different concepts, such as natural and unnatural. Given these real world statements and how Sonoro's are supported and work similarly to how it is described in the 2 links provided they'd have a form of acaus type 4. 2 of the staff that saw the CRT also seem to agree with this, so there is that to take into account as well.

Fair enough

No, it's not that you need to interact with space-time but remnant energy. Sonoro's are composed of remnant energy, the frequencies there can be brought together again. To the point where someone who has a literal godlike resonance power like Carlotta that makes Augusta an actual fodder in comparison was unable to completely destroy a Sonoro without diligently breaking it down due to the link she had to her Mirror self.

There is no way for Augusta to destroy a Sonoro regardless of it's size unless she has a strong resonance ability that allows for her to physically interact with it and even that alone would not be enough. It is not just a typical pocket dimension, Sonoro's are way better than that.

I don’t think Carlotta is a fair or good example. First of all, she doesn’t have enough range to destroy the Mirror World, which seems to contain at least a sun from what I can see. Augusta having weak Resonator skills isn’t about lacking an AOE attack, and the same goes for the others. From what I understand, it’s talking about power in terms of AP. Heck, even an NPC like Avidius has better Resonator ability than Augusta, yet he never showcased any AOE powers. As far as I’ve seen, only Changli and Cartwheel have demonstrated large-scale AOE powers. What I’m saying is that Carlotta’s inability to destroy the Mirror World comes from her lack of range rather than her Resonator abilities.

Regarding Augusta, I’m specifically talking about the attack that killed the Fake Sovereign, who had regeneration and immortality thanks to DT. She used the reverberations of the dead, which I think should be able to interact with the Sonoro Sphere even if what you said is true.

And just to clarify, I’m not saying it applies to every Sonoro Sphere—only when its size is too small.

Well currently yeah, but we don't want to be too lenient in making potential scaling chains like that. I've seen some verse's completely cook a scaling chain all because of logical oversights. I'm just trying to make sure we are as faithful, clear and concise with this as humanly possible because well...idk about you guys but when I care/work on a verse the most important thing for me is staying true to it.

As I already mentioned, we should scale characters on a case-by-case basis. Changli destroyed a Sonoro Sphere that contained a sun, Beyond had a night and day cycle, and Cristoforo’s Sonoro Sphere also had a night and day cycle, so just scale them to that. It’s not like Rover goes all out against everyone—he only went all out against Cartwheel, who has basically been smoking everyone in the verse so far.

Unless I am remembering incorrectly I do not recall that it was a source of energy, I recall it being referred to as access, the methodology of the wording used as well as the high tech of things like the black shores also implies it more so being akin to something like the access you might give someone for a computer (as a very rough example) as such, even if it was energy we'd first need it to be accepted as a form of UES for it to scale to a creation feat. However, due to not knowing exactly how this form of Sentinel based access/energy whatever you want to call it works, it is hard to come to that conclusion at the moment.

I'll check the scene again. I also don't remember it clearly.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It was mentioned in her reasonance report menu that she finished her second reasonance when she merged with herself

Great. I didn't checked that.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don’t think Carlotta is a fair or good example. First of all, she doesn’t have enough range to destroy the Mirror World, which seems to contain at least a sun from what I can see. Augusta having weak Resonator skills isn’t about lacking an AOE attack, and the same goes for the others. From what I understand, it’s talking about power in terms of AP. Heck, even an NPC like Avidius has better Resonator ability than Augusta, yet he never showcased any AOE powers. As far as I’ve seen, only Changli and Cartwheel have demonstrated large-scale AOE powers. What I’m saying is that Carlotta’s inability to destroy the Mirror World comes from her lack of range rather than her Resonator abilities.

The main point is Carlotta has the definitive best resonance power of any non sentinel resonator/fractsidus character in the entire story to date, this includes Augusta (and even then she is actually on par with sentinel resonators/fractsidus in terms of resonance power alone). She has far superior range and DC than Augusta yet, even someone like her was unable to inflict any meaningful damage to the Sonoro. Her ability literally erases frequencies from existence, my point was even someone with the power to directly interact with and completely erase the aspect of interaction required to destroy a Sonoro, she was not able to do it without going through hoops.

