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Who could bypass Accelerator's shield?
- Thread starter SemiRaedi
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oh yes perfect vision is useful but that's for 1 and 2 , in 3 4 5 he does not know even what are Espers and is a bit of stretch to say it would give him full info of something he does not even know to exist , tho he would probably figure out accel personality and attacks is not really helpful here other than guessing if he changed the parameters, and for the tries endurance and durability don't really matters vs refection, it would just break or straight up cut of the arms (since unlike a barrier the whole force is reversed even the rebounding one), if we assume infinite tries then yes after some time he would figure it out
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Ikki figuring out abilities ain't exactly new. Just from testing he found out about Marginal Counter, this is not that far off as while it's an ability it's a logical one. Unlike Amane's ability. So within a few tries he would pull it off. And ikki is a master at bodily vector control throwing the force he takes behind him is sth he does all the time. Ikki ain't as easy to put down, remember Ikki fights people several tiers above him on the daily.
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- Thread starter
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who is ZY?
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We are talking about a different system entirely (even with verse equalization it would be more similar to magic than espers) a bit of a different example, i can give that he could figure out the idea of his power but the whole different system is overreaching
and no master of bodily vector is not in no way shape or form even working on direct reality warping vectors up to 1C, he is not offsetting those, that's way overreaching, that would mean he overrides the vector that accel is currently controlling, if u say such a thing then we can just wank in that he could just be unaffected by reflection and be done with the discussion cause if he can redirect the control then he can just pass it because it would not affect him
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He doesn't need to, just understanding the basic idea behind it will do. No need for all the complex stuff as long as he understands that the reflection is conscious the rest is just perfect vision.
Never said that, what i said is let it flow through his body without damaging him, the energy that is. He will be affected by the reflection just not hurt by it. And the 1-C vectors don't mean anything as Accel doesn't control the vectors from beginning to end, otherwise pulling out
wouldn't work either.Kinda funny that someone like accel gets own'd by pulling out though.
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I still fail to see what are you trying to achive here
Sword fights are math are different jeez.
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Who can perform the Kihara counter if given some help/directions
He analyses the history of someones fighting style via looking at their stance - sword fights
He analyses the history of how accelerator's shield was made to function via seeing it perform a reflection - "math"
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Zhong Yue.
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Nonsense. Bring me scans that proves he can deal with Accel's type of power.
Reading a fighting stance and reading through invisible AIM filed are totally different things.
Accel, calcs are done with the scale of hundreds of super powered computers
I may have not read the novel but I watch the anime. I don't recall Ikki being a math freak of science.
On what earth are those 2 the same thing?
This is the definition of NLF
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- Thread starter
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he is making an accurate prediction over a fighting style based off one feature of it the same way he is making a prediction over an AIM field's application based of a reflection
For scans I'll check the Ikki feats thread and if I can't find it there I'll ask earl since he commonly uses the feat as an example of Ikki's skill so I might take awhile (he'll also be able to defend Ikki alot better than me due to having more knowledge over all his feats).
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apparently the anime covers 3 volumes while the novel has 18 volumes
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He doesn't need to understand the mathematical equations behind it, he just needs to understand the basic idea. Similar to how we say "he just reflects it back" and then just predict what Accel will do with it. Don't overcomplicate it.
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The calcs aren't done in the AIM so seeing or reading it isn't needed, being able to understand what he is thinking would already be enough.
Also, Mina was able to ignore the reflection via outcalcing Accel, not something Ikki can do, but ZY can.
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Yes and no.
Yes, cus yes.
No, cus it's not just Shizuku. All magic in rakudai requires very complex equations even for simple tasks. Shizuku is just a god tier in terms of Magic Control (and ikki is stated to surpass her even before the fusion).
Bold assumption there.
Why ppl no read Ikki's IQ section before saying stuff.
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But regardless saying "you need to understand the entire math of Accel's ability to develop a counter" is like saying "you need to understand binary code to do anything on your PC".
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Again, how is he reading Accel's thought pattern on the structure of his AIM filed? You said fighting stance but chirst Accel doesn't even have a fighting stance lol.
