- 5,826
- 1,233
FTL > Omnipresence
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Worst Downplay
- Thread starter TeenAngel101
- Start date
- 4,652
- 1,328
Again, not everybody who watched the anime has read the manga. IIRC that's where the infinite worlds statement came from.
If they're willing to acknowledge Low 2-C Madoka at all instead of spouting nonsense like "haha little 14yo girly girl", I wouldn't be so quick to assume they'd deny 2-A if they were simply shown the statement.
Yes it is downplay in a sense but it's not "haha look at how silly this is" levels of terrible, considering that not reading the manga is all you have to do to miss the statement.
If they're willing to acknowledge Low 2-C Madoka at all instead of spouting nonsense like "haha little 14yo girly girl", I wouldn't be so quick to assume they'd deny 2-A if they were simply shown the statement.
Yes it is downplay in a sense but it's not "haha look at how silly this is" levels of terrible, considering that not reading the manga is all you have to do to miss the statement.
- 12,524
- 3,492
It's actually more like "b-but she only banished witches she's not multiversal LOL."ArbitraryNumbers said:
- 19,530
- 3,924
"Kaldor Draigo is only wall level"
"Vulkan gets blitzed by All Might"
"Vulkan gets blitzed by All Might"
- 19,246
- 2,685
"The Chaos Gods can't be 1-A if they can't even beat an army of High 8-C's"
- 4,652
- 1,328
Still all you have to do is miss a couple of details. I guarantee you not everyone's going to catch all of the details on their first try, so trying to loop them in with people who make excuses to dismiss feats is unfair.
Yes it is downplay, but it is not "haha look at how ridiculous this is" levels of downplay. Not everyone eats, sleeps, and breathes VS Debating like we do, so they're not going to be as sensitive to details as we are.
The simple point I'm getting across here is that half of these examples provided in this thread can just be credited to the person being a casual fan as opposed to performing all sorts of mental gymnastics to their convenience.
Are there going to be cases where this is taken to the extreme? Yes, absolutely. But Low 2-C Madoka isn't one. Because at the very least they're acknowledging that the feat is there; all you have to do is forget statements like "every universe, every world", or "you have ascended to a higher plane". I sure as heck didn't remember those statements from when I first watched it.
Yes it is downplay, but it is not "haha look at how ridiculous this is" levels of downplay. Not everyone eats, sleeps, and breathes VS Debating like we do, so they're not going to be as sensitive to details as we are.
The simple point I'm getting across here is that half of these examples provided in this thread can just be credited to the person being a casual fan as opposed to performing all sorts of mental gymnastics to their convenience.
Are there going to be cases where this is taken to the extreme? Yes, absolutely. But Low 2-C Madoka isn't one. Because at the very least they're acknowledging that the feat is there; all you have to do is forget statements like "every universe, every world", or "you have ascended to a higher plane". I sure as heck didn't remember those statements from when I first watched it.
- 19,530
- 3,924
This is Wank/Downplay
"Beerus sneezes and wipes out WH40k"
"Beerus sneezes and wipes out WH40k"
- 4,652
- 1,328
Yes.Yobobojojo said:
For example, some people may be more stricter with their application of powerscaling. I myself dislike how leniently we apply it here, and lean more towards solid feats that are performed by the characters themselves.
- 4,652
- 1,328
I was also mostly arguing that a lot of these instances of "downplaying" can just be chalked up to ignorance rather than denial.
- 14,391
- 5,220
It's true tho, sometimes, people end up downplaying just because they don't know that much about the character, I do that all of the time.
- 4,652
- 1,328
I just don't like this accusation of downplay and how frequently its used. It often comes across as aggression, which discourages discussion and prevents things from getting done. I don't make claims like that unless I'm absolutely sure someone is trying to tap-dance around acknowledging feats by cherrypicking the details.
But you never know. That's why I often give the benefit of the doubt.
But you never know. That's why I often give the benefit of the doubt.
- 31,415
- 34,241
I agree, that calling something Downplay or Wank is often quite rude.
- 19,530
- 3,924
Well the three I posted where after these people where shown feats/scans(that they acknowledged they saw) and still said other wise, but I do see/understand your guys' points.
- 4,652
- 1,328
I'm not saying downplaying doen't exist by any means.
Like I mentioned before, that one user whose posts I linked to above are full of it. I've had experiences with him in youtube comments sections where he'd play all sorts of logical fallacies to deny Silver Chariot's FTL feat. An indication that he's more concerned with being "technically right because the person I am trying to refute stopped replying" because it makes him feel better.
