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Wednesday Downgrades cause I wanna ruin your fun (jk)

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Wednesday profile has some stuff I disagree with

Powers and Abilities:

"Social Influencing(Capable of masterfully manipulating others over the course of her investigation)"

Is she really? Like, she cracks the case and all but but it isn't through manipulation of others, it's through evidence gathering and shit. It's made a point in the show that she sucks with people.

"Stealth Mastery (Was able to escape her therapy session and break open a window without anyone noticing)"

She opened a window with a nail filer and vaulted through it. Silently, obviously, because opening a window like that isn't particularly loud. This doesn't even come close to stealth mastery. It isn't
even stealth proficiency or something like that. It's just knowing how to open a window with a nail filer.

"Summoning and Healing (Her necklace is a talisman made for conjuring spirits, which she can use to allow Goody Addams to pass through her and heal even fatal wounds)"

All well and good but we should specify that she can only use this once, and that she used it in the season finale, so any battles that take place after the end of S1 will have her without this abilty. The video showcasing this conveniently skips over the part where Goody says this.

Attack Potency / Striking Strength:

"Was able to easily take down a group of older teenagers singlehandedly with martial arts."

Wednesday doesn't do this through raw power, she beats them because she knows martial arts. Knowing martial arts doesn't make you 10-A.

"Squeezed someone's hand hard enough to crunch their bones."

That's technique, not power.

"Knocked Thornhill out with a kick."

KO'ing a debilitated person via curbstomp is not particularly impressive.

"Clashed her sword against another strike hard enough to shatter it."

Thought it was made pretty clear that Joseph was the one who swung his staff hard enough to shatter Wednesday's sword, she had no hand in it.

"Fought against and delivered the final blow against Joseph Crackstone"

She stabbed him in the heart which is literally his only friggin weakness.

Speed:

"Athletic level"

No reason to believe that she's anything more than Human level on foot. We should probably give her higher combat speed though because regular people can't even get a single hit on her nor block her attacks.

"Subsonic reaction speed (Moved quick enough to intercept an arrow aimed at Xavier)"

Get what they were going for but considering Crackstone turns the arrow around reeeeaaaal ****** slowly she totally saw it coming. As the Speed page says:

"Reaction speed is reacting to an attack that you don't know is going to happen, or at a very close range."

"(Can keep up in combat with Joseph Crackstone, who was telekinetically able to react to and stop a flying arrow in midair)

A: She loses. B: Their Reaction Speed needs not to be the same for the fight to end how it did. Joseph is physically stronger than her (He cracks her sword) so why should we assume that their Reaction Speed is equal?

"Lifting Strength: Unknown"

Man, just give her Average Human, there's nothing that contradicts it and it makes logical sense.

Durability:

"(Survived being slammed into a tree trunk by Tyler)"

One that's actually good! Yippee! I'm still skeptical. Realistically most people could survive this. It's not like she bangs her head on the trunk, just her back. Eh, I doubt it reaches 10-A, plus Tyler was running kinda slow if you ask me.

"(After an arrow was lodged in her shoulder, she pulled it out, and got right back up to continue her fight with Crackstone)"

This is a stamina feat, not a durability feat.

Standard Equipment / Optional Equipment:

Her having the talisman as this is fine, but she only uses the sword in the finale. She has one hidden in her umbrella though, which she still only uses in this one scene. Also the fencing sword which is rarely used.

The bow and arrow isn't even hers, it's Xavier's and she uses it only once. Should it even be in her Optional Equipment?

Closest thing she has to Standard Equipment is, well, Thing. The living hand. Does he even count?
 
She is obviously athletic. Most of the feats really are martial shit, but they also need physical strength to work. Damn, Wed trains fencing and is a champion, this is more than enough to be considered athletic level

About the arrow thing, yeah, took 5 years to turn the arrow, but in the scene it is obvious that Wed only started to move when the arrow moved
 
"Social Influencing(Capable of masterfully manipulating others over the course of her investigation)"

Is she really? Like, she cracks the case and all but but it isn't through manipulation of others, it's through evidence gathering and shit. It's made a point in the show that she sucks with people.
I'd argue that she still has some good SI showings. She tricks Tyler and Enid into going to the spooky house with her, convinces the police to release her father from prison, successfully gets Xavier arrested (she was wrong, but still managed to do so), and lures Ms. Thronhill into a trap that gets her to confess to the headmaster. Idk if this is enough, but its something?