In this example, her range is completely irrelevant. As, even if she did have the range it would not change the fact that she was unable to directly destroy it anyways. So it doesn't boil down to just having higher DC than the size of the Sonoro itself.

Regarding Augusta, I’m specifically talking about the attack that killed the Fake Sovereign, who had regeneration and immortality thanks to DT. She used the reverberations of the dead, which I think should be able to interact with the Sonoro Sphere even if what you said is true.

Well the only reason she was able to permanently kill the FS is because Rover sealed the DT inside the Tower thing, cutting off it's immortality type 8/AE type 2, if it wasn't for that she wouldn't of killed it. Though yes, with the reverberations of the dead it is possible it grants her the ability to directly interact with a Sonoro but that's a limited and situational thing. She was only able to do that because she literally went inside the DT and interacted with those reverberations from Leviathans influence. This is something she cannot replicate outside of said scenario.

And just to clarify, I’m not saying it applies to every Sonoro Sphere—only when its size is too small.

Size wouldn't change how Sonoro's themselves have to behave, as I said before. Sonoro's are different from typical pocket dimensions in other fictions they are much better. Unless we get some literal retcon of how they are meant to work, it won't matter what size the Sonoro is, even artificial Sonoro's like the training rooms function the same as Jue's in terms of what's literally needed mechanically for it to classify as such. Also, there is no Sonoro in the game that's small as a room almost all of them including the artificial one's are large scale.

As I already mentioned, we should scale characters on a case-by-case basis. Changli destroyed a Sonoro Sphere that contained a sun, Beyond had a night and day cycle, and Cristoforo’s Sonoro Sphere also had a night and day cycle, so just scale them to that. It’s not like Rover goes all out against everyone—he only went all out against Cartwheel, who has basically been smoking everyone in the verse so far.

Yeah, but there comes a time when you have to use a scaling chain to scale characters either because they have no solo feats or to just save yourself time from individually scaling characters who are all relevant to each other. I am mentioning it for that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The main point is Carlotta has the definitive best resonance power of any non sentinel resonator/fractsidus character in the entire story to date, this includes Augusta (and even then she is actually on par with sentinel resonators/fractsidus in terms of resonance power alone).

I disagree with this. Iuno has more range compared to whatever Carlotta has displayed so far.

She has far superior range and DC than Augusta yet, even someone like her was unable to inflict any meaningful damage to the Sonoro.

I never disagreed. But I don't agree with this logic. Inside of Mirror World was pretty Big. She definitely needs to Target the space if she wants to break free like you are advising which she doesn't have any ability to interact with.

Her ability literally erases frequencies from existence, my point was even someone with the power to directly interact with and completely erase the aspect of interaction required to destroy a Sonoro, she was not able to do it without going through hoops.

When did she erased any frequency? Wasn't her whole forte is based on creating crystals and manipulating them. Only one who actually manipulated and erased or Absorbed frequency of others was Phrolova so far.

In this example, her range is completely irrelevant. As, even if she did have the range it would not change the fact that she was unable to directly destroy it anyways. So it doesn't boil down to just having higher DC than the size of the Sonoro itself.

I would have agreed with you regarding this but we don't have any proof to say range doesn't matter in case of Sonoro Sphere. Having same property shouldn't mean they should have same durability.

Well the only reason she was able to permanently kill the FS is because Rover sealed the DT inside the Tower thing, cutting off it's immortality type 8/AE type 2, if it wasn't for that she wouldn't of killed it. Though yes, with the reverberations of the dead it is possible it grants her the ability to directly interact with a Sonoro but that's a limited and situational thing. She was only able to do that because she literally went inside the DT and interacted with those reverberations from Leviathans influence. This is something she cannot replicate outside of said scenario.

This is something I'll agree with you

Size wouldn't change how Sonoro's themselves have to behave, as I said before. Sonoro's are different from typical pocket dimensions in other fictions they are much better. Unless we get some literal retcon of how they are meant to work, it won't matter what size the Sonoro is, even artificial Sonoro's like the training rooms function the same as Jue's in terms of what's literally needed mechanically for it to classify as such. Also, there is no Sonoro in the game that's small as a room almost all of them including the artificial one's are large scale.