Like I mentioned before, that one user whose posts I linked to above are full of it. I've had experiences with him in youtube comments sections where he'd play all sorts of logical fallacies to deny Silver Chariot's FTL feat. An indication that he's more concerned with being "technically right because the person I am trying to refute stopped replying" because it makes him feel better.
- 5,826
- 1,233
Post Magicant Ness is 5-B because he linked himself to the Earth to defeat Giygas, which would also make him Planet level.
- 10,687
- 6,335
- 31,415
- 34,241
@DarkAnine, there's also another user who's not too active, and it's usually Fire Emblem threads he comments on regularly. But he's always having inconsistent opinions on Fire Emblem. It's not Mik, but I think you know who it is. He's first thinks Marth and Medeus should be Planet level can calling those who disagrees with them "downplayers" then he says anything higher than Wall level for any FE character is "wank." Then he goes back and forth between the former and latter, but other times more in between. But the only thing that kind of remains consistent is his rude behavior.
- 31,415
- 34,241
Resetting the universe is usually both AP and hax tbh; there's also people who say anything that's above universal for any verse is dubious.
- 19,246
- 2,685
"Swann is Low 1-C at best since, when it was written, the strongest SCP was the 6th dimensional one"
- 4,652
- 1,328
I'm just not a big fan of powerscaling. It takes away the fun of indexing; why even bother trying to list all of their awesome feats that they performed on their own when you can just nope all of that and scale them to a feat that's a billion times stronger?
It also ruins the fun of a battle royale featuring all of the JoJos. It would be an interesting discussion if we could compare their different feats, and things they did on their own, like Jolyne's feat of throwing a baseball 1,000 times in a few seconds, Josuke's feat of deflecting bulletfire from an entire militia at once, or Star Platinum's feat of busting out of The High Priestess' mouth, but no, they're all MFTL and 8-B via scaling from the same feats. It sucks all the fun out.
It also ruins the fun of a battle royale featuring all of the JoJos. It would be an interesting discussion if we could compare their different feats, and things they did on their own, like Jolyne's feat of throwing a baseball 1,000 times in a few seconds, Josuke's feat of deflecting bulletfire from an entire militia at once, or Star Platinum's feat of busting out of The High Priestess' mouth, but no, they're all MFTL and 8-B via scaling from the same feats. It sucks all the fun out.
- 15,418
- 5,748
We don't compile feats just to go "woa look at these feats", but to determine how strong a character is. And ignoring powerscaling just because "it's no fun" ignores the very point of compiling feats in the first place. I could ask the opposite question: What's the point of compiling all the feats and powerscaling if we're not trying to be accurate and determine how strong a character really is?
Also, pretty sure that ignoring powerscaling wouldn't make for a fun in-universe match, considering the insane strengh and speed difference. It would just be a stomp once the numbers are figured out. It's like trying to do Death Battle but accurately.
Also, pretty sure that ignoring powerscaling wouldn't make for a fun in-universe match, considering the insane strengh and speed difference. It would just be a stomp once the numbers are figured out. It's like trying to do Death Battle but accurately.
- 31,415
- 34,241
I guess I understand where AN is coming from. Though some verses like Dragon Ball are super heavily dependant on power scaling. But let's not derail with Dragon Ball downgrade memes. But I'd rather powerscale rather than just assume every character with no destruction feats peak at Street level for example; especially if characters are comparable if not superior to those with legit Overly superhuman feats.
Not familiar with Jojo though. There's also Marvel and DC where you got to be really careful with scaling though; as well as a lot of Fighting games.
Not familiar with Jojo though. There's also Marvel and DC where you got to be really careful with scaling though; as well as a lot of Fighting games.
- 4,652
- 1,328
@Saikou
I never said I wanted to ignore powerscaling, I said I didn't like it because sucks the fun out of a process that is otherwise enjoyable.
That said, I mainly dislike how leniently we apply it here. Many times in fiction a victory only happens because it's convenient for the plot. Would it be convenient for the story if the main protagonist lost to the main villain, regardless of how much sense it would make for him to lose? Most of the time the authors want their happy endings, so the knight is almost always going to slay the dragon no matter how powerful it is.
Not to mention that lots of authors also want their fights to be interesting, so of course they're going to make a character land punches here and there. I'd prefer a bit more consistency that is backed up by more than just one instance of a character fighting another, if possible.
