When should creator entities gain all of their creations' abilities?

[ImmortalDread]

I will add your vote to the post. Please if you don't mind, ping staff members to join the discussion and choose one.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have helped out in this thread previously?

 

[Antvasima]

@LordGriffin1000, @Theglassman12, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Psychomaster35, @Planck69, @Zaratthustra, @Ultima_Reality, @Everything12, @Damage3245, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @Moritzva, @Duedate8898, @Matthew_Schroeder, @GyroNutz, @IdiosyncraticLawyer

Which of the suggestions in the following links do you prefer that we use here? I personally currently prefer Agnaa's solution.

When should creator entities gain all of their creations' abilities?

Mostly wording changes, adding links and expanding some areas, I think it's easier to just link this history page comparison for simplicity purposes. I also shifted a bit the premise as Dread's original version acted as if this only extended to cases of characters gaining absolutely all...

vsbattles.com

When should creator entities gain all of their creations' abilities?

Mostly wording changes, adding links and expanding some areas, I think it's easier to just link this history page comparison for simplicity purposes. I also shifted a bit the premise as Dread's original version acted as if this only extended to cases of characters gaining absolutely all...

vsbattles.com

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Antvasima

I need more staff member's opinions. I don't think the current introductions lacks anything, except now I added some corrections.

Likewise, I got inspired specifically from this page https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Reality-Fiction_Transcendence, and we similarly follow like this in other pages. We don't simply do some short introductions (I don't mind it being concise, but it is also should be comprehensive)

I am not in position to respond to Agnaa's needless frustrations. The introduction is not focusing on this central theme, but it is mostly this cases, which is why I added the last sentence after I conceded it.

The first draft uses more technical language (which I was inspired in many other pages I created or worked on) and the second one uses simpler language and less technical.

To summarize: which one do you prefer?

First suggestion:

Second suggestion: (@Antvasima @Agnaa)

Third suggestion: (@Antvasima, @Agnaa)

Honestly any of the 3 work for me so you could put me down in each, whichever has the most I'd be fine with since they all still are talking about all entities in some capacity.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I have added your vote as you wished. Thanks for the evaluation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

3rd section makes the most sense, and yeah it's a bit of a mess and I do keep fully misremembering who agreed with what. But the 3rd section makes the most sense overall.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I added the vote. Thanks for your evaluation.

@Agnaa
Unless any objections arise by tomorrow and no one raises concerns, I will acquiesce. I don't tend to engage in arguments over phrasing; however, I believe that both versions convey the same message and nothing suggests the first one to be misleading. Moreover, my version aligns well with the existing wording throughout the pages. But it is what it is, and we are dragging the thread to void for nothing worth.

Consequently, I entrust you with the entire thread's creation, along with incorporating the submitted introduction and closure of the thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I disagree, I think some people are wise enough to be able to place that sort of thing on page creation

I don't. People regularly struggle with what Acasual to use and what counts as higher dimensional. Giving a profile every single power in the franchise is something that should require a CRT and what does or doesn't count needs to be clarified explicitly.

Which of the suggestions in the following links do you prefer that we use here?

Version 3.

 

[Bobsican]

Agnaa seems to make sense to me above, but to be fair, I do not think that Bobsican is deliberately manipulative. He just lacks common sense sometimes.

That was from Dread, I actually told her to not do that but she was persistent on doing that out of that apparently being the original intent of the OP, when we have long moved from that at best...

Anyways, I'm fine with Agnaa's version.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't. People regularly struggle with what Acasual to use and what counts as higher dimensional. Giving a profile every single power in the franchise is something that should require a CRT and what does or doesn't count needs to be clarified explicitly.

I also agree with this point too. If it was too obvious, those guidelines were not a thing. Although, I will wait Agnaa if he concedes or not.

 

[Antvasima]

Wait a minute. I and Agnaa obviously support the third suggestion (the one that Agnaa made).

 

[ImmortalDread]

Wait a minute. I and Agnaa obviously support the third suggestion (the one that Agnaa made).

He created second too. I will however fix it. No issues

 

[Agnaa]

I think our standards for giving every power in a verse are actually much simpler than our standards on things like Acausality, getting high tiers, and transduality.

But if I'm outvoted, then so be it.

 

[Antvasima]

You do not seem to be outvoted though. Your suggestion apparently currently has the most support here.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You do not seem to be outvoted though. Your suggestion apparently currently has the most support here.

I suppose he is referring to:

It is heavily suggested that before applying something like this, the user creates a Content Revision Thread in order for the evidence to be properly evaluated to avoid unnecessary issues.