I was specifically talking about your statement regarding if even it's room sized. If we take that there is no Sonoro Sphere which is on the size of a room then there is no need to continue this.

Yeah, but there comes a time when you have to use a scaling chain to scale characters either because they have no solo feats or to just save yourself time from individually scaling characters who are all relevant to each other. I am mentioning it for that.

Well scale everyone (5 stars) who doesn't have any scaling chain above Encore who likely possess the Sonoro Sphere? Which has its sun. Since she is likely one of the weakest 5 star character so far.

 

[Shiraito983]

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I disagree with this. Iuno has more range compared to whatever Carlotta has displayed so far.

Their is no major disparity between their range, you'd have an incredibly hard time proving otherwise.

I never disagreed. But I don't agree with this logic. Inside of Mirror World was pretty Big. She definitely needs to Target the space if she wants to break free like you are advising which she doesn't have any ability to interact with.

It was an example, also because the Mirror world used Mirror Carlotta herself as it's core she did not need to target the entire space. Which is the point, furthermore it is not about the size of the space but her literal inability to inflict permanent damage on said space that matters. That is literally what AE is all about.

When did she erased any frequency? Wasn't her whole forte is based on creating crystals and manipulating them. Only one who actually manipulated and erased or Absorbed frequency of others was Phrolova so far.

I don't mean to be come off the wrong way when saying this but serious question, how much of the game have you actually read/paid attention to? It's literally in her forte examination report and directly stated here.

I would have agreed with you regarding this but we don't have any proof to say range doesn't matter in case of Sonoro Sphere. Having same property shouldn't mean they should have same durability.

As I said...it was an example, even IF Carlotta indeed had the range that encompassed the entire Sonoro it would not have changed the fact that she would've been unable to destroy it without going through hoops. This is literally once again, verbatim stated by Mirror Carlotta and even herself in the story.

Well scale everyone (5 stars) who doesn't have any scaling chain above Encore who likely possess the Sonoro Sphere? Which has its sun. Since she is likely one of the weakest 5 star character so far.

Can't scale characters off creation feats without a UES, so it'd have to wait for that. Also not all Sonoro's are directly created using the characters energy as a medium, a lot of them are made with them being completely unaware of what's even going on as a lot of them just change based off characters will/subconscious. Unless you're going to try and argue that even fodders like Pascal are somehow 4B then by all means.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Their is no major disparity between their range, you'd have an incredibly hard time proving otherwise.

I don’t think so. Iuno covers a larger area in the latest quest than Carlotta has ever shown. You’d need to provide evidence that Carlotta can cover more range than that, not me. I’m basing my point on both of their feats—unless you have a statement explicitly saying Carlotta has better AOE than others, I don’t see how you can argue that her range is greater than Iuno’s.

Unless I missed/forgetting any of feats Carlotta perfomed which is superior to Iuno range

I don't mean to be come off the wrong way when saying this but serious question, how much of the game have you actually read/paid attention to?

I’m human bruh and have many other series in mind, not just WuWa. You really can’t expect me to remember every detail like some supercomputer. I’ve been agreeing with you in previous replies where you’ve proven correct. It’s not about attention—it’s just that not everything is easy to remember when you’re invested in many series, and real-life work also takes up some of your mental energy. I have completed all Main quest and Companion quest without skipping a bit. I skipped Exploration Quest I'm not gonna deny that. Except Underworld Vault one which was fun.

It was an example, also because the Mirror world used Mirror Carlotta herself as it's core she did not need to target the entire space. Which is the point, furthermore it is not about the size of the space but her literal inability to inflict permanent damage on said space that matters. That is literally what AE is all about.

It's literally in her forte examination report and directly stated here.

Sure

As I said...it was an example, even IF Carlotta indeed had the range that encompassed the entire Sonoro it would not have changed the fact that she would've been unable to destroy it without going through hoops. This is literally once again, verbatim stated by Mirror Carlotta and even herself in the story.