"Stealth Mastery (Was able to escape her therapy session and break open a window without anyone noticing)"

She opened a window with a nail filer and vaulted through it. Silently, obviously, because opening a window like that isn't particularly loud. This doesn't even come close to stealth mastery. It isn't
even stealth proficiency or something like that. It's just knowing how to open a window with a nail filer.
She has this, which is a much better showing of SM. She disappears from Tyler's line of sight, as he's watching her, and appears behind him two seconds later.
All well and good but we should specify that she can only use this once, and that she used it in the season finale, so any battles that take place after the end of S1 will have her without this abilty.
Agreed completely, though I think we do allow characters to use "one-time only" moves in Vs. Threads.
Knowing martial arts doesn't make you 10-A.
Using martial arts to take down a group of people larger than you is a pretty solid 10-A feat imo. Yes, she outskills them, but she was also clearly doing damage.
"Knocked Thornhill out with a kick."

KO'ing a debilitated person via curbstomp is not particularly impressive.

"Clashed her sword against another strike hard enough to shatter it."

Thought it was made pretty clear that Joseph was the one who swung his staff hard enough to shatter Wednesday's sword, she had no hand in it.

"Fought against and delivered the final blow against Joseph Crackstone"

She stabbed him in the heart which is literally his only friggin weakness.
This all makes sense though. Probably worth keeping as supporting feats?
Crackstone turns the arrow around reeeeaaaal ****** slowly
Agreed completely
Man, just give her Average Human, there's nothing that contradicts it and it makes logical sense.
Agreed here too
Durability:
She also has this, which would probably be 10-A
The bow and arrow isn't even hers, it's Xavier's and she uses it only once. Should it even be in her Optional Equipment?
Yes. She uses it in the final battle, and its pretty important for the scene
Thing can go under Standard Equipment, however also deserves his own profile. He has feats of his own
 
She tricks Tyler and Enid into going to the spooky house with her,
Lying to people isn't all that hard. And even when they follow her into that creepy ass place it's not because she is a master of social skills, they each have their own reasons. Tyler is the monster so it makes sense for him to follow her, he wanted to stop her because she was getting clues to solve the mystery. And Enid didn't really have much of a choice, the other option was to stay alone in a place that terrified her.
convinces the police to release her father from prison, successfully gets Xavier arrested (she was wrong, but still managed to do so)
That's just presenting compelling evidence for why a person commited / didn't commit a crime.
She has this, which is a much better showing of SM. She disappears from Tyler's line of sight, as he's watching her, and appears behind him two seconds later.
Agreed, SM can stay.
Using martial arts to take down a group of people larger than you is a pretty solid 10-A feat imo. Yes, she outskills them, but she was also clearly doing damage.
They're larger than her but that's only because she's small. Plus she doesn't even KO any of them or seriously harm them, she just knocks them down. And like, yeah of course she was causing damage, 10-B's can harm other 10-B's. What I'm trying to say is, taking down some 17 year olds isn't 10-A just because she's short.
This all makes sense though. Probably worth keeping as supporting feats?
Thornhill one is alright I guess but I'm skeptical about the other two. First, Crackstone breaks her sword, she doesn't do shit, and second, killing someone by attacking them in their only weak point is not that amazing a feat but I suppose there's nothing wrong with it.
She also has this, which would probably be 10-A
Def better than the one in her profile but it still doesn't seem unreasonable, to me, for a regular person to survive this. Then again, I personally don't have much experience with slamming myself or other people into trees.
Yes. She uses it in the final battle, and its pretty important for the scene
Nah, Xavier uses the bow in the final battle and then dips, Wed doesn't even touch it. Or maybe you're talking about the sword? She uses that one specifically in the finale but Standard Equipment is supposed to be stuff that the characters will have on their person the vast majority of the time, and the sword doesn't really qualify. The umbrella with the hidden sword probably can, though.
 
