Why is Tier 5 Sonic an outlier?

[WeeklyBattles]

It was rejected due to the Eggrobo being powered by Earth's biosphere

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Is there a calc for that? The Earth's biosphere thing sounds interesting.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No calc unfortunately

 

[Antvasima]

Again, someone should preferably ask Matthew Schroeder or Azathoth to comment since they're the ones who originally debunked Tier 5 base Sonic.

Feel free to do so on your own if you wish.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

The virus analogy is even worse than the Bee or Sawdust analogy,Viruses have specific ways of manipulating cellular structures & requires billions of them.Sonic shows plain as day that he was progressing in power in Generations with the Egg Emperor/Perfect Chaos battle,if he could exploit Perfect Chaos in such ways previously than the Chaos Emeralds wouldn't be needed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Medeus hit the nail in the head. Other than hurting Gaia by hitting it in the eye and defeating Perfect Chaos in base form in Generations, base Sonic has no feats which can even be scaled to Tier 5 onwards.

And the first of this is questionable as it is the equivalent of a tiny bee stinging you. Of course it's gonna hurt, but it won't mean that the bee is as strong as you are.

Sonic regularly needs multiple emeralds to produce such feats.

 

[The_Smashor]

There is actually a tier 5 base sonic feat. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, drumroll please,

EGGROBO'S BLACK HOLE FEAT

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Please calm down. This isn't important enough to get upset about.

Yeah ok chief.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Dragon I could possibly see what you mean with building confidence, if it wasn't for the fact that Sonic was actually talking about physical strength. This is during Sonic's first proper boss battle with Infinite, right after you get finished chaining homing attacks on clones to reach him.

At 6:21

Infinite: "Impossible! Your abilities exceed your previous data!"

Sonic: "Unlike mechs, I can grow! I get more powerful every second!"

Not only that, but the very next cutscene has Infinite emphasise the point.

Infinite: "Well. You've improved since last time. But you will still lose."

I don't remember the reasons the don't scale, but I think they should. Sonic later fought the Death Egg Robot after the sun creation feat, who's superior to Infinite and was powered by the Phantom Ruby after it's energy was recharged.

 

[The_Smashor]

Black hole feat?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That calc needs to be evaluated by a calc group member first, which it hasn't. Also, that doesn't even look close to a real black hole; it doesn't suck up light, so the calc may by fallacious.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah no its not a real black hole that was brought up and debunked

 

[ShakeResounding]

The "black hole" also one-shots Sonic anyeays, so he wouldn't even be able to scale.

The High 6-A calc for Infinite's Sun also had some small errors with the speed he launched it at or something. All we need to do is have that recalced instead.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Executor, who made the calc is a calc group member.

However at the same time he also admitted that it may not have the properties of a real black hole, and the calc assumes it does. So it isn't usuable unfortunately.

 

[Wokistan]

Even if calc members make the calc, another calc member, Kaltias, or DontTalk still has to eval it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, and if the calc group member himself says it's too fallacious, then it's preferable to listen to them anyway.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Then let's just try and recalc Infinite's Sun and forget the 5-A business, and I'm pretty confident it'll still be High 6-A after it's fixed.

I thi k there was something wring with the speed value used or something. I'll try and find it.

 

[The_Smashor]

Oh.

Well, I have nothing left to say on this.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Here's the original calc.

Apparently the only things wrong were not using the surface tempurature of the sun and using a Mach 1 assumption for speed. Not sure if we can just fix those, or if it needs to be redone entirely.

 

[Wokistan]

Can we use that based on everyone's reactions though? Everyone was pretty hopeless about doing anything about that, and seemed to be unable to overpower that. This also isn't at all like a standard attack. Assuming infinite's always been putting as much power behind his attacks as he did this finisher seems odd.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So is this concluded? The question does appear to be answered. Infinite's Sun calc could be requested for a recreation on the request thread, which could also be discussed on another thread if needed.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

"But Shadow, everyone was afraid of that sun hitting them. How could they scale?"
Which is directly contradicted by Sonic and the Avatar defeating Infinite even after having the Ruby's energy recharged and then defeating the Death Egg Robot which is superior to Infinite.

For crying out loud Tails in the game is afraid of Chaos 0 when he defeated Chaos 4 in Sonic Adventure.

And just to solidify my point.

 

[Wokistan]

Forces kinda just doesn't ever make sense though, and i'm not really seeing any sort of indication that Infinite's regular attacks are being fired off with anywhere near the same amount of power. Characters can have a technique way above the rest of their stuff.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Infinite's durability would still scale to it.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Medeus is right, the question here's been answered. We should have the Sun creation recalced and shift over to a different thread to discuss this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And that case, I shall close the thread.