Welp (Kefla upgrade to Low 2-C, DBS episode 116)

[Aeyu]

Kefla should be upgraded to Low 2-C, and the scans speak for themselves.

Basically, the first one is when Kefla goes SSJ2 to match Goku's UI power up, the second and third are Piccolo's comments about her powerup and how it stacks up to Goku's first display of UI, and the fourth pic is after Kefla uses all of her power, and Roshi comments that even UI Goku wouldn't be able to handle that amount of energy. So essentially, in terms of power, she's right beneath Goku (a lower end of Low 2-C) although she's not nearly as fast.

 

[Schnee_One]

Damn..........

 

[Aeyu]

Proof that Goku was in UI and that Whis/Beerus were concerned when Roshi was commenting about Kefla's final powerup:

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am fine with Low 2-C Kefla for her current form. Base likely isn't, though.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Even though it would look a bit silly, this'd probably only apply to SSJ2 Kefla, as her previous forms almost lost to SSJBKK.

The justification would be simple.

"Her strongest attack was stated to surpass Goku's first display of Ultra Instinct, and if it hit Goku in that form, it would kill him"

 

[Huesito88]

I'm agree with this, also rip CinCameron20 happiness because he was so glad that Kelfa wasn't low 2-C

 

[Aeyu]

Absolutely not, I fully agree. (In regards to her base form, @Ever and @Matt.) She should have a 3-A | 3-A | Low 2-C key, with these or similar explanations:

Universe level (Sent Universe Survival Saga Super Saiyan God Son Goku [who was capable of contending with Dyspo] flying with only a single punch. Noted to contain the combined total power of Caulifla and Kale, multiplied by "tens of times," as mentioned by Vados.) | Universe level (As a Super Saiya, she forced Super Saiyan Blue Goku to use Kaioke, and defeated him with a surprise attack to the head. Later, this form was described by Whis as acting as a catalyst similar to the SSJB Kaioken x20 Spirit Bomb which was the original basis for Goku's awakening of Ultra Instinct.) | Universe level+ (When fighting vs Ultra Instinct Goku, a confident Super Saiyan 2 Kefla stated she could "blow away an entire universe in one shot," and Piccolo commented that her power had surpassed the level that Goku had previously reached when fighting Jire. At her absolute maximum strength, it was stated that not even a more adept UI Goku would have been capable of surviving one of her blasts, although he was able to effortlessly dodge each of her attacks.)

Also, I think that Goku needs a notice under his Low 2-C key that makes note of the fact that he has gotten stronger, mastered UI to a greater degree, and was able to one-shot a full powered Kefla who he can also scale from.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

As I already posted elsewhere SSJ1 Kefla was compared to Goku's Spirit Bomb against Jiren. She's well beyond Kaioken Goku.

 

[Aeyu]

If I can have permission to add these to her profile, I can make the edits rather quickly, as well as generate honest and (rather) unbiased reasons for the reasoning behind her dura and speed feats. Does her omnidirectional blast count as an ability of any kind other than the ones we already know of (possibly One Hit Kill, since it was remarked not even UI Goku could survive if it by them?)

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

I'm confused, why would this not be considered an outlier? She didn't achieve a new form.

 

[Huesito88]

Ssj 2

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Which isn't a new form.

 

[Aeyu]

Yes she did, SSJ2

Also, when she attained said form:

 

[SuperDragoon978]

I'm confused, why would this not be considered an outlier? She didn't achieve a new form.

What? Yes she did. She used Super saiyan 2 in this episode.

 

[Huesito88]

It's a power up

 

[SuperDragoon978]

I swear people are way to quick to call outlier in regards to Kefla whenever she shows new feats.

 

[Antoniofer]

Problem is, upgrading Kefla to Low 2-C would increase Vegetto to Low 2-C, and then Fused Zamasu, then would be an inconsistence since, even being far stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta, they can still hold Zamasu, but both of them are far from Infinite, let alone a plane of existence.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it wouldn't upgrade neither of them to Low 2-C.

That's like saying Gotenks should be equal to Vegito since they are both Fusions.

 

[Megamangohan]

Problem is, upgrading Kefla to Low 2-C would increase Vegetto to Low 2-C, and then Fused Zamasu, then would be an inconsistence since, even being far stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta, they can still hold Zamasu, but both of them are far from Infinite, let alone a plane of existence.

Not really, remember SSj1 Cabba > Buu saga Vegetio

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

The thing is SS2 isn't a new form. It, like potara, has existed since DBZ. We would have to logically scale any Potara fusion like this, which is ridiculous. Whis also stated that her strength as a SS rivaled the TOP spirit bomb. The SS2 form doesn't exactly multiply one's strength by a very substantial amount.

 

[Antoniofer]

Considering that Kefla didn't defuse, is clearly that Vegetto's power esceed the potara's limit, meanwhile, the potara handled Kefla with no issue.