Are we assuming here that Ikki is going to understand every bit of how Accel's reflecting and calcs pattern by just a look?
Bruh I did read it. I never said Ikki was dump, but there is a difference between a guy who can read a history of a sword and fighting style and making a map of extremely complicated structure calcs on the level of accounting of every. They are very different fileds and Ikki has no business getting inside Accel's head because he can read fighting style
Right back at you. Also very false equalization and ignoring the idea that is being discussed here.
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He's going to understand how the reflection works, not the mathematical process behind it. The same way you can understand how it works without doing all the math.
Judging from you answer, no you did not.
Right back at me? The example over "you don't need math to understand a process that rides on it"?
Which fields? Computer and Accel?
Ironic considering we're talking about ikki.
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The reflection is automatic he does not consciously reflect stuff, he sometimes does not even realize someone did something , unless he set it up differently, and again he needs to know those complex stuff that u just dismissed to know where to pull back and what timingHe doesn't need to, just understanding the basic idea behind it will do. No need for all the complex stuff as long as he understands that the reflection is conscious the rest is just perfect vision.
Never said that, what i said is let it flow through his body without damaging him, the energy that is. He will be affected by the reflection just not hurt by it. And the 1-C vectors don't mean anything as Accel doesn't control the vectors from beginning to end, otherwise pulling out
Kinda funny that someone like accel gets own'd by pulling out though.
No it works exactly cause he is in control, or pulling back would just pull back the punch instead of moving it forward and again if he can overide the control then he can just bypass it closing the whole argument
Amata even Mock him as he is essentially punching himself , and when he removes the refelction he just punches normally
If he was no longer in control of the vector then the field would once again consider it harmufull and resend it back once again
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You give the best feats for Ikki and i give the best ones for Accel, but i think the 100 supercomputers is good enough to surpass Ikki.
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I think for Accel best feats for calculation are rewritting a brain completely in minutes, overcoming chaos theory (more relevant),casualy reflecting light radiation even with his power off
But anyway it's not relevant here op asked for bypassing the reflection using skill not brute forcing with calculation overload
But anyway it's not relevant here op asked for bypassing the reflection using skill not brute forcing with calculation overload
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Well, i would like a thread to discuss something like that, maybe a thread to find the highest feat for espers' calc speed.
At least for Accel iirc in some old thread someone did a calc for the calc speed he would need to do the Earth Rotation attack, and the result was really good.
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Shizuku pulled off complex calculations for 10^28 (i think) atoms to purify it from electrons (turn water into pure water) at the same time while doing 2 other tasks, and the 10^28 was done every time lightning struck which was basically rapid fire all from an opponent who was superior in speed.
Shizuku vol 3 did that. Shizuku vol 4 is >>>>> that. Ikki pre Edel training is > Shizuku vol 4.
Ikki post edel training >>>>>> Ikki pre edel training (as in not even comparable, it was called immature in comparison)
Shizuku vol 15 >>>>> Shizuku vol 4. And ikki fuses with her in vol 16.
Yes ofc, but he can consciously change the reflection.
Doesn't need to know the math, just the timing and distance which he can get from just testing 1 or 2 times the rest is just knowing what Accel will do if he changes it or just knowing what to do if Accel doesn't change it.
No, unless you can prove that when Accel reflects things he prevents it from moving further than a certain spot then it's a flawed argument. Not to mention that he reflects the attack not the energy. Ikki redirects the energy.
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Wdym?
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That u may want to actually read the profile, Accel reflection works on vectors , any vector,as u may or may not know energy is a vector, and as explained above accelerator is controlling it (subconsciously) , if it worked like you said then the pull back method would not work at all as the aim field would consider the vector as forginer and once again send it back
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Excuse me?
There is still the issue as i said that unless he makes it impossible to move past a point then it won't stop people from redirecting it. Unless you can show me Accel throwing back a punch and preventing people from rotating (subconsciously).