Isn't that means it's a special property of that mirror world Sonoro Sphere and we should treat the Sonoro Sphere case by case where Hectare case defeating hectare was enough to break free from Beyond when Carnival they fought Phrolova. Or I'm remembering it wrong.

Can't scale characters off creation feats without a UES, so it'd have to wait for that. Also not all Sonoro's are directly created using the characters energy as a medium, a lot of them are made with them being completely unaware of what's even going on as a lot of them just change based off characters will/subconscious. Unless you're going to try and argue that even fodders like Pascal are somehow 4B then by all means.

First of all, I don’t think any fodder characters would scale to 5-stars lore-wise. Even if we ignore Encore’s feat—since, as you said, we don’t know how she created her Sonoro Sphere—I still think characters like Changli who can burn down a Sonoro Sphere and Fracts should scale to their respective Sonoro Spheres (Phrolova and Cristiano). They were able to maintain reality with their own forte, and damaging them directly affected the Sonoro Sphere. I don't think this needs UES for these cases looking how Demon Slayer got the rating for Stabilization for Infinite castle. Of course, other characters can scale based on their own feats or any other available scaling chains. Since it’s a game, some inconsistencies in scaling chains are unavoidable, so these should be discussed and judged on a case-by-case basis.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don’t think so. Iuno covers a larger area in the latest quest than Carlotta has ever shown. You’d need to provide evidence that Carlotta can cover more range than that, not me. I’m basing my point on both of their feats—unless you have a statement explicitly saying Carlotta has better AOE than others, I don’t see how you can argue that her range is greater than Iuno’s.

Unless I missed/forgetting any of feats Carlotta perfomed which is superior to Iuno range

I believe you are confusing AOE with strict range, yes...Iuno covers more of a general area but the maximum distance she has shown reaching with her arrows was not something so far above Carlotta, also I am not arguing Carlotta has better range or that Iuno's is worse merely that they are generally around the same ball park.

I’m human bruh and have many other series in mind, not just WuWa. You really can’t expect me to remember every detail like some supercomputer. I’ve been agreeing with you in previous replies where you’ve proven correct. It’s not about attention—it’s just that not everything is easy to remember when you’re invested in many series, and real-life work also takes up some of your mental energy. I have completed all Main quest and Companion quest without skipping a bit. I skipped Exploration Quest I'm not gonna deny that. Except Underworld Vault one which was fun.

My intent wasn't to insult you, I'm the same I have a lot of verse's I read/play and I'm even working solo on massive verse's on this site and I was still able to remember that because it was so memorable. It was a genuine question, as I know a lot of people have skipped the earlier story quests to catch up to 2.0 not to mention, plenty of people don't read forte examination reports.

Isn't that means it's a special property of that mirror world Sonoro Sphere and we should treat the Sonoro Sphere case by case where Hectare case defeating hectare was enough to break free from Beyond when Carnival they fought Phrolova. Or I'm remembering it wrong.

You are indeed remembering it wrong, Hecate's defeat did not cause the Sonoro to be undone. Phrolova undid it herself.

I still think characters like Changli who can burn down a Sonoro Sphere and Fracts should scale to their respective Sonoro Spheres (Phrolova and Cristiano). They were able to maintain reality with their own forte, and damaging them directly affected the Sonoro Sphere.

Yes, I completely agree with you on that. I'm just saying, for more dubious cases like Encore it's not as simple as these.

I don't think this needs UES for these cases looking how Demon Slayer got the rating for Stabilization for Infinite castle.

I have no idea how that was handled, as far as I am aware you need a UES to scale to creation feats.

 

[Chronster]

I believe it’s moreso that range isn’t the sole factor if a resonator can break a sonoro sphere. It also a matter if their forte has the ability to break said sonoro sphere, which is not a simple matter of having enough DC to do, it’s the question if their forte had a specific characteristic/ability (or Hax i think) to break down a sonoro sphere, which is not a typical pocket dimension. In Changli’s case, it’s clear that she has both the range and capabilities in her forte to break down the sonoro sphere during her companion quest.

With the example of room-sized sonoro, it’s the case of while Augusta can cover the range, what matters more is if her forte can directly affect a sonoro sphere, which we don’t have any feat for currently for her nor could Changli’s feat apply to her. In this example case, range is irrelevant.

