Why Mario and Paper Mario are treated as the same character?

[Bobsican]

Leaving Paper Jam at a side, of course.

 

[Marionaruto1]

well simply put both characters are the same. and there is a lot of in-game connections prooving that point. from the Mario & Luigi series, Super Mario 64 ds, some smash bros trophy descriptions (like toadette), and even in the Mario Party series

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it can also be considered as that those are just parallel universes, so it doesn´t have to be treated as that they are just the same character.

That Nintendo may have stated that Mario lacks canon, that doesn´t mean we can make our own, just like SCP Foundation for example.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Headcanon is even worse, so no. We can't make our own. SCP is composited/features extended canon. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Bobsican]

Then again, we are the only ones to see it that way, so it´s technically also headcanon to see Mario and Paper Mario as the same guy, and also likely even worse than to just separate Mario from Paper Mario, as that belief is more mainstream than this one.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Pennywise is also composited

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Also, doctor who has literally no official canon according to it's own creators

 

[Bobsican]

Mario isn´t even a composite character, we have a bunch of variations of him to begin with, which aren´t used on his profile.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're right. Mario isn't a composite character. That's because all of his games are canon. Two of the things you linked weren't games and the other one is adamantly non-canon.

 

[Bobsican]

"All of his games are canon"

I´m going to assume that the one that´s "adamantly" not canon is Hotel Mario.

Then what about the Game & Watch Gallery games? Shouldn´t we scale Mr. Game & Watch to the Mario cast if it went like that?

 

[Marionaruto1]

how would he scale? the minigames don't mix they're treated as separate.

their's the original/classic game and watch variation and the modern/Mario version of the said game and watch, game.

 

[Bobsican]

Right at the start of Game & Watch Gallery 4, you can see Mario interacting with Mr. G&W.

 

[Marionaruto1]

oh, you mean during the gallery conversation about getting stars?

well like I said before since the minigames don't mix there's no scaling to be done.

having a conversation =/= scaling for anything.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, then again, that isn´t the main topic of the thread, so let´s go back to it.

Okay, at best, Mario being Paper Mario (as in the same character) is at best questionable and dubious, as everything in Paper Jam also points it as that they are just parallel universe, which is why there are versions of every character that appears in one in the other (except the ones that are actually special and show that Mario and Paper Mario aren´t the same guy, as they never were referenced in the other series), which should separate them and basically we should just treat them as different characters.

 

[Marionaruto1]

could you explain this part for me.

"as they never were referenced in the other series" are you referring to the two linked or are you referring to paper Mario stuff not being referenced in other Mario games?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, let us rephrase that, every Mario game published by Nintendo and is "legally" exclusive to Nintendo platforms. So Hotel Mario and Mario's Wacky World on CDI, the educational Mario games on DOS; including the NES/SNES ports of Mario Is Missing and Mario's Time Travel, and especially the various ROM hacks are not canon. DIC Cartoons and Nintendo Power Comics are also not canon. But every other Mario Spin off including Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Sports games, Legend of the Seven Stars, Paper Mario, Mario and Luigi series, Donkey Kong, Yoshi's Island, Wario series, Luigi's Mansion series, and more are just as canon as the main Super Mario series; they're all part of one big nonlinear continuity.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I can't believe you didn't mention Super Mario RPG

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Added Legend of the Seven Stars to the list, plus that's technically the very first Paper Mario game.

 

[Bobsican]

could you explain this part for me.
"as they never were referenced in the other series" are you referring to the two linked or are you referring to paper Mario stuff not being referenced in other Mario games?

The latter mainly.

 

[Marionaruto1]

alright then

Mario Kart circuit (GBA) shows bowsers castle from Paper Mario

Mario Party 5: star spirits, Mario Party 6: whacka's reappear

Mario & Luigi series: woohoo hooniversity shows the Paper Mario blocks

super Mario pinball shows koopatrols, as well as statues, appearing in super princess peach

super Mario 64 DS brings Goomboss/king goomba and again in Mario Kart DS

Super Smash Bros Brawl, Toadette's trophy info states her appearances in double dash and pmttyd as the same character. and is further talked about in the description of the smash 4 version of her trophy stating "She's also shown to be helpful in explaining Mario's weapons." which she only does in pmttyd

 

[Bobsican]

Smash isn´t canon, so the description fits but to the Toadette of there, not the "canon" ones (plural because of Toadette and Paper Toadette)

Most of the mentioned ones: Do they even show any memory about something that only happened in the Paper Mario games?

 

[Marionaruto1]

the trophies of smash contain cannon and even trivia information of each game the specified character is from. not like it's made up information.

Goomboss/ Goomba king mentions his loss from the previous battle from Paper Mario

 

[Bobsican]

Well, I guess it´s fine in that case, at least until more stuff regarding this appears.

As this got properly concluded, I´ll close this.

 

[Bobsican]

NVM, I rethinked about it and came to this:

What if Gomboss was talking about Mario Kart DS? I´m sure it came out before 64DS.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Didn't Mario Kart DS come out after Super Mario 64 DS? Also, considering his appearance in 64 DS was more so a revenge story, and Mario basically wiped the floor with him in Paper Mario, it makes far more sense for him to be referring to the encounter in Paper Mario. What did Mario canonically do to him story wise in the DS version? Still, there's other connections to conclude that Paper Mario and Mario are the same character. Paper Jam is just weird like that and the sequels basically confirm that as if Paper Jam never happened.

 

[Bobsican]

Sequels?

We haven´t got too much from either side (Mario or Paper Mario) series, so there´s really not much to discuss about that regard yet. Paper Jam isn´t even 10 years old yet.

As for the DS part, last time I checked, Mario Kart DS came out along with the DS system itself; 64DS came out a few weeks after that.

By the way, one of the main reasons I still can´t see Mario and Paper Mario as the same character is because their movesets are way different. Paper Mario is often regarded as a 2-D character (I´m looking at that mechanic in Super Paper Mario), and Mario, who is never talked about stuff of that sort, leaving Paper Jam at a side of course.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Toad Brigade appears in Color Splash, and they do reference other games to confirm they're the same Toad Brigade from Mario Galaxy, 3D World, and Toad Brigade. Like as if Paper Jam never happened. 64 Ds was a launch title actually, it came out the same as the DS.

And no, the game mechanics for sub-dimensional characters is a really bad Idea. The original Paper Mario, Thousand Year Door, and Sticker Star all portray Paper Mario moving in all three dimensions. Saying Mario and Paper Mario are different characters is the same thing as saying Bowser and Dry Bowser are different characters just because they appear separately in certain spin offs.

 

[Bobsican]

I guess it can be accepted by now as that they can be considered as the same character in that case.

But I still can´t unless even Cappy appears in the next Paper Mario game, not that it matters here, as that´s subjetive.

As this got concluded, you may close the thread.