Most of the feats really are martial shit, but they also need physical strength to work.
She's just kicking them in the face (which is a pretty easy way to knock a person down) or knocking them into each other. None of these require you to be in great physical shape to do, just being skilled is enough.
Damn, Wed trains fencing and is a champion, this is more than enough to be considered athletic level
Fencing is a physically demanding sport but you don't need to be ripped to be good at it.
 
"(Can keep up in combat with Joseph Crackstone, who was telekinetically able to react to and stop a flying arrow in midair)

A: She loses. B: Their Reaction Speed needs not to be the same for the fight to end how it did. Joseph is physically stronger than her (He cracks her sword) so why should we assume that their Reaction Speed is equal?
I don’t really get this part. If she kept up with him in close range combat (which she apparently did) isn’t that enough to say she’s comparable? Losing doesn’t negate that.
 
She's just kicking them in the face (which is a pretty easy way to knock a person down) or knocking them into each other. None of these require you to be in great physical shape to do, just being skilled is enough.
She is clearly physically stronger than two of them and apparently managed to dislocate the arm of one. Also, I was not referring to just this feat, but overall
Fencing is a physically demanding sport but you don't need to be ripped to be good at it.
Who the **** said that you need to be ripped to be athletic. You just need to be strong. Are you gonna tell me that runners arent athletic because they just run and aren't ripped? Just like 90% of other sports, fencing needs to train the body
 
She's 100% agile and acrobatic but these don't directly correlate to a person being able to punch harder
Well being fast allows you to hit harder
Slowly put an apple on my head, it won't hurt me.
Chuck an apple at my head and it's gonna hurt.
Actually wait, what's the argument here?
 
Who the **** said that you need to be ripped to be athletic. You just need to be strong. Are gonna tell that runners arent athletic because they just run and aren't ripped? Just like any other sport, fencing needs to train the body
If we're talking about professional runners then sure, those guys are 10-A because it is literally their job to be in shape. A 16 yo girl that practices fencing as a hobby surely isn't in the same category as someone like Usain Bolt.

Like, there's gotta be a middle ground. Unfit human << Fencing / Running track as a hobby << Actual, honest to God Olympic athletes.
 
Well being fast allows you to hit harder
Slowly put an apple on my head, it won't hurt me.
Chuck an apple at my head and it's gonna hurt.
Actually wait, what's the argument here?
What I'm tryna say is that I don't think that her kicking people with fancy martial arts fuckery should put her an entire tier above regular people. She's like, in the middle of 10-B and 10-A but still 10-B, at least that's how I see it.
 
What I'm tryna say is that I don't think that her kicking people with fancy martial arts fuckery should put her an entire tier above regular people. She's like, in the middle of 10-B and 10-A but still 10-B, at least that's how I see it.
..So High 10-B?
 
A 16 yo girl that practices fencing as a hobby surely isn't in the same category as someone like Usain Bolt.
Wed definitely does not treat fencing as just a hobby but as something serious. The mf wanted to kill herself after losing a fight. In addition, to perfect fencing, you need to build muscle

I'm not saying she's Olympic level or any shit, I'm just saying she's a person with an athletic body. The fact that Wed is young in the series doesn't disprove anything. I literally have a gym buddy who looks like a 30 year old ******* adult training but is only 17 years old
 
Wed definitely does not treat fencing as just a hobby but as something serious.
Fair, she's pretty extreme
The mf wanted to kill herself after losing a fight.
Don't take this as me doubting you at all or me tryna be an asshole I just fr can't remember this happening at all and I'm too lazy to open up Netflix but it seems in character tbh so I'm fine taking your word for it
I'm not saying she's Olympic level or any shit, I'm just saying she's a person with an athletic body. The fact that Wed is young in the series doesn't disprove anything. I literally have a gym buddy who looks like a 30 year old ******* adult training but is only 17 years old
I agree with you, but putting her in 10-A for being athletic is implying that she's Olympic level because that's where real ass Olympic athletes are tier-wise
 
I hope Wed sells a lot of marijuana next season to pay for the treatment of her lack of vitamin D. She is really good with plants anyway so all will be fine
 
Anyways, sorry for the delay. Is there anything from here that has been agreed upon enough for it to be applied?
 
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