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Who could bypass Accelerator's shield?

SemiRaedi

SemiRaedi

2,500
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The title is a little bit misleading so let me explain, one of the few methods of bypassing the shield is by exploiting the way it works which is how Kihara Amata managed to do it, the technique needs for the user to have extreme precision and skill while also knowing what changes Accelerator will make forcing you to make even more minuscule changes to your attacks so that you can continue to hit him.

So out of 10 characters who are some of the most skilled on the wiki who do you think can and cannot do it (characters in their most skilled keys if they have one)?
Kars
Ikki
Yujiro
Mori Jin
Garou
Pray Mayer
Sasaki Kojirou
Fugil Arcadia
Goku
Vash

To spice things up I added specific circumstances to see if they could do it under more harder circumstances
Circumstance 1. Given deep knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and an auto-biography of Accelerator
Circumstance 2. Given deep knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and brief knowledge on his personality
Circumstance 3. Given brief knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and brief knowledge on his personality
Circumstance 4. Only given brief knowledge on Accelerator's reflection
Circumstance 5. Survived getting/saw Accelerator reflecting something and has to work from there

Brief knowledge on reflection means that they know that the shield automatically reflects anything that comes in contact and that if they pull back it will suck them in, thats all. Brief knowledge on his personality is simply just what we'd call a short summary on Accel's personality.

all characters are assumed to be peak human in all stats to prevent characters who are faster than 2xFTL or prevent speed amps in speed equalized
 
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Speaking for my boy Ikki.
1. Easily
2. Still easily
3. Yes, although it might take a bit depending on what "brief" is
4. Same as above
5. It will take time (maybe 1 or a couple of minutes) but still yes.

Also take Edel off the list, she's pretty much featless.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Speaking for my boy Ikki.
1. Easily
2. Still easily
3. Yes, although it might take a bit depending on what "brief" is
4. Same as above
5. It will take time (maybe 1 or a couple of minutes) but still yes.

Also take Edel off the list, she's pretty much featless.
Click to expand...
k
 
Anyone with above 2xFTL can just ignore the shield so i think they are just naturally excluded from this? Anyway:

In C1 anyone with barely any useful timing feat can do that, Touma would be able to do it due to his Precog (not like anyone has instinctive reaction in the level Touma has, but you get the idea)

C2 is also easy, what changes is that the less skilled you are the less likely it is to pull the counter after an update.

C3-C4 depends what brief knowledge is, if it only includes the range of the shield and that it being based in vector control there will be no indication of a "gap" existing, if it also includes "he needs to calc before reflecting" they will know there is "gap" but if they would be able to find.

C5 is very unlikely, how many character would notice that it is based on subconscious calcs? Sure there are some that would, but it's a very limited listed afaik, Ikki and ZY are one of the few i know are in this level, (excluded Edel because she is FTL+ so she would just bypass it, and idk if Ikki should be included since idk if he can do it in his first key, the only one below FTL+).
 
Mhh is not just a matter of skill, even if u knew how Accel reflection work u would need to know where currently he set up the reflection field to be and if he didn't do some modifications, Amata could do it because he helped develop both his power and personality so even if he did some changes he would be able to tell (it's on of the reason Accel gave up on it) , Amata was not that much faster than an human he just was very precise in his movements ( it's his field of study to apply hammer Lvl of force in micro scale), so in theory anyone with great control of their body and the ability to read Accel mind and having read the file on the Amata research could do it , another option instead of reading mind is someone who could somehow see the reflection reality distortion field with precision and read exactly where is located and what properties it has at the moment
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Speaking for my boy Ikki.
1. Easily
2. Still easily
3. Yes, although it might take a bit depending on what "brief" is
4. Same as above
5. It will take time (maybe 1 or a couple of minutes) but still yes.

Also take Edel off the list, she's pretty much featless.
Click to expand...
while I doubt it changes anything considering how ridiculously skilled Ikki is, do you think that the new updates I made change anything?
 