@DDM
Indeed Dragon Ball Z is an exception. The fights are very straightforward and power levels are kind of the verse's thing, so powerscaling is very easy. And I'm not advocating against powerscaling, either; if there's nothing there for a character that should absolutely, definitely be far beyond superhuman, then by all means give it to them.
I never said I wanted to ignore powerscaling, I said I didn't like it because sucks the fun out of a process that is otherwise enjoyable.
That said, I mainly dislike how leniently we apply it here. Many times in fiction a victory only happens because it's convenient for the plot. Would it be convenient for the story if the main protagonist lost to the main villain, regardless of how much sense it would make for him to lose? Most of the time the authors want their happy endings, so the knight is almost always going to slay the dragon no matter how powerful it is.
Not to mention that lots of authors also want their fights to be interesting, so of course they're going to make a character land punches here and there. I'd prefer a bit more consistency that is backed up by more than just one instance of a character fighting another, if possible.
@DDM
Indeed Dragon Ball Z is an exception. The fights are very straightforward and power levels are kind of the verse's thing, so powerscaling is very easy. And I'm not advocating against powerscaling, either; if there's nothing there for a character that should absolutely, definitely be far beyond superhuman, then by all means give it to them.
- 15,637
- 5,392
I kind of agree with both Saikou and Abitrary here.
However, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in this instance. We, as an indexing site, focus on having consistent rules to ensure debates can actually be debates, and not people arguing as to how they "feel" a character is tiered base on narrative interpretation.
Other sites that focus on the battle aspect are looking for that same kind of fun conjecture that can't be held when consistency is paramount (not to say that indexing and then using proven facts to debate isn't fun). For instance, having John Wick fight Punisher (Marvel Comics). A thread here would be closed for a stomp, but for the purposes of a fun conjecture, putting them on the same level due to their portrayal makes for a more intresting story/battle.
We do our different things, and we get enjoyment out of it. No harm, no foul.
However, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in this instance. We, as an indexing site, focus on having consistent rules to ensure debates can actually be debates, and not people arguing as to how they "feel" a character is tiered base on narrative interpretation.
Other sites that focus on the battle aspect are looking for that same kind of fun conjecture that can't be held when consistency is paramount (not to say that indexing and then using proven facts to debate isn't fun). For instance, having John Wick fight Punisher (Marvel Comics). A thread here would be closed for a stomp, but for the purposes of a fun conjecture, putting them on the same level due to their portrayal makes for a more intresting story/battle.
We do our different things, and we get enjoyment out of it. No harm, no foul.
- 21,390
- 2,978
Natsu is multi building at best.
- 31,415
- 34,241
Truth be told, we got people who are always trying to scale every character from each fighting game to their god tiers; Reverse power scaling is always bad. Such as people trying to scale Akuma to Base Ryu which would in turn scale to quite a lot of characters. Same with the outliers of Sagat and Dhalsim barely surviving a held back Evil Ryu. And there's Mortal Kombat, where Sindel stomped half the cast single handedly, but is canonically weaker than Liu Kang, and the avatars of Raiden and Shao Kahn. But people try scaling the weaker characters to them as well. So, we are considerate and try not to be too lenient on power scaling.
- 147
- 6
universal touhou 
ensive:
ensive:
- 120
- 6
who would win
an omnipotent cosmic being capable of creating several infinite realities
or
1 really long nap
azathoth nap level
an omnipotent cosmic being capable of creating several infinite realities
or
1 really long nap
azathoth nap level
- 14,391
- 5,220
- Reality level.
VoidGoji
They/Them- 3,995
- 925
St. Germai.
This thing is severely downplayed It came back after Othinus erased the entirety of reality and even beings that are infinitely above her in power can't put it down.
No matter how much they erase this thing
It just comes back
Mid-Godly to High-Godly regen
This thing is severely downplayed It came back after Othinus erased the entirety of reality and even beings that are infinitely above her in power can't put it down.
No matter how much they erase this thing
It just comes back
Mid-Godly to High-Godly regen
- 4,648
- 963
Super Sonic is a copy of Super Saiya, therefore Son Goku>Sonic. Always.
I mean I kind of believed it when I was younger but for a diferent reason: I though that the super forms gave the same power boost that super saiyans, so if Base Sonic<Base Goku, then Super Sonic<Super Saiyan Goku.
I mean I kind of believed it when I was younger but for a diferent reason: I though that the super forms gave the same power boost that super saiyans, so if Base Sonic<Base Goku, then Super Sonic<Super Saiyan Goku.
Similar threads