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What do u mean excuse me, energy is a vector the field reflects all vectors what's there to explain
well yes i already said he reflect the rebounding force too it's specifically stated in the profile
just an exmaple of what u said
"The experiment that used twenty thousand of the Sisters to evolve him into a Level 6 had ended. Had his defeat changed the world? If it did, then how? There was the sound of bones breaking behind Accelerator. Of course, they didn’t belong to him. They belonged to the scoundrel who tried to stab him in the back with his knife. His wrist was broken. The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body."
"They shouted and brandished their blades and nightsticks, but Accelerator couldn’t have cared less. He left his hands hanging lazily at his sides. They would defeat themselves without him doing a thing. The vectors of their attacks would all be reflected and concentrated back into their complex and frail wristbones."
the reflection field affect the whole object that touches it (so the whole body)
well yes i already said he reflect the rebounding force too it's specifically stated in the profile
just an exmaple of what u said
"The experiment that used twenty thousand of the Sisters to evolve him into a Level 6 had ended. Had his defeat changed the world? If it did, then how? There was the sound of bones breaking behind Accelerator. Of course, they didn’t belong to him. They belonged to the scoundrel who tried to stab him in the back with his knife. His wrist was broken. The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body."
"They shouted and brandished their blades and nightsticks, but Accelerator couldn’t have cared less. He left his hands hanging lazily at his sides. They would defeat themselves without him doing a thing. The vectors of their attacks would all be reflected and concentrated back into their complex and frail wristbones."
the reflection field affect the whole object that touches it (so the whole body)
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This is what i mean "excuse me". What do you mean Energy is a vector? Where did you get that?
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ok ill be totally honest , this is not an insult but at what lvl did you study physic ?
any sort of energy is vectorial (at least in our world), any changes u make make in the world require vectors the only type of non vectorial change you can make in to a system is adding something to it, and i don't mean create but expand the field which encompasses stuff (if we take for example a room as a system, by instead expanding it to the whole house u changed something in a system but not using vectors)
kinetic= obvious one
thermal= agitation of atoms and exchange of electrons
electric= movement of electrons
etc
any sort of energy is vectorial (at least in our world), any changes u make make in the world require vectors the only type of non vectorial change you can make in to a system is adding something to it, and i don't mean create but expand the field which encompasses stuff (if we take for example a room as a system, by instead expanding it to the whole house u changed something in a system but not using vectors)
kinetic= obvious one
thermal= agitation of atoms and exchange of electrons
electric= movement of electrons
etc
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Im an engineer student.
Energy flow is vectorial. Energy itself is scalar. It has no vectors. When there is transfer of energy then you can talk about vectors due to the direction of the transfer (from which object to what), not for energy in general.
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That's on macro lvl not on the micro lvl, we generalize as scalar because it's more simple than calling the sum of the movement of electrons
energy itself is vectorial, what is scalar are measure like mass, etc (which obviously accelerator can't directly affect)
anyway the scans speak for themselves, so we can close the argument about that even if you want to insist on the illusion of scalar energy
energy itself is vectorial, what is scalar are measure like mass, etc (which obviously accelerator can't directly affect)
anyway the scans speak for themselves, so we can close the argument about that even if you want to insist on the illusion of scalar energy
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Not all energy is sum of movement and it's not specifically of electrons either. Although not gonna turn this thread into a physics class, do hit me up with any links if you have an sources that explain your point better just in case we're having a case of misunderstanding.
My dms and profile msg wall are always open.
Which scans? I asked for scans of Accel's passive field stopping people from redirecting the energy or turning it into other motions that would prevent them from being hurt from it.
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i know it's not just electrons but i think u understand my point all energy is vectorial on the micro lvl, it's just more convenient to use the scalar because it's the same end result for what we use it
u asked
"The experiment that used twenty thousand of the Sisters to evolve him into a Level 6 had ended. Had his defeat changed the world? If it did, then how? There was the sound of bones breaking behind Accelerator. Of course, they didn’t belong to him. They belonged to the scoundrel who tried to stab him in the back with his knife. His wrist was broken. The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body."