Malox1696 said:
Mhh is not just a matter of skill, even if u knew how Accel reflection work u would need to know where currently he set up the reflection field to be and if he didn't do some modifications, Amata could do it because he helped develop both his power and personality so even if he did some changes he would be able to tell (it's on of the reason Accel gave up on it) , Amata was not that much faster than an human he just was very precise in his movements ( it's his field of study to apply hammer Lvl of force in micro scale), so in theory anyone with great control of their body and the ability to read Accel mind and having read the file on the Amata research could do it , another option instead of reading mind is someone who could somehow see the reflection reality distortion field with precision and read exactly where is located and what properties it has at the moment
Click to expand...
'the technique needs for the user to have extreme precision and skill while also knowing what changes Accelerator will make forcing you to make even more minuscule changes to your attacks so that you can continue to hit him.'
 
Malox1696 said:
u would need to know where currently he set up the reflection field to be and if he didn't do some modifications
Click to expand...
Pretty sure C1 and C2 give info about that, and i am sure we are taking it at 0 modifications at the start (indeed i don't even know if Accel is allowed to update here).
 
If we include the knowledge Touma already has on Accel, pretty sure he would be able to do it in all 5 Cs.

All hail Touma's precog, the most broken thing in Toaru.
 
XDragnoir said:
If we include the knowledge Touma already has on Accel, pretty sure he would be able to do it in all 5 Cs.

All hail Touma's precog, the most broken thing in Toaru.
Click to expand...
I thought Touma's precog was just capable of sensing stuff coming from other dimensions and was developed from just fighting skill out members.
 
XDragnoir said:
Pretty sure C1 and C2 give info about that, and i am sure we are taking it at 0 modifications at the start (indeed i don't even know if Accel is allowed to update here).
Click to expand...
My main goal was to see who could pull it off rather than win and also pull it off so thats why I didn't add updating
 
SemiRaedi said:
I thought Touma's precog was just capable of sensing stuff coming from other dimensions and was developed from just fighting skill out members.
Click to expand...
Hm? That's one of the things he can precog yeah, but it's not what he is limited to, he predicted L6S's lightning spear and Fiamma's sword attack (at least in the anime, iirc in the LN it was a bit different, but you get the idea).
 
XDragnoir said:
If we include the knowledge Touma already has on Accel, pretty sure he would be able to do it in all 5 Cs.

All hail Touma's precog, the most broken thing in Toaru.
Click to expand...
I'm quite sure touma does not have the muscle control to precisely strike it voluntarily
 
About ikki assuming Accel does not change the field property when he sees someone aim for the Amata counter
1 yes
2 yes
3 no , at least not 100% as he would need to figure it out first (and from my knowledge he can't see AIM and read it)
4 no as i believe he would break himself first as he tries
5 same a above

Goku garou
1 yes
2,3,4,5 no

For other characters i don't have enough knowledge
 
Malox1696 said:
About ikki assuming Accel does not change the field property when he sees someone aim for the Amata counter
1 yes
2 yes
3 no , at least not 100% as he would need to figure it out first (and from my knowledge he can't see AIM and read it)
4 no as i believe he would break himself first as he tries
5 same a above

Goku garou
1 yes
2,3,4,5 no

For other characters i don't have enough knowledge
Click to expand...
@Firephoenixearl you got anything to say about this considering your the Ikki expert?
 
Malox1696 said:
I'm quite sure touma does not have the muscle control to precisely strike it voluntarily
Click to expand...
His precog would do that, indeed evading so many of Othinus arrows is a more impressive feat than the pull back method.

Well yeah he may be unable to do it in C5 but that's the only one.
 
XDragnoir said:
We are all dumbs, so no problem.
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself Mr. Touma can do the pull back

Touma doesn't have the speed, the control of muscles, the knowledge, or practices to pull that off.
This is frankly one of the worst things you ever said on this wiki

Touma's precog works only on long distant magical attacks, it's not a freaking Sharaengan and any relevant martial artist can waste him.
A professional assassin with full knowledge about Accel's PR reality failed doing it, what makes you think touma can do it? Cuz he punched Accel few times?
 