I believe you are confusing AOE with strict range, yes...Iuno covers more of a general area but the maximum distance she has shown reaching with her arrows was not something so far above Carlotta, also I am not arguing Carlotta has better range or that Iuno's is worse merely that they are generally around the same ball park.

You are indeed remembering it wrong, Hecate's defeat did not cause the Sonoro to be undone. Phrolova undid it herself.

Yes, I completely agree with you on that. I'm just saying, for more dubious cases like Encore it's not as simple as these.

I agree with these, Iuno’s has better AOE than Carlotta, clear on that, but as far as range (how far in terms in distance can they shoot) goes, it’s not too far apart for both to say who can shoot farther. Phrolova’s Sonoro didn’t break down after Hecate’s defeated, it was right as Phrolova is about to be attacked before she undid it. Including character scale to their sonoro sphere is more of a case-by-case thing.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I believe it’s moreso that range isn’t the sole factor if a resonator can break a sonoro sphere. It also a matter of their forte has the ability to break said sonoro sphere, which is not a simple matter of having enough DC to do, it’s the question if their forte had a specific characteristic/ability (or Hax i think) to break down a sonoro sphere, which is not a typical pocket dimension. In Changli’s case, it’s clear that she has both the range and capabilities in her forte to break down the sonoro sphere during her companion quest.

With the example of room-sized sonoro, it’s the case of while Augusta can cover the range, what matters more is if her forte can directly affect a sonoro sphere, which we don’t have any feat for currently for her nor could Changli’s feat apply to her. In this example case, range is irrelevant.


I agree with these, Iuno’s has better AOE than Carlotta, clear on that, but as far as range (how far in terms in distance can they shoot) goes, it’s not too far apart for both to say who can shoot farther. Phrolova’s Sonoro didn’t break down after Hecate’s defeated, it was right as Phrolova is about to be attacked before she undid it. Including character scale to their sonoro sphere is more of a case-by-case thing.

Yeah, this is what I meant.

 

[Shiraito983]

Why did you guys rank Jue Sorono Sphere as low 2-C when it encompassed a whole 2-A structure? I am missing something?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Why did you guys rank Jue Sorono Sphere as low 2-C when it encompassed a whole 2-A structure? I am missing something?

Well currently we haven't officially ranked it at all, the L2C is merely tentative at the moment. Most likely it'll get a 2B-2A rating once a profile for Jue is officially created.

 

[Chronster]

Why did you guys rank Jue Sorono Sphere as low 2-C when it encompassed a whole 2-A structure? I am missing something?

It’s more of a temporary rating stand-in untio Jue’s profile is officially made.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I believe you are confusing AOE with strict range, yes...Iuno covers more of a general area but the maximum distance she has shown reaching with her arrows was not something so far above Carlotta, also I am not arguing Carlotta has better range or that Iuno's is worse merely that they are generally around the same ball park.

I agree with these, Iuno’s has better AOE than Carlotta, clear on that, but as far as range (how far in terms in distance can they shoot) goes, it’s not too far apart for both to say who can shoot farther. Phrolova’s Sonoro didn’t break down after Hecate’s defeated, it was right as Phrolova is about to be attacked before she undid it. Including character scale to their sonoro sphere is more of a case-by-case thing.

Just forget it. I went back and checked 2.0 main boss fight. You might be right on Carlotta having Similar range. It's been a while so didn't remember that much.

My intent wasn't to insult you, I'm the same I have a lot of verse's I read/play and I'm even working solo on massive verse's on this site and I was still able to remember that because it was so memorable. It was a genuine question, as I know a lot of people have skipped the earlier story quests to catch up to 2.0 not to mention, plenty of people don't read forte examination reports.

I didn't take it as offensive. I'm just explaining it's just hard to follow up stuff and yeah I'm one of the people who didn't read forte examination reports. (I read few reports not all).

You are indeed remembering it wrong, Hecate's defeat did not cause the Sonoro to be undone. Phrolova undid it herself.

Yeah you're right just ignore what I said.