 

[The_Everlasting]

How in the world does Low 2-C Kefla upgrade Vegito?

 

[Aeyu]

Vegetto scaling to Infinite Zamasu is a whole different matter, since there was never anything that demonstrated that.

Kefla was able to fight UI Goku, and could have finished him if Goku weren't faster.

That's Low 2-C, not to mention Piccolo, Whis and Master Roshi's comments, as well as her own comments and the statement that together, they would blow everything away.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

So is SSJ2 Kefla above SSB Vegetto? That seems REALLY hard to believe.

 

[Aeyu]

The thing is SS2 isn't a new form. It, like potara, has existed since DBZ. We would have to logically scale any Potara fusion like this, which is ridiculous. Whis also stated that her strength as a SS rivaled the TOP spirit bomb. The SS2 form doesn't exactly multiply one's strength by a very substantial amount.

Except it was stacked on top of Berserk, so it doesn't necessarily HAVE to obey the same laws. Just because it was an SSJ2 form doesn't mean that it wasn't equal to UI, and no, we don't have to scale the other Potara Fusions as well.

 

[Schnee_One]

Feats are feats.

 

[Siegfried10]

Vegetto Blue should receive Powerscalig from Kefla SSJ2.

Vegetto defuse because of his huge power, Kefla didn't. Besides:

Goku Blue and Vegeta Blue > Caulifla SS2 and Kale SSJ whatever is called

 

[The_Everlasting]

It generally seems to be:

Angels > Jiren > Second UI Goku >= SSJ2 Kefla > First UI Goku > Infinite Zamasu >= Gods of Destruction.

That's the short version of the power hierarchy right now.

 

[Aeyu]

So is SSJ2 Kefla above SSB Vegetto? That seems REALLY hard to believe.

Except it's not SSJ2. It's SSJ2 + Berserk. Her hair and aura were both green, which is demonstrated in the above scans. It's like if an SSJG (whom Kale at her strongest is relative to) went Kale's SSJ2 (which was on par with SSJ2 Goku who had absorbed God into his base)

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Ok this is really confusing now. How can Kefla be beyond the Gods of Destruction?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Also, guys, Kefla becoming Low 2-C in SSJ2 is just something we need to suspend our disbelief on.

I guarantee that no fiction, especially something like Dragon Ball, sees a difference between 3-A and Low 2-C.

In situations like this, we just need to ignore the gap and accept the feats given.

 

[Aeyu]

Also, it was stated that Berserk SSJ2 had surpassed UI's original incarnation, which was already arguably >= Gods of Destruction. In the anime there is no indication of SSJB Vegetto being >= Beerus, even if it's "implied," and we don't scale from the manga. So until Vegetto appears again and shows better feats, no deal.

Also, I agree with Matt and Everlasting.

 

[Warren_Valion]

It generally seems to be:
Angels > Jiren > Second UI Goku >= SSJ2 Kefla > First UI Goku > Infinite Zamasu >= Gods of Destruction.

That's the short version of the power hierarchy right now.

I'm pretty sure the Gods of Destruction are quite a bit stronger than Infinite Zamasu.

 

[Aeyu]

Well, it's implied that even Beerus couldn't destroy Infinite Zamasu, even though his concern was far milder than what he displayed vs Jiren.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Vegito being weaker than Kefla makes no sense but Cabba being equal to basically BoG Super Saiyan God in base makes no sense either but it is what it is. We have to accept what the show lays out in terms of powerscaling even if its inconsistent.

 

[AguilaR101]

I disagree bcuz kefla sux ._.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well, it's implied that even Beerus couldn't destroy Infinite Zamasu, even though his concern was far milder than what he displayed vs Jiren.

Really? I always got the impression that he was more annoyed with Infinite Zamasu, then anything else.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

The issue is that the Potara Fusion's multiplier doesn't very based on Vados's statement. If Kefla is Low 2-C, Vegito Blue would definitely have to be considering both of Vegito's fusees are superior to either of Kefla's fusees. That is clearly ridiculous, which is why I disagree with upgrading her. The statements could be disregarded, since it can practically be classified as an outlier. If she achieved a new form, it would have been undertandable.

Edit: It was never stated to be a hybrid though, it was simply stated to be SS2.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Vegito being weaker than Kefla makes no sense but Cabba being equal to basically BoG Super Saiyan God in base makes no sense either but it is what it is. We have to accept what the show lays out in terms of powerscaling even if its inconsistent.

Cabba being above BOG saga SSG Goku is something I heavily disagree with so...no. Kefla being above Vegetto makes no logical sense.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Delta

ToP Goku and Vegeta >>>>> Future Trunks Saga Goku and Vegeta.

Kefla and Goku scale to ToP Goku

The simple answer is that Vegito isn't Low 2-C because he has no reason whatsoever to scale to Kefla. Unless he appears later, he's staying where he is.

Why is this a hard concept for people?