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This thread is just so dump in general because why even give accel this much handicaps and ask who can bypass his shield? It's like making a vs thread and taking away his reflection away"

Which happens before btw

And let me tell you even with all these handicaps,
Thought patterns are like congestive sequences this is several levels above an auto biography
You can’t read an auto biography and then predict what thoughts and brain patterns someone will make in all scenarios

Amata could only do it because he was the one who basically desigend and made Accel's power
 
ZERO7772 said:
This thread is just so dump in general because why even give accel this much handicaps and ask who can bypass his shield? It's like making a vs thread and taking away his reflection away"

Which happens before btw

And let me tell you even with all these handicaps,
Thought patterns are like congestive sequences this is several levels above an auto biography
You can’t read an auto biography and then predict what thoughts and brain patterns someone will make in all scenarios

Amata could only do it because he was the one who basically desigend and made Accel's power
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First of all, I made this thread without the purpose of said character beating accel but of who could perform the technique, unless they are nigh omniscient/omniscient they literally need some information which naturally handicaps accel (its like complaining about characters getting wins in speed equalized matches even though those could be considered handicaps to the faster character).

The auto-biography was simply an option, I never implied it would help them out a massive amount, characters like Ikki can know the entire history of someones fighting style and how it was made just by their stance so I don't think its necessary to just give them mind reading powers when they can do stuff like this.

And for your last point, I'm getting characters like Garou who could literally just get hit by Amata using his microscopic techniques a few times and then subconsciously copy it later on (he quite literally did so in series towards another fighting style where he got beat up by it and subconsciously copied it later on) or Ikki who like I said, would literally know how the counter is performed via knowing the entire history of how Kihara made it from Kihara getting ready to punch him.
 
XDragnoir said:
His precog would do that, indeed evading so many of Othinus arrows is a more impressive feat than the pull back method.

Well yeah he may be unable to do it in C5 but that's the only one.
Click to expand...
that's why i said voluntarily he never showed percog used in such precise way especially in offensive manner cause if so he would be able to strike just nerve of opponents (or weak points) and instantly win cause precog , so no precog is not an all end answer to everything

leaving aside that he still does not have the control over his body to have such lvl of precision (one of the reason why he still get hit sometimes even with precog and just tries to minimize the damage), othinus arrow dodging is just dodging by knowing where to go before it hits, not precision
 
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Firephoenixearl said:
Cus you have knowledge on ikki? :sneaky:
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well yes tho i stopped reading after it got removed from baka (yes i know they were behind in translation ) so my memory may fail me

but i don't remember him having anything that can detect something like AIM, so in case 3 4 5 unless we give him infinite tries till he succeeded passing once (which in that case going by probability even a slug if given infinite time would at some point simply by random chance pull back at the right spot), i assume OP meant consistently not by luck or a 50%

Considering brief knowledge just gives u and idea of the ability instead of knowing AIM esper power etc , information analysis needs to see or hear , etc to work so how would he be able to use it on AIM ?
 
I mean he has some general knowledge at least so that's fair. I didn't know he had read part of the series though. Most people haven't even watched the anime (which covers the first 3 volumes) but still talk about Ikki and i die inside when i see that, so someone having some knowledge is pretty rare.
 
i said some knowledge and i said i stopped reading too

idk if he gained something similar to what i described after (at least it's not on the profile) , u can correct me if im wrong ,but in case 3 to 5 brief knowledge is just that he has a barrier that reflect stuff and there is a place where u can pull back that bypass it, so i don't know how he would figure out the exact point not even knowing what espers are especially if he changes the parameters mid fight

btw i stared from the manga then found the novel on baka then slow translation and finding more series put it in the back seat (sad fate of most series)
 
The thing is even with the info from those volumes it would still be possible for him considering he can pull of Perfect Vision. As for "not on the first try", while that's true, it wouldn't take more than a few at most. And it would be possible to pull it off considering his endurance and blade invulnerability.
 
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