Yes, I completely agree with you on that. I'm just saying, for more dubious cases like Encore it's not as simple as these.

Yeah I don't mind disregarding Encore case.

I have no idea how that was handled, as far as I am aware you need a UES to scale to creation feats.

I think Limited energy system is alone enough. But let's see when we cross that road. I don't mind most of the people scaling to Jiyan feat but that should be case by case basis.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why did you guys rank Jue Sorono Sphere as low 2-C when it encompassed a whole 2-A structure? I am missing something?

Well currently we haven't officially ranked it at all, the L2C is merely tentative at the moment. Most likely it'll get a 2B-2A rating once a profile for Jue is officially created.

The problem with it is that Jue can alter the timeline in his Sonoro Sphere, but logically that shouldn’t be possible since every point in time should be a branch. Besides, do we have any statement confirming that it contains timelines like Tethys? From what I understand, Jue’s Sonoro Sphere contains its own timeline based on all of time—it seems to be a separate spacetime altogether, since we don’t see anything from Solaris inside it. It did have stars and other celestial bodies, though. The most important point is that, consistently, it’s closer to other characters’ feats like Cristoforo’s Sonoro Sphere and Beyond, which could arguably be tier 4.

2-B/2-A seems to be fair away compared to other feats.
I do agree with 2-B/2-A for Tethys most likely 2-B since I remember it's stating something about near infinity or something along the way (which I need to cross verify) and Companion quest statement being countless timelines.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I believe it’s moreso that range isn’t the sole factor if a resonator can break a sonoro sphere. It also a matter if their forte has the ability to break said sonoro sphere, which is not a simple matter of having enough DC to do, it’s the question if their forte had a specific characteristic/ability (or Hax i think) to break down a sonoro sphere, which is not a typical pocket dimension. In Changli’s case, it’s clear that she has both the range and capabilities in her forte to break down the sonoro sphere during her companion quest.

With the example of room-sized sonoro, it’s the case of while Augusta can cover the range, what matters more is if her forte can directly affect a sonoro sphere, which we don’t have any feat for currently for her nor could Changli’s feat apply to her. In this example case, range is irrelevant.

Well I already admitted Augusta only capable of doing it with Reverberation powers which she showcased at the end so I agree she shouldn't be able to produce that normally outside of 2.6 scenario. She normally doesn't have any DC capabilities with her forte.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

arguing tier 2 shit without profiles

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

arguing tier 2 shit without profiles

Genshin Eos?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

arguing tier 2 shit without profiles

Who would want to go back and forth creating threads. It's better to discuss this and create a single good profile from the beginning.

 

[Chronster]

Well I already admitted Augusta only capable of doing it with Reverberation powers which she showcased at the end so I agree she shouldn't be able to produce that normally outside of 2.6 scenario. She normally doesn't have any DC capabilities with her forte.

Yeh, I was only referring to that in terms of directly breaking down a sonoro sphere, range is pretty much only relevant if the character’s forte has the capability to directly do so. And this capabilities is more along of special characteristics or hax, not a simple matter of just having high enough DC since sonoro spheres are built different. (I was more focused on the technicalities of the process)

Though yes, the reverberation of the dead power up possibly granted Augusta the ability/hax to interact a sonoro directly aside from the obvious increased DC at that moment at the end of 2.6, which I find to be reasonably possible, just not 100% sure from the game, though I wouldn’t argue against it.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Just forget it. I went back and checked 2.0 main boss fight. You might be right on Carlotta having Similar range. It's been a while so didn't remember that much.

Fair enough.

I didn't take it as offensive. I'm just explaining it's just hard to follow up stuff and yeah I'm one of the people who didn't read forte examination reports. (I read few reports not all).

Well that's good, I wasn't trying to offend you. I empathize with you on that, it is hard to keep track of things which is why I often make folders for different categories of screenshots.

Yeah I don't mind disregarding Encore case.

I think Limited energy system is alone enough. But let's see when we cross that road. I don't mind most of the people scaling to Jiyan feat but that should be case by case basis.

