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What kind of powers are assume to work on Nonexistent beings unless proven otherwise?
1: Type 1
2. Type 2
1: Type 1
2. Type 2
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What kind of powers are assumed to work on Nonexisent beings.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
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Whatever the verse consider it to work, however, the most common is a specialised Non-Physical Interaction.
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- Thread starter
- #3
What about things like:
Fate hax
Causality
Probability
etc
Would these work?
Fate hax
Causality
Probability
etc
Would these work?
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Without feats suggesting it so I wouldn't say they are. Not really considering the types here, but it would be much more practical to not add resistances/immunities if the character isn't stated to have them.
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For type 1: Conceptual Manip Type 2 or 1 and/or feats
For type 2: Feats
For type 2: Feats
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Though, it's not common for there to be feats of FateHax, Causality and Probability working on Nonexistents.
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Is not common to see characters with that powers to interact between each other, and if they are, the verse follow their own definition of nonexistent.
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- Thread starter
- #8
Yeah but logically speaking.
Fate is basically "the actions someone/thing is bound to do". Whether it exists physically or not? Why would its fate be different? It's still bound to act like all other beings.
Fate is basically "the actions someone/thing is bound to do". Whether it exists physically or not? Why would its fate be different? It's still bound to act like all other beings.
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You cant fatehax something that doesnt exist tho, nor someone whose actions doesnt exist either. Thats why you usually needs feats or conceptual stuff to deal with them
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If a being doesn't exist on a Type 2 level but somehow exists within fate then it's contradictory. It shouldn't really exist in any capacity.
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- Thread starter
- #11
Actually, his body/soul do not exist. His actions still do. You can't touch him physically, but you should still be capable of affecting what he will do.
This is for type 1 btw. Type 2 is nonexistent on every level.
This is for type 1 btw. Type 2 is nonexistent on every level.
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"Such a character will exist as something beyond the normal scope of the physical and metaphysical worlds"
Metaphysical should apply to fate also.
"In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0"
Fate would be within 1 but not 0.
Metaphysical should apply to fate also.
"In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0"
Fate would be within 1 but not 0.
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- #13
Fate is not metaphysical. Soul is.
Fate is just a word we use to describe "the actions something will do in the future". No matter whether you lack a body or soul, your actions still remain just the same.
Fate is just a word we use to describe "the actions something will do in the future". No matter whether you lack a body or soul, your actions still remain just the same.
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NEP is pretty paradoxical, those characters always exist in someone way, most of the time is just intangibility + imperceptibility + amortality; if want to give them immunity to probability, fate and causality powers it needs feats to support it, or at least being resisten/immunte to the nature of the power (like magic for example).
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- #15
Precisely my point.
So nonexistence type 1 can be affected by stuff like time, causality, probability, fate etc?
So nonexistence type 1 can be affected by stuff like time, causality, probability, fate etc?
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Fate would be metaphysical. It is an abstract law governing existence which is what metaphysics are rather then regular physics which is the physical world rather then the abstract world. Maybe the page only meant souls though because it only gives that as an example anyway.
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Tbh as stupid as it sounds I would say nearly every power should be assumed to work until the verse shows something that suggests otherwise.
It's just the inherit problem with defining something in a paradox fashion: At that point you can't really reason anything about it anymore.
Of course, at the point it's shown that the non-existent entity is non-corporeal most basic powers cease being an option due to non-corporeality.
But yeah, whether type 1 or 2 I would say it's entirely case-by-case and I would default to no resistances (unless maybe a resistance to being killed by someone making you nonexistent directly, since they already are that...).
It's just the inherit problem with defining something in a paradox fashion: At that point you can't really reason anything about it anymore.
Of course, at the point it's shown that the non-existent entity is non-corporeal most basic powers cease being an option due to non-corporeality.
But yeah, whether type 1 or 2 I would say it's entirely case-by-case and I would default to no resistances (unless maybe a resistance to being killed by someone making you nonexistent directly, since they already are that...).
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- #18
Yes, but the thing is, being non-existent doesn't warrant that by default. Obviously if said non existent is specifically stated to lack fate then yes. Im talking about default assumptions.
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If fate is metaphysical, then a default nonexistent Type 1 should be unnafected by it
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What if a being exists outside time and space and transcended from 3D is still effect by FateHax?
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If your fatehax has enough range and is 4-D, yesElixirBlue said:
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Ok I agree it should be case by case. starting to become a troupe now
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Would say tha fate is esoteric, an "ascended" version of probability, and existing outside or space and time do not guarantee you to be immune to it.
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Eh, what fate exactly is is highly subjective and hence should be dependend on what exactly a fiction defines it to be.Antoniofer said:
It's another power that really has to be handeled case-by-case.
Of course you're right that hence there shouldn't be a guarantee to be immune to it, though.
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Something similar would apply to things like having Durability Negation and Resistance Negation. Let's just say: (A) is a being who has NEP and said character is Low 1-C, then (B) is just a (let's just say, again) a vampire hunter who has this two abilities and is aware of this kind of... "thing", but (B) is just High 7-A.
On one hand let's say that (B) has Quantum Manipulation. On the other hand (A) has Acausallity (Type 4) and Nigh-Invulnerability.
Just by "hurting" said being, (B) will not become Low 1-C, right?
On one hand let's say that (B) has Quantum Manipulation. On the other hand (A) has Acausallity (Type 4) and Nigh-Invulnerability.
Just by "hurting" said being, (B) will not become Low 1-C, right?
