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Obvoiusly a typo from my part. But if you read the comment, you will notice that the rest of it contradicts that sentence (Showing how you only read the part you needed)
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Will Android 17 get an upgrade?
- Thread starter Jonathanlighter
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"But you can't tell me that Goku held back so much that his SSJ form < Serious base Form, at least Krillin should be Likely 4-B (Not even High 4-C considering how in is Goku in the tier)"
I guess Bulma is 4-B because you can't tell me that Beerus held back to the level of an ordinary human.
I guess Bulma is 4-B because you can't tell me that Beerus held back to the level of an ordinary human.
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My point still stands. Krillin hasn't shown any feat above 5-B. His best feat in the whole series is cutting Freeza's tail.
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I think you're talking about Saiyan Beyond Goku which is equal to his SSG version.
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Well, it seems like it would lead to having to upgrade everybody to 3-A for little reason. I think that it is most likely Plot-Induced Stupidity.
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I am also against upgrading 3-A for everyone.
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3-B is defintely out of the question due to the inconscient scaling the new arc in dbs brought fourth, but im cool with a likely or possibly 4-A or 4-B 17 though
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Terrible example.Matthew Schroeder said:
But then tell me, what's the point of transforming if you are going to hold back to the point of being weaker than your own base state?
Krillin has feats to put him at least close to Base Gohan and Goku
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No Matt's example is valid. It shows that saying that "_____ couldn't have held back their power THAT much" is not a viable argument. DB characters have been able to hold back their power by orders of magnitude since pretty much forever.
Nameless fodder humans surviving a hit from Buu Saga Vegeta, Hercule surviving a hit from Cell, Goku being able to have children with Chi Chi, Trunks making his power level 5, etc. So yes it is more than reasonable to say that Goku held back his power "that much." Especially since right before that fight Krillin explicitly had difficulty fighting against someone vastly inferior to Goku while they were surpressing themselves. And could not have beaten them with strength.
Goku transformed to test Krillin's resolve. That's why he asked him later on "What are you going to do now?" He didn't want Krillin to freeze up in fear if he meets a high level fighter. But even without that explanation, it doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense for Goku to have transformed and then held back. Because he quite clearly did. There not being a good reason for Goku to have done that doesn't change that he did in fact so so.
Nameless fodder humans surviving a hit from Buu Saga Vegeta, Hercule surviving a hit from Cell, Goku being able to have children with Chi Chi, Trunks making his power level 5, etc. So yes it is more than reasonable to say that Goku held back his power "that much." Especially since right before that fight Krillin explicitly had difficulty fighting against someone vastly inferior to Goku while they were surpressing themselves. And could not have beaten them with strength.
Goku transformed to test Krillin's resolve. That's why he asked him later on "What are you going to do now?" He didn't want Krillin to freeze up in fear if he meets a high level fighter. But even without that explanation, it doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense for Goku to have transformed and then held back. Because he quite clearly did. There not being a good reason for Goku to have done that doesn't change that he did in fact so so.
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You know frieza was 4-C in the namek saga. And got to 3-A in about 4 months. Dragon ball doesn't give half a damn how quickly characters to get strong.
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Wasnt Frieza training in the afterlife before RoF? If so then it would make sense he'd get strong enough so quickly when he's been dead, like how Goku unlocked SSJ 3 extremely quickly.
Also IIRC, we don't really see 17 train. I remember him showing up in the Buu Saga to give Goku his energy for the S.B. and he looks exactly the same as he did during the cell games. So either he hasnt trained or hasnt trained that much.
Also IIRC, we don't really see 17 train. I remember him showing up in the Buu Saga to give Goku his energy for the S.B. and he looks exactly the same as he did during the cell games. So either he hasnt trained or hasnt trained that much.
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@Kukui
No, Frieza was basically petrified during his time in the afterlife and only trained for four months before RoF happened.
17 appearing to give Goku energy to the Spirit Bomb is filler.
No, Frieza was basically petrified during his time in the afterlife and only trained for four months before RoF happened.
17 appearing to give Goku energy to the Spirit Bomb is filler.
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17 appears at the end of the manga to give energy to Goku, its not filler.
Also "he doesnt look different" is not argument as to why someone didnt train especially when that person is stated to age slowly.
Also "he doesnt look different" is not argument as to why someone didnt train especially when that person is stated to age slowly.
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When was this ever a thing if I may ask? Also if 17 showing up in the manga is anything like the anime, then he was just living in the mountains hunting. I doubt that he would be training at that time or at the very least training hard. Does 17 even have a reason to train now that I think about it?RadicalMrR said:
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He's an Android. They don't physically age.
