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Someone mentioned somewhere that Lucifer already got his wings during the feat so he'd be irrelevant speed anyways and Matt mentioned he mainly did the calc for fun when he was younger.
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Wonder Woman and Shattered God
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
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If Hal didn't get reset then I'm quite sure that people are gonna become 2-C, so I don't think you can scale it like that?
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Then it's not a debunk and just making it so that feat is irrelevant to someone who's irrelevant speed.Greenshifter said:
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I'm working on it. The cast should very much be in the tier 2 range, and that's hat ticks me off. Supes breaks the timeline and we don't even have the balls to write it off as an outlier, instead saying it's a plot convenience.Greenshifter said:
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@KLOL it means he was 1-A during the feat.
@Cal Sure maybe debunk was the wrong choice of words but it's using a 1-A's casual speed feat to upgrade a 4-B.
@Cal Sure maybe debunk was the wrong choice of words but it's using a 1-A's casual speed feat to upgrade a 4-B.
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And here I was thinking about giving a lower end for comic book characters (obviously keep the higher end) because Flash was scared of dying by a big storm.
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The accepted end was quintillions.
Actually reading the comments it looks like it was never accepted by anyone there.
But ignoring that the end everyone went with was the Sextillion one. Not the consistent Quintillion end.
I'm saying that quintillions c ain't much to DC in the long run.
Quintillions no. Sextillions, yes.
Hal scans the universe in a heartbeat. That alone is quintillions.
Quintillions are again fine. The issue is the 315 Sextillion end which was what was used. And that is still thousands of times better than the accepted Pre-Crisis Hal end you mentioned.
Also I just noticed the various Pre-Crisis Hal speed feats were also never accepted.
Actually reading the comments it looks like it was never accepted by anyone there.
But ignoring that the end everyone went with was the Sextillion one. Not the consistent Quintillion end.
I'm saying that quintillions c ain't much to DC in the long run.
Quintillions no. Sextillions, yes.
Hal scans the universe in a heartbeat. That alone is quintillions.
Quintillions are again fine. The issue is the 315 Sextillion end which was what was used. And that is still thousands of times better than the accepted Pre-Crisis Hal end you mentioned.
Also I just noticed the various Pre-Crisis Hal speed feats were also never accepted.
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Honestly you have a bit of a point here. Several verses have massive speed or AP jumps that, while not contradicted, are never approached again. Yet those verses don't go through half as much scrutiny as DC and Marvel. I won't deny there are obvious differences in how comics handle feats in comparison to other media but it becomes a bit too much sometimes.The real cal howard said:
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A lot of verses have that. Some like DC/Marvel/Naruto get hyper focused while others like niche LNs get a lot past with minimal issues. it mostly comes down to the active users on those threads and how they view what is and isn't legit.
DC/Marvel do get a lot more scrutiny then most other verses, but on the flip-side DC/Marvel is also extremely easy to high ball and there's plenty of threads attempting to make Superman or Thor 1-A normally.
Also two wrongs don't make a right. If you disagree with quadrillion c Toei Goku then make a thing on it. Don't use that as a backdoor justifications for a (possibly) wrong speed statistic in another franchise.
DC/Marvel do get a lot more scrutiny then most other verses, but on the flip-side DC/Marvel is also extremely easy to high ball and there's plenty of threads attempting to make Superman or Thor 1-A normally.
Also two wrongs don't make a right. If you disagree with quadrillion c Toei Goku then make a thing on it. Don't use that as a backdoor justifications for a (possibly) wrong speed statistic in another franchise.
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As someone who's seen Naruto revisions firsthand, it's nothing compared to what DC and Marvel goes through. Same with all those other heavy verses. They don't have whole pages to neuter the scaling. Their feats have to be checked if legitimate while the comics verses, legitimate or not, will be written off as outliers if we don't like their numbers. Reminder that Supes was like, 200c here at one point of time. DC and Marvel get highballed because there's a shitton of feats, and we don't acknowledge half of them. Of course, I laugh at the idea of JLA members being anywhere near tier 1, but when they bust the universe for the umpteenth time and are still solar system level, that's when I have a problem.
And this isn't a wrong speed statistic. The feat is there. It's not taken out of context. It's not highballed. The only thing in the cards is that it's an outlier because Flash despite having massively better feats doesn't anymore and is now slower than Kirby.
And this isn't a wrong speed statistic. The feat is there. It's not taken out of context. It's not highballed. The only thing in the cards is that it's an outlier because Flash despite having massively better feats doesn't anymore and is now slower than Kirby.
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Yeah I don't have a problem with it either. Same as Planck there.
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DC and Marvel get highballed because there's a shitton of feats, and we don't acknowledge half of them.
Because a lot of the time they're just inconsistent or involve something context sensitive.
And this isn't a wrong speed statistic. The feat is there. It's not taken out of context. It's not highballed. The only thing in the cards is that it's an outlier because Flash despite having massively better feats doesn't anymore and is now slower than Kirby.
The intended end was the Quintillions one, then I'm fine with it being used. Its the sextillion end that I, and others, had issue with. Since it was thousands to hundreds of thousands of times better than other feats.
Also the Flash one isn't usable because he was literally amped for it. If we're including amps for base profiles then we should boost everyone to their 4th world bodies or something.
Because a lot of the time they're just inconsistent or involve something context sensitive.