I'm not sure if LES is enough, but if it is then that's fine. Yeah of course, my plan isn't to completely put the entire game's cast under a strict umbrella of chain scaling. Rather to use the chain scaling to set a precedence and sort of "floor" for majority of the cast.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

The problem with it is that Jue can alter the timeline in his Sonoro Sphere, but logically that shouldn’t be possible since every point in time should be a branch.

Well, this varies from fiction to fiction so for now we don't really know.

Besides, do we have any statement confirming that it contains timelines like Tethys? From what I understand, Jue’s Sonoro Sphere contains its own timeline based on all of time—it seems to be a separate spacetime altogether, since we don’t see anything from Solaris inside it. It did have stars and other celestial bodies, though. The most important point is that, consistently, it’s closer to other characters’ feats like Cristoforo’s Sonoro Sphere and Beyond, which could arguably be tier 4.

Well the most important thing is the statements as well as Jue's literal lore itself, Jue is of course the Sentinel of time it's stated to see all moments of time (past, present and future) and eons as mere moments. With time itself ebbing and flowing at it's will, with all that in mind the nip in the bud is really how exactly time works in the Wuwa verse. For example, if we use your assumption that time is a branch then this would probably only grant H3A at most.

However, if time in the wuwa verse works not as a branch but as a single line that merely branches off at different moments? (So a worldline) then Jue seeing all of time as a mere moment as well as it being able to make a Sonoro Sphere that encompasses the beginning and end of all time (which is specifically what it states) then you get into the territory of tier 2, specifically at that point it'd scale closer to the actual cosmology itself rather than any individual feat which is precisely where the Tethy's stuff ends up working as support for Jue itself.

2-B/2-A seems to be fair away compared to other feats.
I do agree with 2-B/2-A for Tethys most likely 2-B since I remember it's stating something about near infinity or something along the way (which I need to cross verify) and Companion quest statement being countless timelines.

I agree, the tier is more or less guaranteed for Tethy's.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Going to skip Iuno for this Angel

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well, this varies from fiction to fiction so for now we don't really know.

Well the most important thing is the statements as well as Jue's literal lore itself, Jue is of course the Sentinel of time it's stated to see all moments of time (past, present and future) and eons as mere moments. With time itself ebbing and flowing at it's will, with all that in mind the nip in the bud is really how exactly time works in the Wuwa verse. For example, if we use your assumption that time is a branch then this would probably only grant H3A at most.

However, if time in the wuwa verse works not as a branch but as a single line that merely branches off at different moments? (So a worldline) then Jue seeing all of time as a mere moment as well as it being able to make a Sonoro Sphere that encompasses the beginning and end of all time (which is specifically what it states) then you get into the territory of tier 2, specifically at that point it'd scale closer to the actual cosmology itself rather than any individual feat which is precisely where the Tethy's stuff ends up working as support for Jue itself.

I agree, the tier is more or less guaranteed for Tethy's.

I'll re check the quest and will get back to you. But well for now we can concentrate on Scaling characters using Jiyan feat I guess. But still we need calculations for 4 stars and others who doesn't have scaling chain to Jiyan.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I'll re check the quest and will get back to you. But well for now we can concentrate on Scaling characters using Jiyan feat I guess. But still we need calculations for 4 stars and others who doesn't have scaling chain to Jiyan.

Hmm...easier said than done tbh, most of them are fairly featless and aren't exactly stat based fighters. Like Aalto for example, who has pretty much a Logia from OP via his Forte. It's selective intangibility but it's gonna be very difficult to get a tier for all of them. We'll try our best though of course.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hmm...easier said than done tbh, most of them are fairly featless and aren't exactly stat based fighters. Like Aalto for example, who has pretty much a Logia from OP via his Forte. It's selective intangibility but it's gonna be very difficult to get a tier for all of them. We'll try our best though of course.

Just scale them to Superhuman tier if there is no scaling chain available. Last option though

Anyway someone should calculate this. Can be used as some supporting calculations

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So she can control the TD if they submit to her?

 

[Shiraito983]

gotta be one of the most fakest thing i saw today

 

[Shiraito983]

So she can control the TD if they submit to her?

if shes sub dps im going to skip her

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

if shes sub dps im going to skip her

I'm just gonna pull her because I like the character