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"He doesn't look different" isn't an argument, Goku and Vegeta don't look any different physically, I suppose that means they're still Planet level or they probably haven't trained much.....same for Krillin, I guess he didn't get any stronger from the beginning of Z, or at the very most hasn't trained much or at all, Roshi looks the exact same as he did in Dragon Ball....I guess he's still as weak as he was back then
I guess when I write I have to make sure every time a character is stronger than before they MUST look different
I guess when I write I have to make sure every time a character is stronger than before they MUST look different
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Really? I thought they were just mostly humans but have parts of them remodeld by Dr. Gero to gain andriod-type capabilities, based on what Krillin said. It's why 18 is able to have children.The Everlasting said:
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Well, 17 doesn't look any different, and I don't think 18 really changed physically, so they probably don't physically age
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@Ever
18 does age a bit by the end of the manga
She looks older there than in GT.
18 does age a bit by the end of the manga
She looks older there than in GT.
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People dont need a reason to train to actually train. If the show said he trained than he did. How much? Enough to match SSB Goku, that is the information we need.
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Current episode and because Bergamo beam clashed with Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku, which is superior to Toppo and Vegeta, which defeated Goku Black.
What the bergami clashed with goku and you are putting him above black you all know goku held back and only used blue and kaioken to please zeno and putting 17 above vegito you guys are purely overestimating android 17 i dont take whole bergamo>>black thing or 17 greater than vegito
What the bergami clashed with goku and you are putting him above black you all know goku held back and only used blue and kaioken to please zeno and putting 17 above vegito you guys are purely overestimating android 17 i dont take whole bergamo>>black thing or 17 greater than vegito
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Yes technically Bergamo is weaker than Black and also Future Zamasu since the more Bergamo absorb an attack the slower he gets and he'll get overpowered by the amount of attacks that he absorb.
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Black should ne put higher and 17 shpuld be put lower than vegeta
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Trunks isnt placed above goku
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Trunks is placed above Goku for being able to fight against Zamasu and Black longer than Goku and Vegeta were capable of, and he's DEFINITELY higher with the Spirit.....Sword(?) for being able to defeat Merged Zamasu, just maybe not above Vegito Blue
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What about 17 why is he higher than vegito?
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Darkinx said:
It has been explained in official guidebooks and such (either that or actual statements by Toriyama, I forget which, but it's definitely canon), as well as to some extent by Bulma analyzing the Android's blueprints, that 17 and 18 have been modified down to the cellular level with special cybernetics by Dr. Gero.
Basically, they AREN'T human anymore, although they can breed successfully with humans. Recall that their modifications are to such an extent that freaking Shenron couldn't turn them back into normal humans. Krillin tried to wish for that, remember? Shenron was like "that is beyond my power."
The idea that all Gero gave him is infinite stamina, is PREPOSTEROUS. Consider that 17 and 18 were orders of magnitude more powerful than Final Form Frieza (himself with no training, Namek Saga) with no training. I.e. Androids 17 and 18 were pretty high up in Large Star Level tier with no training whatsoever in their lives--Simply by virtue of Dr. Gero's modifications. Having that kind of power with no formal training is completely 100% impossible for Humans in Dragon Ball. Ergo, saying that 17 and 18 are just humans is preposterous. They started out with no training stronger than Frieza with no training, so it makes sense that 17 with 10 years training would be stronger than Frieza with five months training (Golden Frieza).
Also, people need to stop whining about it "not making sense" that Frieza got so strong with only five months training. Consider the fact that if Goku and Vegeta had NEVER TRAINED and only ever used their power casually (like Frieza for his entire life up to his death in the Namek Saga) they would have never even made it to Tier 5-B. And yet, with no training whatsoever, Frieza was up to Tier High 4-C. He had way, way more genetic potential than Saiyans, due to being some kind of crazyass mutant (which is canon btw, he is a mutant). As a result, it really does make sense for him to achieve a level of powerup in over five months that would take a Saiyan over a decade.
Also, it didn't really take that long for Vegeta to progress in his training with Whis all the way to Super Saiyan Blue. It was only like, a yeaar or something. Maybe less, can't remember exactly.
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When i checkes 30 min ago he was 1st on high tier list
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I am calling it downgrades will be coming during the tournament
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He's not higher than Vegito, why would current Goku holding back in SSGSS be even at the same level as Vegito Blue?
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