Why do we assume "beyond dimensions" statements give a +1 dimension rating

[Robo432343]

wouldn't that literally contradict it being beyond dimensions

 

[Furudo_Erika]

imo, yes.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

wouldn't that literally contradict it being beyond dimensions

It depends on the verse. For example, it is possible that in the verse it is said about a universe beyond dimensions, that it may just be another L2C.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Q: How do I determine if something is "transcendent"?
A: "Transcendence" is a vague term which can be used in several contexts, many of which do not at all align with how it is normally used in our forums, as it simply means "to go beyond the ordinary", first and foremost. For example, statements of "transcending space and time" can refer to things like time travel, dimensional travel, or even agelessness in some cases. Hence, it is very preferable to ascertain the meaning of statements involving this term from background context (If there is any), being especially careful around flowery language or purple prose.

Now, one of the most common scenarios where this question might arise is when dealing with cosmologies involving "higher planes of existence" or similar structures. In such cases, it's very important to note what exactly being a "higher plane" entails in the context of the setting: For instance, it's very common for Heaven and Hell to be defined as higher and lower planes of existence respectively in relation to the normal universe, in which case, "higher" and "lower" tends to simply indicate their position in a cosmology, as opposed to any kind of existential status, which is obviously not enough for anything remotely Tier 1.

They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.

Q: What tier is transcending space and time?
A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is qualitatively superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

It is perfectly possible for a statement like transcending space and time to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. It's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space." Transcend space and time can also refer to a spacetime continuum being different to a "regular" spacetime continuum (Say, a strange-looking reality that may hold a few different physical laws, for example) or slightly do be more complex than a regular universe, even significantly so, but not qualitatively superior. Something A being said to "transcend" something B in real life can refer to the former being superior to the latter in some qualities in a notable way, but still roughly compatible. It does not necessarily mean transcendence not in an immeasurable way that would be graphically indescribable, such as A's qualities being superior to B by infinite amounts. With this in mind, statements of realities or beings with transcendence over space & time/the universe/etc., on their own, are not assumed to refer to qualitatively superiority, unless of course further context may elaborate on and contextualize this.

It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.

Q: What tier is transcending dimensions?

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A: As specified above, a "dimension" is nothing more than a set of values representing a given direction within a system, and a multi-dimensional space can itself be thought of as a multiplication of several "copies" of these sets. For instance, the 3-dimensional space in which we live is often visualized as the set of all 3-tuples of real numbers (Thus, taking its values from the real number line, R), and is thus the result of the iterated multiplication: R x R x R = R³, likewise, 4-dimensional space is the set of all 4-tuples of real numbers, and is thus equal to R x R x R x R = R⁴, and so on and so forth.

Practically speaking, this means that there is no limit for the number of dimensions which a space can have whatsoever, and one can construct spaces whose dimension corresponds to any cardinal number, including the infinite ones mentioned above. It is not even necessary for us to restrict ourselves to values taken from the real numbers, either: It is also possible to define the space of all n-tuples of cardinal numbers (Which takes its values from V, the class of all sets)

As a result, it is not at all feasible to take any statements involving a character existing "beyond dimensions" at face value, as this would lead to extremely inflated ratings largely dependent on No-Limits Fallacies. Therefore, such descriptors are to be evaluated while taking into account the number of dimensions which the verse has been shown to entertain; for example, a character stated to exist above physical dimensions in relation to a 4-dimensional cosmology would be Low 1-C with no further context.

 

[Robo432343]

if it gives a +1 D rating, doesn't that contradict it being beyond dimensions

 

[Wardokman69]

if it gives a +1 D rating, doesn't that contradict it being beyond dimensions

No lmao, it means you're beyond the dimension that depicted in your verse. If your verse's dimension is low 2-C, you're low 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

No lmao, it means you're beyond the dimension that depicted in your verse. If your verse's dimension is low 2-C, you're low 1-C.

but its supposed to be above any number of dimensions
a verse has shown to have qualitative superiority over the 8th and 9th dimension. and then we have the final space which states that its beyond any number of dimensions, it wouldn't make any sense for us to say its 10D

 

[SunDaGamer]

but its supposed to be above any number of dimensions
a verse has shown to have qualitative superiority over the 8th and 9th dimension. and then we have the final space which states that its beyond any number of dimensions, it wouldn't make any sense for us to say its 10D

If the cosmology isn't High 1-B then I don't think there's precedent for "beyond dimensions" meaning Outerversal

 

[Qawsedf234]

if it gives a +1 D rating, doesn't that contradict it being beyond dimensions

If you can prove that their beyond a nested cosmology then it can get into 1-A. Otherwise it's just +1.

 

[Kowalski]

wouldn't that literally contradict it being beyond dimensions

The phrase "beyond dimensions" alone is rather too vague. I believe.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The phrase "beyond dimensions" alone is rather too vague. I believe.

Its about the NLF more than vagueness.

 

[Robo432343]

The phrase "beyond dimensions" alone is rather too vague. I believe.

im talking about 'beyond dimensions' with qualitative superiority, context and everything

 

[LuisGeno]

What exactly do you mean by "context and all"? If there is enough evidence to draw a deductive rather than an inductive conclusion that; really such a statement makes it to 1-A, if it counts. But well, that takes a lot, a lot of evidence to get there.