"They shouted and brandished their blades and nightsticks, but Accelerator couldn’t have cared less. He left his hands hanging lazily at his sides. They would defeat themselves without him doing a thing. The vectors of their attacks would all be reflected and concentrated back into their complex and frail wristbones."
as u can see they didn't get thrown back or anything they just broke their arm
u asked
"The experiment that used twenty thousand of the Sisters to evolve him into a Level 6 had ended. Had his defeat changed the world? If it did, then how? There was the sound of bones breaking behind Accelerator. Of course, they didn’t belong to him. They belonged to the scoundrel who tried to stab him in the back with his knife. His wrist was broken. The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body."
"They shouted and brandished their blades and nightsticks, but Accelerator couldn’t have cared less. He left his hands hanging lazily at his sides. They would defeat themselves without him doing a thing. The vectors of their attacks would all be reflected and concentrated back into their complex and frail wristbones."
as u can see they didn't get thrown back or anything they just broke their arm
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That is because the wrist gets reflected, whereas the body doesn't, meaning they end up pushing their whole weight on their wrist, breaking it in the process.
They are just average people who cannot deal with that, ikki on the other hand would be able to change the movement of his body before his wrist gets crushed.
Different types of energy require motion, but don't measure the direction of said motion, just the presence of it. Heat for example although it relies on motion of the particles is not a form of energy that measures the direction of the movement, but rather just movement. You cannot change heat by reversing the movement of the atoms. There is also potential energy which is does not include motion at all, but as i said i don't wanna turn this into a physics class.
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Also the more i reply to the energy and vector points the more i feel like we're going off topic. As i don't think at this point it even matters as he would be able to indirectly affect energy by affecting motion. But my original point was "does his passive just reflect things or does it make the motion stop at certain points?".
If it doesn't stop the motion wherever he wants and if he doesn't force the direction he reflected something to be active for practically eternity redirecting it would work. Just for context if he were to force the reflected direction for eternity (until he turned it off) it would mean people that try to bisect him from the top-down with a sword would literally end up flying to the moon after being reflected.
If it doesn't stop the motion wherever he wants and if he doesn't force the direction he reflected something to be active for practically eternity redirecting it would work. Just for context if he were to force the reflected direction for eternity (until he turned it off) it would mean people that try to bisect him from the top-down with a sword would literally end up flying to the moon after being reflected.
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Question, you are surprised? Cause that seems quite basic when looking at everything Accel did IMO.
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no it clearly says the vectors are pointed there, accelerator is still controlling them (even subconsciously)or the whole body weight would move them backwards too instead of just breaking their wrist
ur point is that ikki would control the vector but hat would happen only after he would leave the reflection field as accel power applies to anything touching the field, he just needs to to graze an object to affect it whole, (even 1 mm) by that point the damage is done already , and again i already explained if it worked like u said the kihara counter would not work as the vector once reversed would by your logic be outside the control of accelerator so it would once again be reflected back cause the field works in the whole area not just the edge (one of the reason why u can't just teleport something inside him), the power is extensively explained in the profile and feat page
and again u did not even explain how would he figure out where his active AIM field is as u said above ikki can't figure out what esper and the complex stuff is but unlike u said it is essential to figure out the timing
edit:before u say he just needs to hit it to figure it out, there is nothing to hit, Accelerator's reflection is not a physical shield that can be hit. It's a small region of space around Accelerator where his power is always on under the passive setting of "reflection".
ur point is that ikki would control the vector but hat would happen only after he would leave the reflection field as accel power applies to anything touching the field, he just needs to to graze an object to affect it whole, (even 1 mm) by that point the damage is done already , and again i already explained if it worked like u said the kihara counter would not work as the vector once reversed would by your logic be outside the control of accelerator so it would once again be reflected back cause the field works in the whole area not just the edge (one of the reason why u can't just teleport something inside him), the power is extensively explained in the profile and feat page
and again u did not even explain how would he figure out where his active AIM field is as u said above ikki can't figure out what esper and the complex stuff is but unlike u said it is essential to figure out the timing
edit:before u say he just needs to hit it to figure it out, there is nothing to hit, Accelerator's reflection is not a physical shield that can be hit. It's a small region of space around Accelerator where his power is always on under the passive setting of "reflection".
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