I think our standards for giving every power in a verse are actually much simpler than our standards on things like Acausality, getting high tiers, and transduality.

I don't. People regularly struggle with what Acasual to use and what counts as higher dimensional. Giving a profile every single power in the franchise is something that should require a CRT and what does or doesn't count needs to be clarified explicitly.

This is an entirely different issue. Should we make it an obligation or optional?

 

[Antvasima]

Oh. I obviously also much prefer if CRTs are used before a massive number of powers are added to any pages.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya, and that's Qawsedf234's point. It should require a CRT, not to suggest it.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, agreed.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh. I obviously also much prefer if CRTs are used before a massive number of powers are added to any pages.

Not for adding them to pages, but creating new pages. Like when Fukurou Tsurubami was added to the site, the supporters knew that he qualified, so we didn't make a CRT about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So where would you suggest that we draw the line then?

 

[Agnaa]

Just have it be like 99% of abilities and tiers; they only need CRTs when changing existing profiles, not when creating new ones.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I am not sure. Inexperienced members spamming new pages for overpowered characters without any evaluation oversight seems like a bad idea.

 

[Agnaa]

I mean, has this sort of thing been an issue so far?

 

[Bobsican]

I recall we already require CRTs before making pages for verse-specific P&As, so straight up getting all P&As of another character/group or the whole verse should get even more scrutinity.

 

[Agnaa]

I see that as being because verse-specific P&As are their own dedicated pages, separate from the profiles, and some people were spamming them when they weren't needed.

And because, oftentimes, they'd be applied to verses that already exist, granting a bunch of characters additional powers with little discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

Omnipotence is absolutely not most of the cases. Most of them are just vague gods that created everything.

If you want a longer, more rambly introduction, that can be written without focusing on omnipotence.

"It is not rare in fiction that supreme beings exist which create the setting, or are otherwise the source of wide-spanning power systems.

This page outlines are criteria for deciding when such entities, and others like them, gain the abilities of a large number of characters in the setting, even without demonstrating those abilities themselves."

So is it fine if somebody applies the above text then?

I mean, has this sort of thing been an issue so far?

To a degree, yes, and I do not think that we should encourage or facilitate the creation of virtually inevitable future problems.

Also, is there anything else left to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

I would create this page, with the accepted changes to the introduction and requirement for CRTs, but I don't know which categories or infoboxes should be included.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd rather Agnaa to be the one applying the text changes when publishing the page to minimize misconceptions.

 

[Agnaa]

I can edit those text changes into the sandbox, if you wish.

 

[Bobsican]

Go ahead.

 

[Agnaa]

Done.

 

[Bobsican]

I see that as being because verse-specific P&As are their own dedicated pages, separate from the profiles, and some people were spamming them when they weren't needed.

And because, oftentimes, they'd be applied to verses that already exist, granting a bunch of characters additional powers with little discussion.

As for this, relying on a page meant to exclusively list P&As of characters with certain attributes in common isn't much different from citing another profile for these purposes TBH.

The latter reason also applies to this stuff, it's even easier to sneakily add to a new page "Has the powers of X group" than "X Physiology", especially as the latter requires a whole new page that can't just be also posted at the same time without prior corroboration (When adding new verses), so just asking users to make a CRT for this kind of stuff in a page wouldn't do any harm.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Agnaa

I have no opinion on the text modifications; if anything, I don't think it's worth fighting over minor text changes. I have my own vision of how those introductions should be concise yet understandable to outsiders.

We can now slowly begin the vote tally, ensuring that we have at least one last round of evaluation before official publishing. If you don't mind, please notify all staff members, including DT.

 

[Agnaa]

You already ran a tally a few weeks ago, that got widespread approval.

I think at this point, the page just needs to be made.

As I said, I'd rather not do so myself, since I don't know what categories and infoboxes would be appropriate.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Oh, a staff tally has already been created. I suppose I missed it. Apologies, I have been stressed these days, thus I forgot that. I only came here because I got notified when the draft was edited by you.

If you don't want to do it, I can take care of it once I am home or over the weekend (Friday).

On the other hand, we never received any evaluation from DT (OP). However, I suggest at least presenting it to him (he is quite active).

 

[Agnaa]

@DontTalkDT Do you have any thoughts on this draft, as of now?

 

[Antvasima]

The draft page seems good to me. Thank you to Dread and Agnaa for helping out.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@DontTalkDT

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@DontTalkDT

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked DontTalk to help us out here.