And this isn't a wrong speed statistic. The feat is there. It's not taken out of context. It's not highballed. The only thing in the cards is that it's an outlier because Flash despite having massively better feats doesn't anymore and is now slower than Kirby.
The intended end was the Quintillions one, then I'm fine with it being used. Its the sextillion end that I, and others, had issue with. Since it was thousands to hundreds of thousands of times better than other feats.
Also the Flash one isn't usable because he was literally amped for it. If we're including amps for base profiles then we should boost everyone to their 4th world bodies or something.
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The context sensitive ones aren't actually context sensitive. They're just scrutinized and nitpicked to make them seem like they only work in context. See about a third of Superman's outliers. People just like to cherry pick the Batman kicking Spectre type of feats where it is context sensitive.
Again, not referring to you, but to the system in general.
Again, not referring to you, but to the system in general.
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The context sensitive ones aren't actually context sensitive
Considering how many people have tried to push for universal upgrades based on B13, Imperiex, or Superman's personal aspect of death I can't fully agree here. He has legit ones I'll admit, but they're inconsistent with his general portrayal.
Considering how many people have tried to push for universal upgrades based on B13, Imperiex, or Superman's personal aspect of death I can't fully agree here. He has legit ones I'll admit, but they're inconsistent with his general portrayal.
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It looks like Qawsedf and Cal agreed that the feat can be added if the intended end was Quintillions. Did anybody ever take care of this?
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Well, again, if Qawsedf and Cal are both fine with Quintillions, then it would seem the thread has resolved itself.
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For the record, I'm also fine with this. I'm pretty sure it would fit in well with Superman and Green Lantern's better speed feats.
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Conclusions are that the Wonder Woman feat should be reinstated to Wondie's profile as being not an outlier, since it's in the quintillions range.
Funnily enough, I don't even see a sextillion feat for Wonder Woman in that calc in the first place. AT ALL. The highest end is around 315-ish quintillion times FTL with the low-end being 52 quintillion.
Funnily enough, I don't even see a sextillion feat for Wonder Woman in that calc in the first place. AT ALL. The highest end is around 315-ish quintillion times FTL with the low-end being 52 quintillion.
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Qawsedf and Cal agreed that the Shattered God feat was usable so long as we are only accounting for the calcs that put it in the Quintillions. The higher end calcs are unreliable, but the lower and mid end are consistent with the better feats performed by characters like Superman and Green Lantern.
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And Darkseid, who, mind you, also has a 52-quintillion-times FTL feat to his name.
And I don't think we ever accounted for any calc higher than the Shattered God, plus I don't even recall a single feat being calc'd for the mid-tiers at the sextillions.
And I don't think we ever accounted for any calc higher than the Shattered God, plus I don't even recall a single feat being calc'd for the mid-tiers at the sextillions.
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Okay. Is somebody willing to update the Wonder Woman (Post-Crisis) page, and do any other pages need to be updated to scale from her as well?
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I can update it, but I don't think any other pages need revision aside from that one.
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I know I'm late to the party, but I've always been fine with Wonder Woman's speed feat based on numbers at least. However, I think the reason it was considered an outlier was due to Fan saying; "This is a comic about a 4-B character kicking a 3-A character's ass in the same scenario of Jedi's getting their ass kicked by Bounty Hunters or something.
I know Wonder Woman typically uses artifacts that are meant to nullify the power of various gods or borrow powers from Greek Pantheon Gods. Saying things like, "It's an outlier because it's thousands of times greater than someone superior to her's best feat outside of outside help" as opposed to having the low end feat just being considered casual. If it's considered an outlier, then it should be for the reason of a 4-B character keeping up with a 3-A character in combination to that detail, not just one or the other detail alone.
That being said, I'm overall neutral, just giving my side of the bargain.
I know Wonder Woman typically uses artifacts that are meant to nullify the power of various gods or borrow powers from Greek Pantheon Gods. Saying things like, "It's an outlier because it's thousands of times greater than someone superior to her's best feat outside of outside help" as opposed to having the low end feat just being considered casual. If it's considered an outlier, then it should be for the reason of a 4-B character keeping up with a 3-A character in combination to that detail, not just one or the other detail alone.
That being said, I'm overall neutral, just giving my side of the bargain.
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I have completed the necessary changes.
I'm also in general agreement with Medeus's point. Whether some of the AP-related actions Wonder Woman performed in the comic were outliers or not, the speed feat itself seems fine. It's fairly consistent with portrayals of the Superman family and Green Lanterns.
I'm also in general agreement with Medeus's point. Whether some of the AP-related actions Wonder Woman performed in the comic were outliers or not, the speed feat itself seems fine. It's fairly consistent with portrayals of the Superman family and Green Lanterns.
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If it helps, I remember seeing a feat about Flash outrunning the big bang. Idk if the feat is legitimate, but I do know that the big bang in DC expanded 60 trillion light years in a half second, which is 3.78683112e21 c (3.8 sextillion c).
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Also, the only time I remember the Wonder Woman speed feat being sextillions was when someone pixel scaled how much wonder woman moved compared to one of the particles of the shattered god. I don't remember the original calc itself being sextillions, though I could be wrong.
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Didn't Orion have an accepted Sextillions of C for speed on one of his feats? I know that's another example of a character significantly stronger than Superman, but it's a good back up feat.
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I think other speed feats for other characters should probably be reserved for another thread. This one is talking about Wonder Woman, and it has been going on for a little while now.
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@Ant, I completed the edits- just letting you know.
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